EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 49
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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KingLumps
74 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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DrSayius
12 Posts
Just a quick query with respect to phoenix vs muta battles. Should I be getting armour upgrades first or focusing on attack upgrades? In the GSL last week, Artosis mentioned that in muta wars its best to get the armour first due to glaives. Does this same logic apply or is there something peculiar to phoenix vs muta that makes attack upgrades better? Secondly, does going for a land based composition with phoenix support make shield upgrades more of a priority? | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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SteveNick
United States304 Posts
On April 09 2013 10:46 DrSayius wrote: Gold Protoss, here. Just a quick query with respect to phoenix vs muta battles. Should I be getting armour upgrades first or focusing on attack upgrades? In the GSL last week, Artosis mentioned that in muta wars its best to get the armour first due to glaives. Does this same logic apply or is there something peculiar to phoenix vs muta that makes attack upgrades better? Secondly, does going for a land based composition with phoenix support make shield upgrades more of a priority? I don't know the exact context of whatever Artosis said, but you definitely want air attack over air armour in phoenix vs. muta. With proper micro the mutalisks shouldn't be able to attack the phoenixes, so the only factor upgrades play is in how fast the mutalisks die. | ||
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LeeDawg
United States1306 Posts
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On April 09 2013 13:15 LeeDawg wrote: how do i hold off a proxy reaper rush? just got raped by a proxy reaper. I chronoed my stalker and added a second gate, but he just microed my lone stalker to death with 3 reapers did you get the msc out? | ||
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
Are Tempests any good maybe? To snipe Vikings and help my Colossi survive? | ||
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ThaReckoning
United States197 Posts
On April 09 2013 18:55 FireMonkey wrote: a 4gate with msc is too late, you can still do normal 4gate and hope he goes mothership core early on so you can win. I dont know if its just me cause im in diamond, but i've found that 4 gating works really well when they go mothership core early on. In my experience, if you 4gate and they go MSC, you've almost certainly lost. It's really hard to get pylons inside a player's base with the MSC there. | ||
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FetTerBender
Germany1393 Posts
On April 09 2013 23:36 rEalGuapo wrote: Has anyone found a solution to ghost Viking, I read the OP but it isn't quite that simple. 20 upgraded vikings rip through Colossi fast enough to kill 6 of them by the time the Vikings die, afterwards 200 supply of Gateway units will lose to 40 Ghosts and 10 Marauders hard -.- Are Tempests any good maybe? To snipe Vikings and help my Colossi survive? Tempest are great if you want to force the T into action. In a way you give him a "fight or flee" command, due to the great range of the tempest. On the other hand, every tempest you build means mineral-wise -1 colossus, so you have to be careful not to go too temp-heavy. 2-3 are a great way to focus down Vikings imho. | ||
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ShaolinZorg
Belgium47 Posts
In my experience, if you 4gate and they go MSC, you've almost certainly lost. It's really hard to get pylons inside a player's base with the MSC there. how do you effectively manage the pressure of a 4 gater , let's suppose you got 3 gates and MSC, are you suppose to hold and increase number of gates (as 4 gater will likely increase his gates) ? expand behind ? | ||
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ThaReckoning
United States197 Posts
On April 10 2013 00:38 ShaolinZorg wrote: how do you effectively manage the pressure of a 4 gater , let's suppose you got 3 gates and MSC, are you suppose to hold and increase number of gates (as 4 gater will likely increase his gates) ? expand behind ? I'm usually planning to DT anyways, so all you do is keep the forward pylons from going down + def with MSC until DT's are out, and then you usually autowin. Edit: It works the same with any tech path, though. You hold out for blink or immortals or to put an oracle in his mineral line or voids or whatever, the theory is all the same. Use 3g + msc to deny pylons and defend, then beat him with a gas advantage. | ||
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
