EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 215
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
In WOL i saw parting fe/But if you make gate-gaz-nexus-pylon(we expand one probe before we buid nexus?rally point of 18 probe on gaz) your gate have supply block.No sense gate befor gaz/so many variations for transition/I try make it vs zerg/So amazing/We can choose fast stargate or fast+1 vs zerg(maybe robo) and twilight vs terran | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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probuLing
United States75 Posts
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Bronzebarcode
7 Posts
How important is it to be active with my MSC and first gateway units? | ||
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
On January 03 2014 06:15 Asuna wrote: What do you guys think about the risk vs benefits of 16 nex 16 gate 17 pylon -> same probe makes gas -> chrono zealot + make cyber + forge the moment gate finishes as an opener in PvZ as opposed to the normal gateway expand or forge first? It has the risk in that anything earlier than a 10 pool is completely impossible to hold , and if you choose to make the gate at the nat like I do then even a 10 pool is nearly impossible to hold. However it allows for much harder pressure than a FFE while retaining the econ benefits of a FFE, and is timed out to just barely protect your wall if they go 14 pool lings and try to runby. As you said it's weaker against early pools and doesn't seem to have any advantages over gateway expand or FFE. | ||
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
On January 02 2014 18:52 Gamlet wrote: I think prototos can play gaz befor gate at all matchups.For example gaz-gate-nexus-pylon-cyber-forge(pvz)/Without forge in pvt.In pvp some more variations of gaz befor gate/ Gas before gate gets destroyed by any early pool and doesn't really bring any advantages. | ||
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probuLing
United States75 Posts
On January 03 2014 07:08 Aiursc wrote: As you said it's weaker against early pools and doesn't seem to have any advantages over gateway expand or FFE. You can do a lot harder pressure than FFE though for the same econ since you only need 2 wg chronos if you want to do a 6:50 attack. I'm just not quite familiar how exactly it compares to gate expands since I don't ever do those. | ||
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
On January 03 2014 07:12 Asuna wrote: You can do a lot harder pressure than FFE though for the same econ since you only need 2 wg chronos if you want to do a 6:50 attack. I'm just not quite familiar how exactly it compares to gate expands since I don't ever do those. The build you are talking about was decent in WoL when FFE was very popular and zergs didn't expect so early of a timing. If I remember correctly Naniwa used it as a metagame build because he was sure DRG would 15 pool. However now gateway expand can pretty much do the same thing you are trying to do (earlier pressure) without the risk of losing to an early pool. Also I think your cannon goes down later than ffe so lings might be able to pick off a building at the wall off. | ||
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probuLing
United States75 Posts
On January 03 2014 07:17 Aiursc wrote: The build you are talking about was decent in WoL when FFE was very popular and zergs didn't expect so early of a timing. If I remember correctly Naniwa used it as a metagame build because he was sure DRG would 15 pool. However now gateway expand can pretty much do the same thing you are trying to do (earlier pressure) without the risk of losing to an early pool. Also I think your cannon goes down later than ffe so lings might be able to pick off a building at the wall off. Lings can't really pick anything off unless he stops at 16 drones and goes pure lings, but you can hold that at the wall, just will lose a building sometimes. But does gateway expand go into as strong of a 2 base all in? | ||
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callecal
Sweden65 Posts
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
On January 03 2014 07:34 Asuna wrote: Lings can't really pick anything off unless he stops at 16 drones and goes pure lings, but you can hold that at the wall, just will lose a building sometimes. But does gateway expand go into as strong of a 2 base all in? In my experience the best 2 base allins come from a blind 17 nexus > 17 forge. That seems to saturate the fastest. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On January 03 2014 08:00 Aiursc wrote: In my experience the best 2 base allins come from a blind 17 nexus > 17 forge. That seems to saturate the fastest. You have a bigger army with ffe compared to 1 gate fe after the 9th minute or so, but zerg army will also be bigger because you left him free to build drones during the early game. Because of this I personally prefer 2 base all ins off of 1 gate fe. If you go nexus first into gate, core etc. you have the economy of a nexus first into forge build but with faster warpgate tech too, so it's like merging the advantages of FFE and 1 gate FE into a single build. | ||
