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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
On April 08 2013 02:34 SharkBait wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 19:48 Phantasmiq wrote:
What is solution in PvP to mass air? I tried going ground, I had like 25 HT with almost full energy lot of archons and stalkers I think 3/3 upgrades against sky toss with mass carriers and void rays with 2/2. I was casting storm all the time but it did absolutely no damage. I am not kidding, it didnt killed anything, I dropped so many storms and just lowered the shields so what the hell is the problem? I can post replay if u want to see carriers being immune to quadrilion storms I'm not sure if you're exaggerating, but 25 ht seems a little excessive. Imo, the solution to mass carrier void is similar to dealing with infestor broodlord back in wol, which is to make sure that they don't get there; or if they do get there, that you're so far ahead you can throw army after army at them and overun them with sheer numbers.
Well I think I had around 20 HTs it may have been little much but I expected storms to be stacking dmg which is false so that was probably the problem. Anyways thx for help
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I'm starting to think it's a better idea to open robo instead of stargate in pvz and then chrono boosting an observer to get down to his base asap to see if he went muta
if I spot spire, is it too late to throw up reactive stargates?
I've been going stargate, but the fact that you have to transition to robo/collosi vs swarm host/hydra just feels like it is setting me massively behind his tech path and that im always playing catch up.
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Italy12246 Posts
Yeah most people agree you can react to a spire with phoenix now.
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Northern Ireland25071 Posts
I'd use a hallucinated phonenix to scout ahead of an obs personally. One thing you get is a guaranteed scout, phoenixes also move that bit faster so you get a
I tend to send phoenixes to scout tech, and obs to patrol attack paths and help me clear creep.
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On April 08 2013 03:45 shivver wrote:
I'm starting to think it's a better idea to open robo instead of stargate in pvz and then chrono boosting an observer to get down to his base asap to see if he went muta
if I spot spire, is it too late to throw up reactive stargates?
I've been going stargate, but the fact that you have to transition to robo/collosi vs swarm host/hydra just feels like it is setting me massively behind his tech path and that im always playing catch up.
vs 2 hatch then yeah robo before stargate is safer (since you will be in a much better spot vs swarm host timing and can still make reactive stargates vs 2base muta). If it's 3hatch then you have a bit more time before he can get his lair and tech so you should be able to go stargate first and add a robo afterwards and scout with hallucinate if you need to.
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Hi guys!
I'm a Gold level player on NA server.
Lately, I've been practising some builds for each match up.
MC Stargate in PvT, FFE in PvZ...
However I'm a bit lost in PvP...
The only thing that seems to work fairly well is 4 Gate w/ MsC...
(probably because my opponents tend to do a lot of errors)
I'd like to find a build more macro oriented, because I don't feel like I'm making progress with 4 Gate.
I've seen LiquidHerO do something very similar to this build in his stream:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=350993
...but adapted to HotS (Msc, 1 Oracle harass, blabla)
How does this fit in the current metagame ?
I could really use some advices on this 
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I am having a lot of troubles with PvZ versus mutas, or potential mutas (NA diamond protoss).
I open stargate, 1 oracle and then 4 phoenixes. When I scout the spire, I chronoboost more phoenix (1 stargate still) and go fleet beacon for the range upgrade. However, some zergs have made a spire but not mutalisks, so I get crushed by hydralisks, swarm hosts, or basically whatever they use. If I wait to see mutalisks, then I don't get enough phoenixes and I get crushed.
I'm mostly ok if I commit to phoenixes and they commit to mutalisks. However, I'd still like some help with my phoenix micro. Even with the range upgrade, the mutalisks can fly away, and then suddenly turn and kill some of my phoenixes. Normally my micro is not terrible, but when mutalisk numbers of 30+ sem to kill me if the zerg does a little micro, even with my 12+range phoenixes. Or at least kill enough phoenixes that I can't keep up with the next wave. At the same time, I see pros lose their range phoenixes to mutalisks. Should I be playing it differently, like trying to keep the mutalisk numbers low?
Also, what do I do if they add corruptors to their mutalisk force to kill my phoenixes?
Thanks for any help!
