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On December 16 2014 13:36 vhapter wrote:
It's not a very clean response to be honest, but I'm pretty sure I saw him do that on King Sejong. I can't recall who it was, but I'm almost sure it was against a top tier zerg. Unless it was a vod, you should be able to find the replay in one of the recent replay packs (perhaps wcs season 3, but not earlier).
I believe you're talking about the game against Soulkey in the Hot6 cup. Zest went on to lose that game, but his early game defence was admirable. I personally haven't tried that response though, but in that game it looked very promising.
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Hello. PvT -> Terran going mech composition(thors,banshes,tanks etc.). I just got killed every time in lategame, advices ?
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By the time a speeding all in hits, the only difference between a nexus gate opening and a gate-core- nexus opening is in the amount of gas, energy on the mothership core, and warpgate research. However you have even more minerals which is what you need to wall off. Therefore, walling off shouldn't be an issue in maps with small-normal sized ramps, provided you scouted it. Of course he can still go brute force on your wall since you'all have less sentry energy and no photon overcharge, but I suppose it's still doable with cannons.
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On December 16 2014 19:03 TedBurtle wrote:
Hello. PvT -> Terran going mech composition(thors,banshes,tanks etc.). I just got killed every time in lategame, advices ?
Do attach at least 2-3 replays so that we can see what's going wrong? In the late game as P v mech, I think the easiest thing for you to adjust to get better results is your army composition.
In most cases, against mech, you'll be sitting on 5+ bases in the late game if you've withstood whatever pressure was thrown at you. That's 10 gases, and enough to fund a dream army composition. Tempests, high templars, immortals and occasionally though dubious sounding, carriers, forming the core of your army are your best bets. If your opponent only builds thors, banshees, tanks and maybe vikings as you mentioned for example and does not elect to build ghosts or ravens, your life is made 10x easier because tempests are excellent at sieging your opponent and if he chooses to commit to an attack, you can simply storm his forces (which will be quite easy if you're not playing at a very high level).
For the carrier response, you can see Rain vs Bbyong. Of course, this is situational. If you have the time in the game to do so, though, going skytoss will be the easiest way to win especially at not really high levels of play. Beyond that, if your opponents are very skilled and can micro ghosts and ravens really well, it comes down to your army control, especially with tempests and HTs. I'll leave that explaining to the real experts 
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United States5080 Posts
I'm completely lost in PvP. Was trying to do a straightforward Blink-obs safe 7 minute Nexus style that I took from CJ hero (3 gates + blink into a robo and a 7 minute nexus, transition into bay or charge at 10 minutes then get the other tech) and I just cannot keep up with my opponent. Either I lose to some stupid thing like proxies, fail micro at some other point in the map, lose stuff to oracles, etc., I've done basically every single way to lose a PvP in the past few days so bad that I have a 30% winrate in the matchup (whereas my PvT/PvZ are around 70%). What should I be doing? Who should I be watching to try and copy builds/learn the matchup? Nothing is lining up in early game economy wise and I just feel behind all game in addition to just not understanding what I should be doing in any case.
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On December 17 2014 04:41 las91 wrote:
I'm completely lost in PvP. Was trying to do a straightforward Blink-obs safe 7 minute Nexus style that I took from CJ hero (3 gates + blink into a robo and a 7 minute nexus, transition into bay or charge at 10 minutes then get the other tech) and I just cannot keep up with my opponent. Either I lose to some stupid thing like proxies, fail micro at some other point in the map, lose stuff to oracles, etc., I've done basically every single way to lose a PvP in the past few days so bad that I have a 30% winrate in the matchup (whereas my PvT/PvZ are around 70%). What should I be doing? Who should I be watching to try and copy builds/learn the matchup? Nothing is lining up in early game economy wise and I just feel behind all game in addition to just not understanding what I should be doing in any case.
The 2gate stargate expand under recommended builds still works for me. The 2 prong oracle/stalker pressure does pretty reliable damage, in my experience, and then it's all reactive compositions from there. It's my favorite match up because of that build.
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Hi, say if I open 3 base blink and face hydra ling rush in pvz, should I try to throw down a robo bay and tech to colossus asap or get as many blink stalkers as possible to survive the rush?
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hello
Im top plat protoss player trying to get diamond.
so i had a friend that is GM Zerg and he made me realize that i made a lot of mistakes in my macro (specially timings, i mean i was doing a fast colosus build and then i watched a pro player doing the same build and when he had 3 colossus i had 2, or when im doing blink stalker i had the 12 stalkers 30 segunds later, and this get even more notorious when im dealing with a normal push that i had just to active photon overcharge forcefield ramp etc.