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probuLing
United States75 Posts
On January 03 2014 08:18 KingAlphard wrote: You have a bigger army with ffe compared to 1 gate fe after the 9th minute or so, but zerg army will also be bigger because you left him free to build drones during the early game. Because of this I personally prefer 2 base all ins off of 1 gate fe. If you go nexus first into gate, core etc. you have the economy of a nexus first into forge build but with faster warpgate tech too, so it's like merging the advantages of FFE and 1 gate FE into a single build. Yea, I'm just not quite sure in terms of relative position whether gate FE or the one I do would be better. If the goal is to 2 base all in possibly with some pre-push. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
I was top masters about six months ago, but I haven't played for a long while and now I am playing again. I have been trying to do the gateway expand instead of the forge fast expansion that I am familiar with. The only problem I am having is that I am seeing one gas and two gas variants - but not really sure which is better or for what reasons - but more importantly - what do you do against a Zerg who just makes a lot of speedlings in response? Most Zerg I play against don't do anything, but my opponent a few minutes ago rallied all 6 of his lings, began speed, and just kept rallying them to my base. All I had was my MSC at first and units coming from one gateway at my ramp - so eventually I was overrun. I have seen a post on another site saying you are supposed to cancel the nexus and just stay on one base for a bit longer? I have heard another saying to cut probes and wall off your natural and then chrono out sentries in the meantime - but I am unsure and not very knowledgeable about this. Any help? | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
When you 4gate, is it recommended to just do it exactly as in WOL? I've been skipping the MScore and going for that 5:50 warp-in with 1 zealot and 6 stalkers at the enemy base and it seems to work very well, mostly because people either aren't scouting or suck at reading what they scout or have shit builds. Once I get into the diamond MMR range I fear that this won't work anymore unless the build is optimally designed. Also when do you scout? I have been doing 9 scout for PvP (because everybody that is in gold/plat sees that I'm in bronze and tries to cannon rush me and/or proxy gate) and 9 scout for zerg on maps with only two spawns, but when you are on four spawn maps, what do you do? I've been switching between 9 scout and 13 scout because I'm not really sure. This is partially answered in the OP but if there is a more detailed response that would be great. | ||
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bigmanbigman
17 Posts
Any certain players to watch who do this style? I'm really interested since it seems so powerful.. Also, is blink all-in off 2 base vs terran still viable even though many terrans get a sensor tower? It doesnt seem that much harder to win in theory for me though since you choose where to blink in, and terran is always unsure of where you may be. Thanks guys | ||
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
On January 03 2014 13:08 Chocolate wrote: Hey guys stupid questions coming up. I was diamond back in 2011 and early 2012 (so, kinda terrible), didn't play for a while, and now I'm laddering again. MMR decay pushed me down into bronze, and I've just been 4-gating every match to get my MMR back into the diamond range (I have yet to check out the MMR calculator tool, but I think I am in the gold or platinum range right now) ASAP for the next season. When you 4gate, is it recommended to just do it exactly as in WOL? I've been skipping the MScore and going for that 5:50 warp-in with 1 zealot and 6 stalkers at the enemy base and it seems to work very well, mostly because people either aren't scouting or suck at reading what they scout or have shit builds. Once I get into the diamond MMR range I fear that this won't work anymore unless the build is optimally designed. Also when do you scout? I have been doing 9 scout for PvP (because everybody that is in gold/plat sees that I'm in bronze and tries to cannon rush me and/or proxy gate) and 9 scout for zerg on maps with only two spawns, but when you are on four spawn maps, what do you do? I've been switching between 9 scout and 13 scout because I'm not really sure. This is partially answered in the OP but if there is a more detailed response that would be great. You should be able to warp in at 5:38 if you execute correctly. That build will still work fine vs most lower leaguers. Also you should never have to scout before gate. A lot of the times I don't even scout because I have so much chrono I can defend pretty much anything with that build. I would recommend that you scout after gate that way your timing is not too messed up, in pvp just scout your surroundings after gate and then scout them. | ||
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