EPTReading everything DOES help a lot, but watching it and taking my own notes can do worlds of good as well. Thanks again!
EDIT: Just remembered TL has a search function, haha. Sorry, got what I needed!
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 213
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
Reading everything DOES help a lot, but watching it and taking my own notes can do worlds of good as well. Thanks again! EDIT: Just remembered TL has a search function, haha. Sorry, got what I needed! | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
You must scout this in time, preferably as his first proxy pylon is building. Immediately throw up your own forge. His first cannon will finish and there is usually nothing you can do about it as long as the cannon is not in range of your probes/buildings. Throw up a cannon between your buildings and his first cannon but not in range of the cannon. If he tries to throw up more than 1 cannon, keep throwing up cannons, either matching his cannon count or going over by 1. The key is to make sure your cannons win this cannon vs cannon fight. Whoever wins this will usually win this game. If you think it will be close, you can even pull probes to attack the cannons just so you get a small edge on cannon hp, even if you lose probes. If you think you can decisively win this cannon war without additional cannons, cancel your other cannons in production. There is a good example of NonY holding it on Yeonsu, having scouted the first high ground pylon. http://www.twitch.tv/nony/c/3157411 The game in question starts a few minutes in. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
btw that nony replay is meh. Pure luck to spot that pylon. Killing canons with zealots isn't hard. | ||
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bigmanbigman
17 Posts
I was playing on the Korean server today... faced up against I think Startale Hack ? I played him and well I tried the famous 2 base blink all in. It SEEMED like it was gonna win but hey it turns out it didnt. I feel like I'm hitting the benchmarks very comfortably maybe 5-10 seconds late because I'm not perfect hehe. Replay is: http://drop.sc/369065 I think I could've done better in terms of not letting that reaper do too much probe damage since that slowed me down a bit. I also think my last 3 gates were a bit late, 5-10 seconds late which resulted in me hitting slightly later and letting him almost get stim done which is really bad. I also think perhaps this wasnt the best map for the blink all-in, star station or something being better since I a) have more room to blink, and b) I can wall off his ramp with a sentry and then he is pretty much doomed to 1 base and I can completely out-macro him. Thanks guys. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
For example, how do you warp-in units? Should I hold shift? Is it worth to hotkey the warp-in pylon directly or to create a camera hotkey for this or shoukl I just use the minimap? Do I need separate hotkeys for stargate and robo? Do I need a separate hotkey for the MSC? How do you set rally points for robo units? I know this varies from player to player, but I'd like to know suggestions and see if I can relate to them. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 28 2013 11:28 bigmanbigman wrote: Hi guys, I was playing on the Korean server today... faced up against I think Startale Hack ? I played him and well I tried the famous 2 base blink all in. It SEEMED like it was gonna win but hey it turns out it didnt. I feel like I'm hitting the benchmarks very comfortably maybe 5-10 seconds late because I'm not perfect hehe. Replay is: http://drop.sc/369065 I think I could've done better in terms of not letting that reaper do too much probe damage since that slowed me down a bit. I also think my last 3 gates were a bit late, 5-10 seconds late which resulted in me hitting slightly later and letting him almost get stim done which is really bad. I also think perhaps this wasnt the best map for the blink all-in, star station or something being better since I a) have more room to blink, and b) I can wall off his ramp with a sentry and then he is pretty much doomed to 1 base and I can completely out-macro him. Thanks guys. 1. Warp gate and the first stalker were super late, should probably work on holding off that reaper. You also lost like 4 probes, which is pretty bad, especially for masters league. 2. Gateways 2 and 3 go down at 6:15, gateways 4-6 go down at 7:00. You were 15 seconds late on both of these. Your attack hits at 9:13 instead of 8:30, AFTER stim finishes. Behind this you only have 30 workers instead of 36*. I really think you ought to look at your own replays, you weren't even close to hitting the timings. 3. You threw down two really dumb time warps. Generally the proper way to play this is to poke the front, time warp the ramp, then blink into the main. Any subsequent time warps should be used so that you can kite away from the bio/SCVs without dying. 4. You still could have very easily won if you had just sniped all the marauders, blinked down to the low ground, and killed the two bunkers in front of the natural. Blink allins are stupid powerful lol. 6. Polar Night is amazing for blink allins. Pretty much all of the maps in the map pool are. On December 28 2013 11:45 Azoryen wrote: Hi, I want to start offracing with protoss and was wondering how I should perform some of the race's mechanics, For example, how do you warp-in units? Should I hold shift? Is it worth to hotkey the warp-in pylon directly or to create a camera hotkey for this or shoukl I just use the minimap? Do I need separate hotkeys for stargate and robo? Do I need a separate hotkey for the MSC? How do you set rally points for robo units? I know this varies from player to player, but I'd like to know suggestions and see if I can relate to them. Warping in units: you can either hold shift, use the "quick warpin" method, or just hold down whichever hotkey you need and click several times. Separate hotkeys for robo and stargate: yes Separate hotkey for MSC: YES, absolutely yes. Rallying robo units: I usually rally robo units to my natural. Otherwise they usually end up being rallied to a "big" unit like MSC, colossus, or immortal. | ||