So he told me that when he was diamond he realized the same thing, and then he did the exactly same buid a lot a lot of times again IA (macro builds, like 15 min in the game) so he get everything full memorized, then when he play again players he dont have to worry about thinking the next step and he could harras/defend while doing the build without making any mistakes, and then he realize that it helped him improve all builds and not only the one he repeated much.
Do you guys think this is a good way to improve? i mean i just play 2-3 hour per day and i really want to improve my play, it is worth to do this to get better? or something like 1 hour doing this and 1 hour playing ladder?
Dont sure if this should be here but im Protoss :D And sorry bad english.
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Hi, my PvP is not very good and I'm looking for some advice.
First, sorry if this is a poor question of if it's been answered somewhere else. I've tried to look, but have had little success.
Basically, I'm a macro protoss player (diamond, if that matters), and I'm looking for a PvP build. My goal is to be relatively safe against everything and to be able to do the same build every game (obviously this isn't entirely possible, but I would like to get as close as I can). I'm not interested in winning in the early game, I'm more interested in consistently getting to the mid game in a position where I'm not already dead.
I like that blink obs openings are basically safe versus everything, but they seem to fall far behind when the opponent does a robo expand and the map is poor for blink. 3 gate pressure with blink behind that seems good, except it is vulnerable to DT play or quicker blink. That's also why I don't really like gateway pressure in general, as it seems to fall far behind versus openings like blink.
Robo expand builds seem weak to 3 gate pressure, which results in a contain on one base. I'm also not sure how to scout a 3 gate attack, since saving nexus chronoboost doesn't seem to be a requirement.
I do like stargate openings, but they feel weak to early pressure, both 3 gates and 3 stalker rushes. I'm not sure how to respond to either of those plays. I've looked into Dear's Flexible Stargate expand (from imbabuilds) and CJ herO's build vs Rain in set 7 of the recent IEM finals, and both seem weak to early pressure. Not sure now to defend.
I'm sure plenty of what I said is wrong, so if you can correct me, that would be great. Any help is appreciated, including pointing me to an appropriate guide. Thanks!
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The blink-obs openings are pretty much the safest openings. Usually you can scout a robo-sentry expand before you drop down you're own robo. in that case i just go 4 gate blink and mix in zealots to break your opponent. I've seen hitman beat parting doing this many,many times. IMO good execution of blink all-ins can beat anything.
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On December 18 2014 09:49 d4v3d wrote:
hello
Im top plat protoss player trying to get diamond.
so i had a friend that is GM Zerg and he made me realize that i made a lot of mistakes in my macro (specially timings, i mean i was doing a fast colosus build and then i watched a pro player doing the same build and when he had 3 colossus i had 2, or when im doing blink stalker i had the 12 stalkers 30 segunds later, and this get even more notorious when im dealing with a normal push that i had just to active photon overcharge forcefield ramp etc.
So he told me that when he was diamond he realized the same thing, and then he did the exactly same buid a lot a lot of times again IA (macro builds, like 15 min in the game) so he get everything full memorized, then when he play again players he dont have to worry about thinking the next step and he could harras/defend while doing the build without making any mistakes, and then he realize that it helped him improve all builds and not only the one he repeated much.
Do you guys think this is a good way to improve? i mean i just play 2-3 hour per day and i really want to improve my play, it is worth to do this to get better? or something like 1 hour doing this and 1 hour playing ladder?
Dont sure if this should be here but im Protoss :D And sorry bad english.
Didn't your gm friend say he's done that himself? I think it's a great thing to do. Benchmarks are your bread and butter - if you can't hit them, you'll find yourself struggling with things you shouldn't, which in turn leads to compensating for things that shouldn't even happen in the first place, as well as mislearning if you're not careful. That's the difference between playing a real game and handicapping yourself.
When I got started with sc2, I was stuck in my starting league (gold) for a few months. But once I got promoted, it took me less than a week to get to diamond (I think it only took me 2 days). What I noticed was that a lot of people don't have sharp builds even in diamond - in fact, most people in diamond probably don't. When I got promoted, what I was decent at was mostly mechanics - ctrl groups, hotkeys, camera keys, rallying probes (i.e. keeping 16 on minerals) -, because I played wc3 for a long time and focused a lot on my mechanics in sc2 at the start. I actually did "macro drills" more often than anything else, which I won't say is the best way to go about improving (and most people would get bored if they tried this), but it certainly helped me improve my macro and mechanics. Then I began to play a lot of games on the ladder and got promoted.
Long story short, most people have bad mechanics and fail to hit benchmarks until they get to diamond. Many players have these problems even in diamond. Bad habits also tend to stick, which is terrible... so I think mechanics and benchmarks are a great starting point, as you will definitely improve if you work on these.
