EPTIn general you shouldnt be playing a dt rush without any detection anyways, you wont win the game because you have 1 more dt, you will win the game though when u completely deny his dt's from doing damage.
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 57
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
In general you shouldnt be playing a dt rush without any detection anyways, you wont win the game because you have 1 more dt, you will win the game though when u completely deny his dt's from doing damage. | ||
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LeafBlower
United States115 Posts
http://drop.sc/323770 I did what I thought was an insane amount of dmg at the start, killing 11 workers with my oracle and getting my expo relatively early. I guess I should have attacked with chargelot/storm after holding off his first drops, but I'm always scared to move out vs a terran with medivacs. Late game I just don't know how to engage terrans. They just sit next to a planetary while dropping, and I feel like I'm always attacking into a concave.. Any tips on how to force good engagements? I guess I could try warp prism drops or something to make him split up his army... I just need any general help on late game pvt since I suck at it really bad D: | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
So from reading the OP, it appears that 1 gate expands into tech into 2 more gates are much safer than say a 3 gate or 2 gate robo expand because the faster the nexus, the faster the purify. So if I scout what looks like a 4 gate, I'll drop a robo and 2 more gates and defend, but if I scout some sort of tech expand or tech + gateway push, its best to go 1 gate/core, expand, tech, 2 more gates ? So a general opening vs some sort of expand (obviously this would be if I wasn't getting attacked) would look like gateway > nexus > tech > 3 total gates > 5 gates > additional tech (robo bay or twilight) + forge > 7 gates or additional robo/SG > expand > extra forge + whatever tech I don't have(not SG if I didn't open SG)? Also with a 1g FE, would I go for more stalker based than zealot / sentry assuming I am trying to hold my nat ramp if I scout pressure? Also, it appears that blink and especially archons have a whole lot more utility than WoL. If I open robo expand against some sort of stargate expand, I'll add a twilight for blink and archons, but what do I look for to let me know when i need gates 4+5 and 6+7? If I open 1 gate > expand > robo > 3 gates total, and scout a stargate with some sort of gateway pressure, should I cut immortal production entirely and twilight for blink and add on gates? Or should I continue to pump immortals if it appears he is going to go for a gateway + VR based attack? Also, if my opponent is going for some sort of chargelot archon, I want to wall, get a few colossi then expand when I have 2-3 right? Also, anyone link me to something which says which maps favor which types of openings? I OP has a few examples and I can take an educated guess for most, but it'd be nice to see everything. | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On April 15 2013 06:18 S7EFEN wrote: Diamond toss - having a TON of trouble in PVP in comparison to other MUs. Few questions, I apologize if there is a tad bit of redundancy, trying to understand PvP a bit more. So from reading the OP, it appears that 1 gate expands into tech into 2 more gates are much safer than say a 3 gate or 2 gate robo expand because the faster the nexus, the faster the purify. So if I scout what looks like a 4 gate, I'll drop a robo and 2 more gates and defend, but if I scout some sort of tech expand or tech + gateway push, its best to go 1 gate/core, expand, tech, 2 more gates ? So a general opening vs some sort of expand (obviously this would be if I wasn't getting attacked) would look like gateway > nexus > tech > 3 total gates > 5 gates > additional tech (robo bay or twilight) + forge > 7 gates or additional robo/SG > expand > extra forge + whatever tech I don't have(not SG if I didn't open SG)? Also with a 1g FE, would I go for more stalker based than zealot / sentry assuming I am trying to hold my nat ramp if I scout pressure? Also, it appears that blink and especially archons have a whole lot more utility than WoL. If I open robo expand against some sort of stargate expand, I'll add a twilight for blink and archons, but what do I look for to let me know when i need gates 4+5 and 6+7? If I open 1 gate > expand > robo > 3 gates total, and scout a stargate with some sort of gateway pressure, should I cut immortal production entirely and twilight for blink and add on gates? Or should I continue to pump immortals if it appears he is going to go for a gateway + VR based attack? Also, if my opponent is going for some sort of chargelot archon, I want to wall, get a few colossi then expand when I have 2-3 right? Also, anyone link me to something which says which maps favor which types of openings? I OP has a few examples and I can take an educated guess for most, but it'd be nice to see everything. dont expand off of one gate w/o at least some kind of tech. You'll get murdered by anything aggressive and there are ways to hide the intent to attack. Two gate into 5 stalker rush is still pretty common from what ive seen (im mid masters in na) and its still effective vs really fast expands or really fast tech rushes that neglect sentries. If you're defending your ramp, you still want sentries despite the mscl; just make sure your units arent wandering near the ramp where the stalkers can pick you off. As for robo expands, when/if you scout stargate pressure, play defensively on your ramp. In wol, the stargate/gateway pressure would do pretty good even vs a defensive robo player especially if they got an immortal out. But with the new msc and nexus cannon you should comfortably hold any aggression off of one base. You dont want immortals and you will need to go twilight council. You can go blink but VR's are pretty effective with ground support vs blink stalkers, so scout actively for VR count and if hes adding chargelots/archons. If the opponent is going chargelot archon(which is usually coupled with VR's nowadays), i dont recommend collossus anymore. Too much gas and later on the colossus will be useless vs the eventual air army your opponent is going to have. If you are at least matching his unit composition with a little less army supply, a wall+nexus cannon should be enough to hold. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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SteveNick
United States304 Posts
I'm doubtful if blink is defendable with 1gate expo on all maps though. I definitely would think that on a map like Akilon Wastes the blink all-in would be an easy win regardless of what kind of defense is used. Other maps like Newkirk, Neo, maybe even Daybreak would present significant difficulty in holding off a blink stalker attack. You can get an immortal out to fight against it but there's not a whole lot of immortal micro to be done if he has blink. | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