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bigmanbigman
17 Posts
On December 28 2013 11:49 SC2John wrote: 1. Warp gate and the first stalker were super late, should probably work on holding off that reaper. You also lost like 4 probes, which is pretty bad, especially for masters league. 2. Gateways 2 and 3 go down at 6:15, gateways 4-6 go down at 7:00. You were 15 seconds late on both of these. Your attack hits at 9:13 instead of 8:30, AFTER stim finishes. Behind this you only have 30 workers instead of 36*. I really think you ought to look at your own replays, you weren't even close to hitting the timings. 3. You threw down two really dumb time warps. Generally the proper way to play this is to poke the front, time warp the ramp, then blink into the main. Any subsequent time warps should be used so that you can kite away from the bio/SCVs without dying. 4. You still could have very easily won if you had just sniped all the marauders, blinked down to the low ground, and killed the two bunkers in front of the natural. Blink allins are stupid powerful lol. 6. Polar Night is amazing for blink allins. Pretty much all of the maps in the map pool are. Warping in units: you can either hold shift, use the "quick warpin" method, or just hold down whichever hotkey you need and click several times. Separate hotkeys for robo and stargate: yes Separate hotkey for MSC: YES, absolutely yes. Rallying robo units: I usually rally robo units to my natural. Otherwise they usually end up being rallied to a "big" unit like MSC, colossus, or immortal. I never realized I was doing that many things wrong, thanks for clearing things up!! =) What is just kind of confusing/bothering me is that when I do this build, terrans just pull 10-15 SCVs and use them as a meat shield and it becomes kind of impossible to defeat the terran because of that meat shield. I try time-warping them and killing them off, but they just pull more and more SCVs and use MULEs to stabilize the economy fairly decently. And by the time they've bought themselves that much time with the SCV meat shield, they have stim, upgrades, medivacs, and it is very tough for me to break them. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 28 2013 11:45 Azoryen wrote: Hi, I want to start offracing with protoss and was wondering how I should perform some of the race's mechanics, For example, how do you warp-in units? Should I hold shift? Is it worth to hotkey the warp-in pylon directly or to create a camera hotkey for this or shoukl I just use the minimap? Do I need separate hotkeys for stargate and robo? Do I need a separate hotkey for the MSC? How do you set rally points for robo units? I know this varies from player to player, but I'd like to know suggestions and see if I can relate to them. Keep in mind that the nature of your questions are fairly subjective. There are multiple ways to execute commands in SC2 as Protoss, it really just comes down to preference and practice. 1) Holding down the unit's hotkey is better. ex: zealots -- hold z, spam click etc. There are other tricks for faster warping in, here is one of them. 2) Preference. Hotkeying the pylon directly or using a camera hotkey both work, but managing a pylon hotkey is a little easier than re-setting up a camera hotkey. On the flip side, hotkeying a pylon can use up hotkey space, so if you're starving for keys go with the camera key. Minimapping it is OKAY too, but its more efficient to work a hotkey into your muscle memory. I used to hotkey the pylon too, but when HotS came out I had to make room for the MSC, so it's a camera hotkey now. 3) Preference. You can hotkey your stargate/robo separately, or you can put them on the same hotkey and tab through production. Same hotkey method is more efficient on hotkey space, the separate hotkey removes a redundant action if you're only using one building (hitting tab for each production cycle). If you're crammed for hotkeys, putting them on the same hotkey isn't a bad idea. If you want value for your APM and can spare the extra reach on an additional hotkey, keep them separate. If you're doing a mixed robo/sg comp and put them on the same key, you need to keep all of these buildings within the same screen, otherwise you're going to cboost them inefficiently. 4) Yes; your MSC needs a hotkey. It has priority over all other spell casters, and for anything else, it's flying, so it'll fly over cliffs while ground units like zealots walk around, creating a mess for you to untangle with each move command. It's infinitely better to learn a hotkey for it, especially for multi-tasking when you're trying to defend multi-pronged harass. 