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On December 18 2014 11:13 Xinzoe wrote:
The blink-obs openings are pretty much the safest openings. Usually you can scout a robo-sentry expand before you drop down you're own robo. in that case i just go 4 gate blink and mix in zealots to break your opponent. I've seen hitman beat parting doing this many,many times. IMO good execution of blink all-ins can beat anything.
I feel like I can never break any builds with blink all ins. Stargate players can do just fine against me with some gateways units, a few phoenixes, and voidrays. Robo expanding players aren't easy to break either... what I manage to do at most is contain them for a while in their main if I manage to push them into the main, but not "break" them.
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I have 67% win against protos and I always do dt expand with robo to be safe against opponant if i don´t scout there tech. I just make 1 dt to check if i can do damages and warp prism if i think that i can sneak another one in there base. I use my first stalker to scout for proxzy and check if they are going for robo expand build that the only build that is good against mine but if you scout with your stalker then you can just delay your 2 extra gates and expand and maybe be little bit behind.
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On December 18 2014 11:49 vhapter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 11:13 Xinzoe wrote:
The blink-obs openings are pretty much the safest openings. Usually you can scout a robo-sentry expand before you drop down you're own robo. in that case i just go 4 gate blink and mix in zealots to break your opponent. I've seen hitman beat parting doing this many,many times. IMO good execution of blink all-ins can beat anything. I feel like I can never break any builds with blink all ins. Stargate players can do just fine against me with some gateways units, a few phoenixes, and voidrays. Robo expanding players aren't easy to break either... what I manage to do at most is contain them for a while in their main if I manage to push them into the main, but not "break" them.
You're ahead with blink vs Stargate as long as you don't take any damage. You don't need to all in your opponent. You can do that if, for example, he over builds phoenixes, or if he expands himself. But if he scouts well and plays it safe (cuts air units and goes for immortals) then you can just expand and enjoy.your economical lead.
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I'm going back to laddering after a long pause, was playing random before, now I want to learn how to macro toss foreal. I am looking for a single build per match-up to practice my macro, right now I am doing Rain's 1 gate FE in PvT with fast colo and double forge, Naniwa's fast expand in PvP (all from Imbabuilds), but I am struggling to find a good one in PvZ, right now it's a shitty build of mine that FFE and pressure with a warp prism and + 1 zealots, but against good zergs it strikes way too late, should I try to learn Dear's Pheonix/Colo build, or is it considered obselete? I would learn the meta 3 base blink, but I can't find a good build and my Zerg practice partner often go fast hydra so I figure getting Colos fast is a bettter idea.
More generally, I would like to know what are my options in term of harassment off a FFE. Thanks!
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On December 19 2014 20:00 SatedSC2 wrote:
If you're looking to play straight-up macro then FFE -> Phoenixes -> Colossi is the best way to go. It's safe vs. pretty much everything and allows you to reach the late-game every time as long as you don't make a silly mistake. You will be slightly behind economically compared to builds that take greedier third-bases but in the long-run it isn't that big a deal.
Isn't a mass ling/baneling push off 2 bases just a build order loss? I'm still getting back into the game so maybe it was just the awful old maps with no rush distance that caused problems, but if you go phoenix you have no good way to deal with Zerglings/banelings until you get colossi which are usually a way off.
And how do you transition after taking your third/forth? Do you have to invest heavily into Tempests or do you just not rebuild phoenix and head down a more standard route? I've been trying to watch a lot of replays recently but most PvZ games open with a single oracle (and then don't use the stargate again), mass blink stalkers, or the sentry/immortal push so I haven't actually seen a high level game with this strategy that I can remember.
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Italy12246 Posts
Random 2base Zerg all-ins have nothing to do with how you follow up FFE. It comes down to scouting and reinforcing your wall+chronoing sentries on time no matter what you do.
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On December 20 2014 05:08 Teoita wrote:
Random 2base Zerg all-ins have nothing to do with how you follow up FFE. It comes down to scouting and reinforcing your wall+chronoing sentries on time no matter what you do.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm referring to a push that comes as you're starting to make phoenix and you've dedicated so much time/chrono/money into phoenix, but lifting zerglings one at a time isn't very effective. Do you mean that you should be able to scout the zerg heavily committing to lings before you put down the Stargate, but after your second nexus is done? Have you seen any competitive games recently with a heavy phoenix opening I can try to find VoDs for?
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Italy12246 Posts
You are referring to a Zerg opening gas and not taking a third against your FFE opener. In that case you ABSOLUTELY should be suspicious of any kind of bust (roach/ling or ling/bane), so you need to keep active and keep scouting before you commit to any tech, specifically before you cut sentries and chrono probes and phoenixes with nothing to defend your all.
This kind of stuff is covered in the PvZ guide we wrote in 2012, the way you play in that spot hasn't changed off FFE.
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EPT
