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On December 11 2014 04:32 d4v3d wrote: Anyone can upload please a replay or a vod about a Protoss vs Terran mech? cant find vods in youtube for profesional games. I just cant win again mech. I had win like 1 from 10 games again mech, and again bio i win like 65% of my games...Im top plat.
The tanks are so fucking op kills everything, zealots, stalkers, inmortals, archons, everything in 3 seg. I tried to go Void but they scout my voids they just make vikings and anyway they get destroyed by marines/vikings before they can get in range to attack tanks.
Inmortals they get out the shield by the aoe in like 2 shoots of 10-15 tanks. And they cant hit tanks they have to focus marines/maraudres/hellbat.
They usually open with WM drop main Hellion harras or banshe. delaying his expa, i defend this easy, when i defend they already had 2nd and i get 3rd because i think they should cant move. But even if im 1 base ahead i keep losing, i cant attack and if they get the tanks outside of my base i just cant move. And i sucks at 5 bases or more, if they start droping hellbats
Focus on getting literally 0 economic damage from the 1-1-1 pressure. A good way to do this is with a stargate opening. It's also fine if you open robo, just make sure you build enough stalkers and have 1 observer in each mineral line. Try to always be ahead in economy against your opponent. If you have a better economy, then you will have a bigger army, and then you should be able to be always out in the map during the midgame. As soon as he moves out, threaten him with a basetrade. If you can't go basetrade, then you should at least keep faking engagements to force him to siege his tanks in the middle of the map. You can also try to hide some high templars and hit storms as they soften up the mech army pretty well and it's harder to repair it (heal it) than bio. Once you feel ready, engage from 3 different sides; you should especially try to hit the tanks from behind (where there are no hellbats).
Void rays are VERY situational against mech because they are hard countered by vikings, thors, and widow mines. Maybe they can be a solution if you're desperate and you are sure that they are going for mass tanks/hellbats without any anti air, but it's extremely risky. If you want, you can go straight into carriers. Open 1 gate nexus stargate and go for an oracle into phoenixes (upon scouting 1-1-1) then transition into 3 stargate carriers once you scout mech. Thanks to the oracle and the phoenixes, you should be able to defend easily from any harass (hellions, medivacs, widow mines, banshees) and then there's pretty much no timing the terran player can hit before you have a good amount of carriers. Just be careful against mass widow mines, as they can destroy all your interceptors instantly. Quickly add storms/colossi if that's the case.
The solution to hellbat drops is just adding more cannons. If you still have some phoenixes you can use those to intercept drops too, but obviously they can't be everywhere at the same time.
By the way, I also lose more often than not against mech. I have the impression that at least up to eu low gm level, winning with mech in TvP is much easier than with bio, assuming you have the same experience playing both of them.
I'd recommend watching the SKT1 vs CJ series from the SPL playoffs. BByong vs Classic shows pretty much what not to do, the pvt's in the two other series are two great reactions to it.
Oh thanks so much. I had no idea how strong carriers are again Vikings What Classic did again BByong it is what i was doing in every game again Mech. Thank you Teoita and KingAlphard and sorry bad english
On December 11 2014 04:32 d4v3d wrote: Anyone can upload please a replay or a vod about a Protoss vs Terran mech? cant find vods in youtube for profesional games.
Carriers are really hard to respond to as a mech player, so a T player should try to constantly reset the count. This can work only if the transition is scouted and Terran pushes and forces an engagement.
Best option is therefore to hide it (attacking with a few is ok if there are no vikings) or harass the T enough to pin him to his base, until you have enough carriers.
The best route obviously is to skip colossus as it could lead the T to make vikings (though this is not always necessary, as tanks ghosts and Thors have decent range, it depends much on the initial composition).
Didn't see it addressed in the OP, but is there a way to punish a Protoss who early expands? I played a lot in WoL where the response was to just immediately kill him with a 4gate, but between the Mothership Core and the overall skill level of players having improved this seems incredibly hard. A 1-gate expand seems to hold the 4-gate pretty well with a photon overcharge and just waiting for it to end often ends with the early expand player having more gates and more stuff to fight you with and if they Sim City well you can't even pick off pylons/tech. The only thing I've seen to have success is blink stalkers jumping into the main because if they photon overcharge the main you just go to the natural, but this seems weak to an early robo constantly chronoboosting Immortals. I'm just getting back into HoTS so I'm not certain that in general you can punish this kind of play, but with the current map pool full of maps where your main is like 2 pixels away from their natural it seems like it should make it easier.