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how do i beat a 2 base nydus worm swarmhost all in, I scouted lack of third and the increased number of queens then when i got 'lots into his base i saw the worm so i knew he was doing but just to confirm it i saw he had a swarmhost. I don't know how to deal with it, i've lost to it twice in the passed before too. I OP says how to deal with them in a normal match but when they do this nydus worm rush crap i can't exactly do anything. I got collosi and then he just came out of nowhere with 50000 corruptors. I'm not used to zerg's all ining me but i think based on the Bnet forums, zerg want to all in before protoss go air (which i dont do anyway).
So as i said i scouted the lack of third and increased queen count for that time frame as well as the worm/swarmhost...I tried to killt he worm to buy some more time, not that it would've helped much. and i went collosi i had no time to go storm. and the last time i went blink stalker vs mass swarm host it went to base race and i had to micro against locusts with my last two stalkers and 2 obs.
I think this whole concept of free units is ridiculous. zerg and terran already traded well against protoss so why make them have 100% profit vs protoss now? thats just a little rant.
here's replay, please help me cause i can see this will be happening more often based on zerg forum posts.
http://drop.sc/319376
even with collosi i could never push forwards because the cool down for spawning locusts is way too short so that as soon as we kill 1 wave the next wave comes in and i have no time or anything to kill them,because of the damage taken from the previous wave by a FREE unit that does the best dps in the history of mankind. that is priced cheaper, just bout half the cost of a carrier which still requires minerals to get units from. /rant.
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On April 08 2013 13:55 Trfel wrote:
I am having a lot of troubles with PvZ versus mutas, or potential mutas (NA diamond protoss).
I open stargate, 1 oracle and then 4 phoenixes. When I scout the spire, I chronoboost more phoenix (1 stargate still) and go fleet beacon for the range upgrade. However, some zergs have made a spire but not mutalisks, so I get crushed by hydralisks, swarm hosts, or basically whatever they use. If I wait to see mutalisks, then I don't get enough phoenixes and I get crushed.
I'm mostly ok if I commit to phoenixes and they commit to mutalisks. However, I'd still like some help with my phoenix micro. Even with the range upgrade, the mutalisks can fly away, and then suddenly turn and kill some of my phoenixes. Normally my micro is not terrible, but when mutalisk numbers of 30+ sem to kill me if the zerg does a little micro, even with my 12+range phoenixes. Or at least kill enough phoenixes that I can't keep up with the next wave. At the same time, I see pros lose their range phoenixes to mutalisks. Should I be playing it differently, like trying to keep the mutalisk numbers low?
Also, what do I do if they add corruptors to their mutalisk force to kill my phoenixes?
Thanks for any help!
You should post a replay if you want the best possible advice.
The main thing to look for is how fast the zerg is going muta, whether its 2 base or 3 base makes quite a big difference. 2 base and you should turtle up pretty hard and when his mutas hit you crush them and try to pressure his third with zealots (while taking your own third). If he went for a later spire, unless you can crush the mutas before they get into high numbers (over ~10) with your initial 4-5 phoenix then you should get another stargate or you will get overwhelmed. If a zerg makes a spire and THEN makes a hydra den then they are being rather inefficient and since you opened phoenix you should notice that something strange is going on when the mutas are not coming. Since you have map control you should be scouting for a 4th base + additional tech buildings (like a hydra den) and things like double evo which indicates a ground-focused play from zerg. If you are afraid of losing your phoenix scouting for these things then you should have an observer near their base so you can keep track of what they are building (you can also use hallucinations depending on how much sentry energy you are comfortable sparing). You should have a robo anyway when playing a macro game vs zerg so it's just a matter of getting a robo bay and some more sentries/sim city to hold off the hydra timing. From there you are in a great spot to play a long-term game getting storm, void rays, and a 4th base.
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Thanks, that should help a lot! If I keep having problems, I'll post a replay.
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Austria24417 Posts
Just a small question.
Usually in WoL you saw people hide phoenixes in PvZ to get initial damage done almost guaranteed if the SG is unscouted. Nowadays it seems like people are always using their first phoenix to kill overlords, kind of like you used to do when you still got an initial voidray. Why did this change and what's the advantage of showing the phoenix to pick off 1/2 overlords? I got my own thoughts on it, just wanna hear it from someone smart.