On April 09 2013 18:43 HeyJude wrote: I checked the OP and don't see anything about how to execute a 4-gate with MSC. I've tried various builds and it seems like if I'm able to get out an MSC it means cutting the early stalker(s) so I have to add a 2nd gas, but then I end up with loads of extra gas. If someone could post or link a replay with a well executed 4-gate with MSC I'd appreciate it. So does anyone have a decent, game-tested 4-gate w/ MSC? I guess if I went double zealot for my first 2 units instead of a stalker it could work, but then I'd lose the harass factor. ***and if I open 4gate and a terran opens fast widow mines/drop that's basically a build order loss right? Or is there some way I can recover? Really sucks that a mine one-shots stalkers  | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On April 10 2013 02:01 HeyJude wrote: So does anyone have a decent, game-tested 4-gate w/ MSC? I guess if I went double zealot for my first 2 units instead of a stalker it could work, but then I'd lose the harass factor. ***and if I open 4gate and a terran opens fast widow mines/drop that's basically a build order loss right? Or is there some way I can recover? Really sucks that a mine one-shots stalkers That's the downside to that build which is why you don't see many do that build...its just overall bad...its better if you do a tech/Msc/gateway allin instead if you so choose to | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On April 10 2013 00:38 ShaolinZorg wrote: how do you effectively manage the pressure of a 4 gater , let's suppose you got 3 gates and MSC, are you suppose to hold and increase number of gates (as 4 gater will likely increase his gates) ? expand behind ? Never let him get up your ramp and the next option is up to you what tech you want to go to and expand behind it | ||
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Kinon
Romania207 Posts
The build in question is ffe-->stargate-->4 gate pressure-->3 base push. The replay I got from Desrow, so it should work very well at my level (diamond). This is the first game: http://drop.sc/321244 It went really good for me, that's my usual play. I cut quite a lot of probes, but I don't think it's that bad. Should have got a 4th, but I was convinced he wouldn't survive my push. Second game: http://drop.sc/321243 This game was tricky: - I tried to stall his natural, but I think I overextended and my forge was too late. - he slipped 2 lings in my main and delayed my 4 gate pressure by about a minute. - I killed his third and a ton of overlords, but his counterpush was realy damn good and I lost my third. - My colossus was late, but his macro was still too good in my opinion. So, here are my questions: - Do you have anything to add/change to my build? - Usually after the push I go Colossus tech, get 2 void rays+ MSC, 1 immortal and whatever I can warp in. In that last replay this wasn't enough, should I go more sentry heavy? Or what composition? - Any general feedback? Thanks in advance, gl hf! | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On April 10 2013 01:32 ThaReckoning wrote: I'm usually planning to DT anyways, so all you do is keep the forward pylons from going down + def with MSC until DT's are out, and then you usually autowin. Edit: It works the same with any tech path, though. You hold out for blink or immortals or to put an oracle in his mineral line or voids or whatever, the theory is all the same. Use 3g + msc to deny pylons and defend, then beat him with a gas advantage. Just to add to this, if you are going immortals or voids you can hold with only 2 gates. The photon overcharge is really that good against a 4 gate. I tend to trade better than 2:1 against 4 gates now. Typically I defend their attack, kill the pylons and counter with my superior tech while expanding behind it. But it does not really matter as you already won. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Firstly, I was kinda tilted playing because I had just played 2 PvPs before this game and lost both so I wasn't playing 100% but still mostly there. I goofed up my wall but it wouldn't have made a difference (usually the forge is near the ramp with the opening on the other side of the natural). The build is a crazy fast roach/ling all-in that looks like a standard hatch into speed opening. My initial scout probe died so I went to send another and it was already hitting. I know I was supply blocked when it hit, but the slight delay to my voidray again would not have helped. He did too much damage (which is the same thing that happened on the KR versions of this too. It does a ton of damage really fast). However, this Zerg's rendition isn't nearly as good as the previously mentioned one from the Korean server. The other one opened with this low-drone, mass unit attack but afterward didn't make more units but instead droned and got a third behind it, making it much stronger because it still messed me up a ton but wasn't nearly as all-in. Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/321260 Also, 2 people have been promoted to Master after playing me today. Kinda demoralizing hahaha. | ||
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