EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 246
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Edit: I have noticed Dear uses only 1 forge, and upgrades go this way: 3 weapons, 2 armor, 1 shield. Why is armor left after weapons instead of upgrading both? | ||
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Phloat
United States17 Posts
It was a korean and a foreigner, if that makes any difference. I forgot who though... | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On March 20 2014 10:07 Phloat wrote: Does anyone have a copy of the build that was done by two pros almost identically during IEM? I forget which two it was, they were teammates. The build involved getting fast upgrades and blink, then a push with stalker sentry into a recall while a fast third was going up. Then tech was placed based on what was scouted during the push. It was a korean and a foreigner, if that makes any difference. I forgot who though... i dunno the build but it was hasuobs and dear if that helps anyone find it for you | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 20 2014 07:55 darkness wrote: Could you please link me to a solid macro replay pack? I'm tired of losing to brainless, bm kids who think they're the best just because they can spam mutas and lings. Edit: I have noticed Dear uses only 1 forge, and upgrades go this way: 3 weapons, 2 armor, 1 shield. Why is armor left after weapons instead of upgrading both? http://www.esl.eu/eu/news/237793/ Just look for Korean Protosses, namely Dear and Rain, they'll never let you down. In the foreigner community Hasuobs and Grubby also play very solid macro styles. On March 20 2014 10:07 Phloat wrote: Does anyone have a copy of the build that was done by two pros almost identically during IEM? I forget which two it was, they were teammates. The build involved getting fast upgrades and blink, then a push with stalker sentry into a recall while a fast third was going up. Then tech was placed based on what was scouted during the push. It was a korean and a foreigner, if that makes any difference. I forgot who though... I don't know the exact build, but I can venture a guess at it: *gate expand* If I'm wrong about any of that, I'm sure Teo can correct me, but I'm pretty sure that's the build. | ||
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
Who knows BO of interesting and tricky 2 base blink/colossi all-in? | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On March 21 2014 10:59 jackslater wrote: Is Parting chargelot/archon style still viable? High diamond, soo fuckn hard to win agains terrans... Who knows BO of interesting and tricky 2 base blink/colossi all-in? Why should it be viable when the ghost received buff? :D I mean the buff doesn't make archons useless, but it's much easier for terrans now than before. Can anyone also answer my previous question? Those were 2 PvZ games, I think he played against Jaedong at IEM Katowice. On March 20 2014 07:55 darkness wrote: Edit: I have noticed Dear uses only 1 forge, and upgrades go this way: 3 weapons, 2 armor, 1 shield. Why is armor left after weapons instead of upgrading both? Could it because of mainly stalker composition + colossi? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 21 2014 12:31 darkness wrote: Why should it be viable when the ghost received buff? :D I mean the buff doesn't make archons useless, but it's much easier for terrans now than before. Can anyone also answer my previous question? Those were 2 PvZ games, I think he played against Jaedong at IEM Katowice. Chargelot/archon style is pretty soon to be obsolete now that ghosts and widow mines have been buffed significantly. I can't fully vouch for the futility of this style on ladder (as I've been playing mostly Zerg recently), but both Rain and Zest have said in their interviews that the new mines are completely killing this style. I personally believe colossus openings are going to make a resurgence alongside the neo-blink/oracle builds that have been in use recently. If you want a tricky 2-base colossus all-in, I suggest looking at this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/446663-cj_heros-really-old-pvt-colossus-all-in Another way of doing a colossus allin is simply going blink/colossus and not taking a 3rd base. If you can kill off a drop or two or a significant chunk of your opponent's army cost-effectively, blink/colossus can absolutely wreck the Terran player. In PvZ, attack is far more important than armor since colossi, immortals, stalkers, and even zealots benefit more from attack upgrades. Going double ups in PvZ is viable, but is generally not done simply because the extra gas cuts into your tech units; in addition, armor upgrades don't help much when going up to a skytoss/templar composition. When players go for a heavy stargate composition (3+ stargates on 3 bases), they tend to get air upgrades + shield upgrades since ground armor and attack do not factor into their composition as much. A good use of double upgrades is Patience vs. Jaedong, where Patience opts for a very heavy ground army on Alterzim Stronghold to better hold his first 4-5 bases. | ||