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Anyone know the exact build for what hwangsin did on stream last night vs a Z? He went something like:
Gate, Gas, Core, MSC, move out w 1 zealot, 2 stalker, msc to force some spines while expanding, add 2 gates and somewhere here finally get WG research when have the gas for it, take 2nd, 3rd and 4th gases, Stargate, pump voidrays and transition into colossus.
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People have been telling me that 1 gate expo into robo into 3 gate is safe with the addition to photon overcharge. Ive been doing this all my pvt but i lost to a hellbat drop. Is this defendable with 1 gate expand >robo>2 gates or do i need to go 3 gates before robo?
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Italy12246 Posts
It should be defendable, please post a replay if you want more help.
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http://drop.sc/319448 Here is the replay.
This Terran may have been korean grandmaster because he went on massive winning streaks even in high master on kr and the only ones he lost was the ones he left right away but regardless I just wanto know if its defendable or not. I actually misread it for a widow mine drop so I made units at my main and my natural with 2 at each spot. I took the build order from creatorprime so I dont probe scout on 2 player maps to see gas or not but I use a very quick hallucination to make up for it. However even after look at my replay I dont see how I could have defended this without taking economic damage.
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On April 08 2013 15:37 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Just a small question.
Usually in WoL you saw people hide phoenixes in PvZ to get initial damage done almost guaranteed if the SG is unscouted. Nowadays it seems like people are always using their first phoenix to kill overlords, kind of like you used to do when you still got an initial voidray. Why did this change and what's the advantage of showing the phoenix to pick off 1/2 overlords? I got my own thoughts on it, just wanna hear it from someone smart.
Stargate openers are becoming increasingly common that many zergs are blindly putting up spores and extra queens even if they don't scout a stargate. There's really never an element of surprise anymore with phoenix, so you might as well not waste any time killing overlords with them.
On April 09 2013 00:10 Rickyvalle21 wrote:http://drop.sc/319448 Here is the replay. This Terran may have been korean grandmaster because he went on massive winning streaks even in high master on kr and the only ones he lost was the ones he left right away but regardless I just wanto know if its defendable or not. I actually misread it for a widow mine drop so I made units at my main and my natural with 2 at each spot. I took the build order from creatorprime so I dont probe scout on 2 player maps to see gas or not but I use a very quick hallucination to make up for it. However even after look at my replay I dont see how I could have defended this without taking economic damage.
robo -> 2 additional gates versus 2 additional gates -> robo had little to do with your loss.
- I'm not a big fan of blind sentry heavy openers, especially since fast medivac openers are becoming increasingly popular.
- You warped in zealots... to defend against hellbats? Why not stalkers?
- Your hallu scout confirmed a 1 base build, yet you continued to make probes. You should have cut probe production at that point and chrono'ed out gateway units.
- General reaction time/micro - as soon as you saw 2 medivacs enter your main you should have started running probes away, reinforced with the troops at your natural, used photon overcharge, and make an attempt to micro/save your sentries, but it took you too long to do all of that.
- Even after the first drop in your main, you were still ahead in worker count. Of course a 1 base build should be able to do economic damage to you, but it's definitely possible to minimize that damage and still come out ahead.
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On April 08 2013 13:55 Trfel wrote:
I am having a lot of troubles with PvZ versus mutas, or potential mutas (NA diamond protoss).
I open stargate, 1 oracle and then 4 phoenixes. When I scout the spire, I chronoboost more phoenix (1 stargate still) and go fleet beacon for the range upgrade. However, some zergs have made a spire but not mutalisks, so I get crushed by hydralisks, swarm hosts, or basically whatever they use. If I wait to see mutalisks, then I don't get enough phoenixes and I get crushed.
I'm mostly ok if I commit to phoenixes and they commit to mutalisks. However, I'd still like some help with my phoenix micro. Even with the range upgrade, the mutalisks can fly away, and then suddenly turn and kill some of my phoenixes. Normally my micro is not terrible, but when mutalisk numbers of 30+ sem to kill me if the zerg does a little micro, even with my 12+range phoenixes. Or at least kill enough phoenixes that I can't keep up with the next wave. At the same time, I see pros lose their range phoenixes to mutalisks. Should I be playing it differently, like trying to keep the mutalisk numbers low?