On April 15 2013 06:46 recklessfire wrote: l. You can go blink but VR's are pretty effective with ground support vs blink stalkers, so scout actively for VR count and if hes adding chargelots/archons. If the opponent is going chargelot archon(which is usually coupled with VR's nowadays), i dont recommend collossus anymore. Too much gas and later on the colossus will be useless vs the eventual air army your opponent is going to have. If you are at least matching his unit composition with a little less army supply, a wall+nexus cannon should be enough to hold. So what unit wise should I aim for with a charge/archon followup to VR +gateway pressure? | ||
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SteveNick
United States304 Posts
Blink stalkers aren't -great- against VR, but with really good control and probably a little bit of an error by your opponent, it could be plausible to win. It's really hard to micro blink stalkers vs. charged VR due to how fast they die, but the advantage the blink stalkers have is that they can bait out the charge, and then attack in the 40 seconds that the charge is down. I've seen it before, lost to it before with my own VRs, but I wouldn't try it at home unless you're in a game and already invested in blink stalkers and don't have time to add in HTs for some reason. | ||
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texmix
United States106 Posts
On April 15 2013 03:04 LeafBlower wrote: Can someone watch this replay and give me some tips on how to improve? http://drop.sc/323770 I did what I thought was an insane amount of dmg at the start, killing 11 workers with my oracle and getting my expo relatively early. I guess I should have attacked with chargelot/storm after holding off his first drops, but I'm always scared to move out vs a terran with medivacs. Late game I just don't know how to engage terrans. They just sit next to a planetary while dropping, and I feel like I'm always attacking into a concave.. Any tips on how to force good engagements? I guess I could try warp prism drops or something to make him split up his army... I just need any general help on late game pvt since I suck at it really bad D: Masters protoss here - there are 4 issues: 1. You didn't transfer probes from main to natural at a good rate. At 9m 51s your main had 23 probes mining minerals while your natural was still not to 16 on minerals. 2. You had a bad supply lock at 42/42 then made too many pylons (to be at about 42/68). If you had made a 3rd or more tech instead of surplus pylons would have been more efficient. 3. After your 3rd was up, probe production had too many gaps before the 3rd was saturated. You did good job balancing probes at main & natural from this point though. 4. This is the least significant, but feedback instead of storm may have been better in stopping some of his drops. Overall his drops didn't do much, but his lack of supply blocks and more aggressive timing in taking his 3rd made his macro spiral up faster. | ||
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accaris
98 Posts
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
On April 15 2013 21:23 accaris wrote: What are some good ways to get back into the game when zerg is on 5 bases and I'm on 3? I felt completely contained, because he just re-maxed every time I pushed out, and my losses were snowballing. I tried to send DTs to his expansions, but they just died to lings without really accomplishing anything. Unless you have a killer deathball with good upgrades, and are about to do some damage you are probably already dead | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On April 15 2013 21:23 accaris wrote: What are some good ways to get back into the game when zerg is on 5 bases and I'm on 3? I felt completely contained, because he just re-maxed every time I pushed out, and my losses were snowballing. I tried to send DTs to his expansions, but they just died to lings without really accomplishing anything. Just sending things somewhere won't really accomplish much. If you're in that situation you're likely already dead. You can try to come back through harassment but doing that on one front won't be enough. Which means you have to play aggressively. Move out with your army while doing warp prism harrass but don't take a direct fight. Threaten to engage the zerg army so he won't pull his units back allowing you to do damage with your harrass. Play positional, snipe bases when you can but don't fight. Meanwhile try to expand yourself and keep your tech going. A good zerg however will just mass spine up and smash his army into yours, then insta remax. | ||
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TwilightRain
Germany351 Posts
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Valestrum
United States246 Posts
On April 15 2013 23:34 TwilightRain wrote: In which matchup do DT openings or FE into DT work best? Seems like between oracle and robo openings being popular it's not really an option in PvP. DT opening used to work very well for me PvZ. PvT is usually an automatic no due to orbital commands, and PvP is very hit with the majority being miss seeing as they get either a robo or stargate with an oracle on one base. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
Questions: 1. Is there any weakness to this build? I actually feel safe doing this gate expand compared to others 2. What are other aggression options early game off gate expand that are better? i like that you WILL punish a greedy zerg with this build for build reference: | ||
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pasimito
Poland5 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Avean
Norway449 Posts
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LeafBlower
United States115 Posts
On April 16 2013 02:25 Avean wrote: Just encountered the most annoying attack from zerg ive ever seen. Zerg masses out swarm hosts which is ok to handle when you know theyre coming. Blink ready but this is one zerg that has evolved. He brings with him 15 overlords which then pukes out creep so he can build spore crawlers. So he keep his swarm hosts within a bunch of spore crawlers so all my observers die as soon as i near the swarm hosts. I have no clue how to approach an attack like that. I'm not really sure why you would go blink vs swarm hosts. If you knew it was coming, you should try to be active on the map so you don't allow him to get set up. Try to push out of your base to the least make him root them on his side of the map and inch slowly forward, which will allow you to get some colossus out in time. If he does get set up outside your base, try to have a proxy pylon on the map and warp in 2 cycles worth of zealots and send them straight towards his natural. You can also do this with a warp prism. He will either pull back his stuff to defend, or you kill his base. Another thing I've been trying with pretty good success is to just walk completely around the swarm hosts, and time it perfectly so you attack from behind while a wave has just been sent to your base. This completely catches them off guard. Just gotta be careful with your obs so it doesn't fly into a spore/overseer with queen support. | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
Edit: whats the consensus around gateway expands on smaller maps to poke and force lings/spines early game? | ||
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