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
Terran splits up his army in two, uses one part to drop and other to put pressure on your third. If you split up your army, he takes his drop army and crushes your third because only half of your units are there. If you defend your third with all that you got, he drops half of his army into your main into gg. Really seems like an unwinnable situation. How are you supposed to counter this. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 21 2014 23:00 Daimai wrote: Can someone please tell me how to play against terran? Terran splits up his army in two, uses one part to drop and other to put pressure on your third. If you split up your army, he takes his drop army and crushes your third because only half of your units are there. If you defend your third with all that you got, he drops half of his army into your main into gg. Really seems like an unwinnable situation. How are you supposed to counter this. A lot of it depends on you keeping track of his medivac count and a good eye on his medivacs. In the later parts of the mid game (6+ medivacs), you need to either keep ~8 blink stalkers in your main or templar + cannons. If, in particular, you're having trouble with the Polt-style of doom dropping, take a look at how Liquid_HerO was able to dismantle his play using good positioning of his bases/army: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/445605-how-to-run-a-pvt-clinic-hero-at-iem Like I said, you need to keep a really good eye on the minimap as well as actually counting the number of medivacs in your opponent's composition. You need to have either lots of vision via oracle revelation or 3-5 observers scattered around the map. | ||
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Abturn
Germany55 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
On March 20 2014 05:23 KingAlphard wrote: Has anyone ever faced mass BC/Raven/ghost? I ran into this composition when I wanted to go skytoss vs. mech. It seems like there's no protoss composition able to counter this. I tried mass tempests+ pylons to give vision + HTs everywhere to flank and snipe ravens/ghosts. However I was never able to get really efficient trades, because he had like 30 OCs (alter'zim) and kept continuous scans around his army. Even if I got a good storm on the clumped army, he just called down 10 mules and repaired everything. And then obviously PDDs block almost every tempest shot. Hmm I think Voidrays would be the more cost efficient answer rather than Tempests since they aren't rendered moot by PDDs, however you have to have them split really well or else thors will tear them apart instantly. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 22 2014 00:49 bjornkavist wrote: Hmm I think Voidrays would be the more cost efficient answer rather than Tempests since they aren't rendered moot by PDDs, however you have to have them split really well or else thors will tear them apart instantly. The only way to beat that army is to create a cannon wall and hang out with mass tempests supported by a handful of ghosts. You can't engage in a direct fight so you have to resort to just slowly picking stuff off with the tempests and slowly crawling across the map with cannons. Void rays are just trash vs. ghost/viking or ghost/BC. It sucks, but...well, that's the ultra late game for you. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On March 20 2014 07:55 darkness wrote: Could you please link me to a solid macro replay pack? I'm tired of losing to brainless, bm kids who think they're the best just because they can spam mutas and lings. Edit: I have noticed Dear uses only 1 forge, and upgrades go this way: 3 weapons, 2 armor, 1 shield. Why is armor left after weapons instead of upgrading both? Because +1 weapons means Zealots take 1 less hit to kill lings (and this continues as long as you have 1 upgrade advangate over the Zerg) also I think +2 Stalkers take 1 less hit to kill Zerglings as well. Mainly that. | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
On March 22 2014 01:17 SC2John wrote: The only way to beat that army is to create a cannon wall and hang out with mass tempests supported by a handful of ghosts. You can't engage in a direct fight so you have to resort to just slowly picking stuff off with the tempests and slowly crawling across the map with cannons. Void rays are just trash vs. ghost/viking or ghost/BC. It sucks, but...well, that's the ultra late game for you. Voidrays definitely suck vs Terran but at this point in the game you don't seem to have a choice and you'll be able to get them out faster and for less gas and minerals than tempests. Albeit with a cannon wall and tempests you can protect your cannons from tanks with the tempests, however couldn't the terran just sneak some nukes into your cannon line and be much more cost effective? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 22 2014 01:25 bjornkavist wrote: Voidrays definitely suck vs Terran but at this point in the game you don't seem to have a choice and you'll be able to get them out faster and for less gas and minerals than tempests. Albeit with a cannon wall and tempests you can protect your cannons from tanks with the tempests, however couldn't the terran just sneak some nukes into your cannon line and be much more cost effective? Tanks? If you have enough time and supply to pump out 50+ supply of void rays without dying, then you probably should have won already. The difficulty in the late game is that both players have terrifyingly strong armies that can just run over the other player if someone falters in any way. If you're 50 supply down, it almost doesn't matter what your composition is: you're going to die. So the question is, what's the right composition to deal with theirs? With a solid cannon wall, the only real way for Terran to break Protoss is by nukes, yes. So you just need to be super vigilant with a handful of observers around the map and deal with the ghosts as they try to nuke your wall. It shouldn't be too hard between the super long-ranged tempests and high templar to snipe ghosts before they can land nukes. A lategame oracle or two are also invaluable at this task alongside casting revelation onto your opponent's army. | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
On March 22 2014 01:42 SC2John wrote: Tanks? If you have enough time and supply to pump out 50+ supply of void rays without dying, then you probably should have won already. The difficulty in the late game is that both players have terrifyingly strong armies that can just run over the other player if someone falters in any way. If you're 50 supply down, it almost doesn't matter what your composition is: you're going to die. So the question is, what's the right composition to deal with theirs? With a solid cannon wall, the only real way for Terran to break Protoss is by nukes, yes. So you just need to be super vigilant with a handful of observers around the map and deal with the ghosts as they try to nuke your wall. It shouldn't be too hard between the super long-ranged tempests and high templar to snipe ghosts before they can land nukes. A lategame oracle or two are also invaluable at this task alongside casting revelation onto your opponent's army. The way I read the situation is that at this point in the game Protoss has likely already been maxed for a while, and should be using zealot warps around the map to take advantage of the slower mech army, and pin him down while adding vrays or tempests to his army from the freed up supply of the zealots. Just my two cents I haven't been in this situation enough nor am I good enough at this game to really know what I'm talking about lol. I feel like having multiple speed warp prisms for map control and for ht shuttling would be really useful though | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 22 2014 01:57 bjornkavist wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2014 01:42 SC2John wrote: Tanks? If you have enough time and supply to pump out 50+ supply of void rays without dying, then you probably should have won already. The difficulty in the late game is that both players have terrifyingly strong armies that can just run over the other player if someone falters in any way. If you're 50 supply down, it almost doesn't matter what your composition is: you're going to die. So the question is, what's the right composition to deal with theirs? With a solid cannon wall, the only real way for Terran to break Protoss is by nukes, yes. So you just need to be super vigilant with a handful of observers around the map and deal with the ghosts as they try to nuke your wall. It shouldn't be too hard between the super long-ranged tempests and high templar to snipe ghosts before they can land nukes. A lategame oracle or two are also invaluable at this task alongside casting revelation onto your opponent's army. The way I read the situation is that at this point in the game Protoss has likely already been maxed for a while, and should be using zealot warps around the map to take advantage of the slower mech army, and pin him down while adding vrays or tempests to his army from the freed up supply of the zealots. Just my two cents I haven't been in this situation enough nor am I good enough at this game to really know what I'm talking about lol. I feel like having multiple speed warp prisms for map control and for ht shuttling would be really useful though Well, yeah, you're right in those things. But we're talking about different stages of the game. If your opponent has already suceeded in building a ghost/BC/raven army, he will have already mined out 4-5 bases and will have turret rings everywhere. I think void rays are a great switch when dealing with mech; my personal way of dealing with mech is double robo colossus/immortal pressure while dropping elsewhere into a big void ray switch. But once your opponent gets that scary end game army, though, you really can't rely on amoving a bunch of void rays into his army and hoping you have enough. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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