Also, what do I do if they add corruptors to their mutalisk force to kill my phoenixes?
Thanks for any help!
If it were me I would not build any more phoenix when I see the spire. I would instead build a fleet beacon and an extra stargate. If you see the mutas then make more phoenix. If you do not see the muta, start two tempests and then phoenix range. Cancel phoenix range if he does not go muta, cancel the tempests if he does go muta.
Between your phoenix, oracle and hallucinations you should be able to tell what units he is actually making.
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On April 07 2013 17:19 DrSayius wrote:
Gold level Protoss, here.
I have a question related to PvP: is there a proper counter to a 1 base collossus? Or does one just also need to tech to collosus asap?
For context, I mainly do a 1 gate, robo, 2nd gate, expand build so pumped out an immortals but ended up loosing. However, I think my problem may have just been not scouting it early enough (I didn't bother clicking on the warping in structure, thinking it was another gateway warping in for some reason) and the principle might be a good one.
In WoL I often held 1 base col pushes with 2 base immortal + void. It should be even easier in Hots. Just stop making probes and get as many voids and immortals out as you can (3 gases) and spend excess minerals on zealots. Should be an easy hold and an easy win to follow.
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Italy12246 Posts
You can't reactively tech to stargate vs 1base colossus.
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On April 09 2013 00:19 rsvp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 15:37 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Just a small question.
Usually in WoL you saw people hide phoenixes in PvZ to get initial damage done almost guaranteed if the SG is unscouted. Nowadays it seems like people are always using their first phoenix to kill overlords, kind of like you used to do when you still got an initial voidray. Why did this change and what's the advantage of showing the phoenix to pick off 1/2 overlords? I got my own thoughts on it, just wanna hear it from someone smart. Stargate openers are becoming increasingly common that many zergs are blindly putting up spores and extra queens even if they don't scout a stargate. There's really never an element of surprise anymore with phoenix, so you might as well not waste any time killing overlords with them. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:10 Rickyvalle21 wrote:http://drop.sc/319448 Here is the replay. This Terran may have been korean grandmaster because he went on massive winning streaks even in high master on kr and the only ones he lost was the ones he left right away but regardless I just wanto know if its defendable or not. I actually misread it for a widow mine drop so I made units at my main and my natural with 2 at each spot. I took the build order from creatorprime so I dont probe scout on 2 player maps to see gas or not but I use a very quick hallucination to make up for it. However even after look at my replay I dont see how I could have defended this without taking economic damage. robo -> 2 additional gates versus 2 additional gates -> robo had little to do with your loss. - I'm not a big fan of blind sentry heavy openers, especially since fast medivac openers are becoming increasingly popular. - You warped in zealots... to defend against hellbats? Why not stalkers? - Your hallu scout confirmed a 1 base build, yet you continued to make probes. You should have cut probe production at that point and chrono'ed out gateway units. - General reaction time/micro - as soon as you saw 2 medivacs enter your main you should have started running probes away, reinforced with the troops at your natural, used photon overcharge, and make an attempt to micro/save your sentries, but it took you too long to do all of that. - Even after the first drop in your main, you were still ahead in worker count. Of course a 1 base build should be able to do economic damage to you, but it's definitely possible to minimize that damage and still come out ahead.
Thnx for the help however the mistakes i see i did was my reaction to transfering was very late and photon overcharge was late aswell. I also had 3 sentries at 1 spot and zealot stalker at the other so the hellbat splash would kill my sentries in 2 swipes and also i made an immortal because i wasnt aware that hellbats were light or armor so i assumed armor. I warped in what i could i didnt have the gas to warp in stalker so i made zealots and stalkers wont really do much vs the hellbat since the medivacs make them regen quickly i feel. As for the probe production situation, even if i scout 1 base i continue to make probes till i full saturate my main and my natural but all while cutting my gases at my natural so that would be cutting probes at 38 22 probes in my main and 16 at my natural. I know this terran had near flawless execution but do you think what you told me would really change the outcome to me losing? And also is it possible to not take damage from this build at all with the aquistition of hellbat mode and medivac boost with perfect reaction and perfect execution? I know in wings of liberty hellion drop vs 1 gate expo even if you prepared for it you would still lose a few probes but will hellbats and medivac boost this seems alot stronger in hots.
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