Stargate builds generally do extremely well against fast expanding players, but you can't really commit to them after scouting the expansion afaik. Blink builds, even without going allin, work decently too given good execution.
How are people handling PvP in this map pool in general? I seem to have hit a place in the ladder where everyone and their brother just proxies various buildings around the map to do early rushes. Initial thoughts are to switch from a 13gate15gas to a 12 gate -> scout but I'm not sure what I should be doing outside of that transition-wise after scouting.
For example, played against a proxy two gate, scouted it, but by the time I was in zealot production he had thrown a gas/core up and started stalkers.
That sounds like the 1 zealot 2 stalker rush, not a regular proxy 2 gate. And if you're scouting, I don't quite understand what kind of trouble you run into.
On December 15 2014 01:36 vhapter wrote: That sounds like the 1 zealot 2 stalker rush, not a regular proxy 2 gate. And if you're scouting, I don't quite understand what kind of trouble you run into.
He made more than 1 zealot though.
The problem is I don't know all of the correct reactions since I seem to be hitting slight variations all the time.
On December 15 2014 00:59 las91 wrote: For example, played against a proxy two gate, scouted it, but by the time I was in zealot production he had thrown a gas/core up and started stalkers.
There are variations in PvP proxies. There are proxy 2 gates, proxy stalker and proxy 1 gates.
Lets say you 13 scout and spot a proxy in your base, its usually always 2 gate zealots.
If you scout a proxy at your natural or outside your natural but the 2nd gate isn't down yet then it's most likely stalkers so you cut probes immediately and get your own gas + 2nd gate + core (in that order)
Against proxy 1 gate you just mimic what he does production-wise and you win with your economic advantage.
Ok thanks, I've just been having a lot of issues with the "reacting to what I'm seeing" part since I've not laddered for about a year.
On December 15 2014 00:59 las91 wrote: For example, played against a proxy two gate, scouted it, but by the time I was in zealot production he had thrown a gas/core up and started stalkers.
There are variations in PvP proxies. There are proxy 2 gates, proxy stalker and proxy 1 gates.
Lets say you 13 scout and spot a proxy in your base, its usually always 2 gate zealots.
If you scout a proxy at your natural or outside your natural but the 2nd gate isn't down yet then it's most likely stalkers so you cut probes immediately and get your own gas + 2nd gate + core (in that order)
Against proxy 1 gate you just mimic what he does production-wise and you win with your economic advantage.
P v Z question. I've been observing that many pros have been using the nexus first gateway in-base opener. I have found it a very good build in most situations. I have however come across a few players doing speedling openers. My response has been trying to wall off my natural which doesn't feel the best. On most maps I feel like I have to throw down pylons too early and really is a waste. Also if my opponent immediately starts making zerglings, it's hard to wall off the natural in the first place.
Has anyone tried this and what have people experienced? or is it basically a build order loss to speedling openers.
its a build order loss. you're suppose to 9 scout if u want to do nexus first into gate anyway. you see pros doing this opening because they know their opponents so well that they won't get cheesed. on ladder you should do something safer such as gateway expand or prepare yourself for a build order loss.
You can do something very-safe semi-economical such as 13 gate (scout) 15 gas. Your probe arrives at their base the same time your gas finishes. if they didn't open speedlings then you don't mine gas at all and make nexus at 17-19 supply then mine gas again. You will still be a little behind but you are guaranteed safe against any early agression
I've seen Zest deal with a speedling opener on King Sejong once after going nexus gate iirc. He got a forge and build a cannon on the low ground without even canceling his nexus iirc, and build few other cannons. The cannon placement was kind weird, but he did hold it. The zerg still had an edge in the mid game though and eventually won the game, but Zest didn't straight up lose to it.
On December 16 2014 10:28 vhapter wrote: I've seen Zest deal with a speedling opener on King Sejong once after going nexus gate iirc. He got a forge and build a cannon on the low ground without even canceling his nexus iirc, and build few other cannons. The cannon placement was kind weird, but he did hold it. The zerg still had an edge in the mid game though and eventually won the game, but Zest didn't straight up lose to it.
Thanks, this is what I am looking for. i.e. is the solution to spend minerals on defense and forgo tech. This is basically what I've been doing but wanted to see if there was an alternative for more standard play.
It's not a very clean response to be honest, but I'm pretty sure I saw him do that on King Sejong. I can't recall who it was, but I'm almost sure it was against a top tier zerg. Unless it was a vod, you should be able to find the replay in one of the recent replay packs (perhaps wcs season 3, but not earlier).
EPT