5) Rally your robo into your natural, at your near base warp-in pylon, at, or outside your safest, furthest expansion (which is in the direction you expect pressure/intend to push, usually the nat), and then learn to remember to check this area every cycle to grab these units. Rallying it to your main army/outside opponent's base can risk a mis-rally, which happens to the best of players. A good camera hotkey for pylons is the same camera hotkey your robo units are rallied to. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On December 26 2013 19:52 aZealot wrote: It's in the OP: There is a good example of NonY holding it on Yeonsu, having scouted the first high ground pylon. http://www.twitch.tv/nony/c/3157411 The game in question starts a few minutes in. Thanks. I think I've been making too many probes. Like they can always throw up more cannons than I can :o | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On December 28 2013 18:35 Heartland wrote: I've noticed a lot of Protoss progamers throw up their second pylon outside of the range of their building Gateway. Is that better than placing it within range so that there are two pylons powering the gateway? I'm thinking that if there is a proxy rush of some sort then having only one pylon is tantamount to instant death. But I've seen the majority of progamers do it, so it has to be better somehow. It depends on the matchup and on the map actually. Sometimes you want to double power your Gateway, sometimes you want to gain some extra vision, so you spread your pylons. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 28 2013 12:01 bigmanbigman wrote: I never realized I was doing that many things wrong, thanks for clearing things up!! =) What is just kind of confusing/bothering me is that when I do this build, terrans just pull 10-15 SCVs and use them as a meat shield and it becomes kind of impossible to defeat the terran because of that meat shield. I try time-warping them and killing them off, but they just pull more and more SCVs and use MULEs to stabilize the economy fairly decently. And by the time they've bought themselves that much time with the SCV meat shield, they have stim, upgrades, medivacs, and it is very tough for me to break them. I haven't done it enough to be an expert on it, but most of the time what I see is 3 phases: 1. Pressure the front. If there's not enough stuff there, just kill off the bunkers, time warp the ramp, and proceed to kill the terran. If he's got enough to hold the front, time warp the ramp and blink into the main. 2. In the main, you want to snipe stim, marauders, and as many units as possible, using time warp to deal with the SCV train better. If you don't outright win here, just head back to the ledge and blink down (you can also do the cute micro trick where you just blink back injured stalkers to the low ground). 3. Once you do huge damage, repeat the first step and just use superior numbers and really good blink micro to win. Stim WILL be finished by then, but your opponent should have so little units that your ~15-20ish stalkers should be able to just overwhelm them. | ||
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Ravenoz
Germany16 Posts
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
On December 28 2013 18:35 Heartland wrote: I've noticed a lot of Protoss progamers throw up their second pylon outside of the range of their building Gateway. Is that better than placing it within range so that there are two pylons powering the gateway? I'm thinking that if there is a proxy rush of some sort then having only one pylon is tantamount to instant death. But I've seen the majority of progamers do it, so it has to be better somehow. In pvt,. I like to make my 2nd pylon where they can possible proxy factory and lift into your base so you can spot it. I learned this from Rain and RSVP. Same goes for inbase proxy rax with tech lab or just 2 rax rine and bunker in. This is very uncommon but and auto lose if you blind 1 gate few or at least hard to hold. In pvz, assuming you don't wall, you should place your second pylon with your gateway because they can 6 pool and target fire your pylon that is powering your gateway and you will lose if your pylon is too exposed. I'm not sure about this though but I do know that 6 pool arrives before a chronoboosted zealot if 2 player map so correct me if I'm wrong. If you wall, then there is no need to place your 2nd pylon with gateway although I see Nony do this sometimes. For pvp, your second pylon can be used to spot possible sneaky canon rush but for me personally, since I don't scout for proxy gates, I make my second pylon with ggateway because if they proxy gate then they can just target fire your pylon and you will lose. I hope this helped | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
On December 30 2013 19:55 playa wrote: Best response against double proxy: proxy reaper into proxy widow mines? Reaper in base around 3:25 (on yeonsu at least), proxy widow mine in base around 5 min mark. I don't get the drawbacks of this build or how it's supposed to be punished when there's no way to stop the proxy from going up, whether you know it's coming or not, and no way to have detection that early. I find this incredibly hard to hold off with blind 1 gate fe but here is a replay of Astrea holding it off vs EGXeno on NA ladder. http://drop.sc/369200 loses the game but still shows you how to defend it properly without losing too much probes. | ||
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