EPT
no wonder nobody uses the mothership then 0oI honestly have no idea then, doesn't seem like protoss has the units to deal with that. perhaps tempest should hit all massive units for increased damage
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 170
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
no wonder nobody uses the mothership then 0oI honestly have no idea then, doesn't seem like protoss has the units to deal with that. perhaps tempest should hit all massive units for increased damage | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Your ideal max vs ultra is some combination of templar/immortal/colo/archon with no gateway units. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:04 Sated wrote: So Queen/Ultralisk us pretty cost efficient... ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m7pC1mN.jpg) I managed to do well in a couple of fights because I managed to hit Feedbacks on the Queens. However, Zerg production is obviously quite a lot quicker than Protoss production when it comes to tech units, so whenever we fought the Zerg would have enough army to pen me in before I managed to have enough army to fight back - this was even when the fights ended pretty evenly! The end result was that I couldn't take a fifth base and got completely starved out. My composition was Chargelot/Archon/Immortal/Templar. I guess that I could've gone for Void Rays, although the Queens probably wouldn't have had much trouble dealing with them and they wouldn't have had any upgrades... Anyone got any replays were they've fought against this composition successfully..? EDIT: It was literally Ultralisk/Queen at the end of the game, and that's the composition I had trouble with. Earlier in the game it was Ling/Bling/Ultra and I feel I could've won at that stage if I hadn't misclicked a portion of my army into a tonne of Banelings, or if I'd gotten Storm earlier in the game, so I only really need help fighting that late-game composition! I see a couple of problems with this post.... First, how could you not take a 5th base against queen/ultralisk...? Second, the army composition you have should TEAR APART ultras with almost no work; you must be doing some kind of micro mistake. To engage, you want to spread your units out in a line (preferably behind some buildings), select your immortals, and focus fire. Try to hit feedbacks. In the end, you want to preserve the immortals, because as the immortal count starts to climb, ultras look more and more feeble and silly. In the end, 8-10 immortals is MORE than enough to deal with any number of ultras. Also, as far as void rays go, they are perhaps the worst unit possible against mass queen. However, if for some reason you don't have time or the ability to produce immortals 2-3 at a time, you can add a few void rays just to stay alive. EDIT: And also, start phasing out zealots for archons. Archon/immortal/colossus/templar should be your endgame goal. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:04 Sated wrote: So Queen/Ultralisk is pretty cost efficient... I managed to do well in a couple of fights because I managed to hit Feedbacks on the Queens. However, Zerg production is obviously quite a lot quicker than Protoss production when it comes to tech units, so every time we fought the Zerg would have enough army to pen me in before I managed to have enough army to fight back. The end result was that I couldn't take a fifth base and got completely starved out... My composition was Chargelot/Archon/Immortal/Templar. I guess that I could've gone for Void Rays, although the Queens probably wouldn't have had much trouble dealing with them and they wouldn't have had any upgrades. Anyone got any replays were they've fought against this composition successfully..? EDIT: It was literally pure Ultralisk/Queen at the end of the game, and that's the composition I had trouble with. Earlier in the game it was Ling/Bling/Ultra and I feel I could've won at that stage if I hadn't misclicked a portion of my army into a tonne of Banelings during one key engagement. There was definitely a window during which I could've won the game, so it isn't an analysis of my play that I'm looking for (which is why I haven't posted a replay). I'm just looking for help dealing with this composition should the game manage to get to that stage. Is this just a case of, "don't let them get there"..? I feel you bro T_T, and getting feeback wasnt even easy if they keep their ultralisks within range. Best way is to fight at a choke | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On September 01 2013 19:39 Teoita wrote: Also don't get obsessed with the "need" to "improve". I can't stress this enough. First and foremost, play to HAVE FUN. You shouldn't care about your points, ranking, bonus pool, builds, whatever. Practice comes naturally once you play purely for the enjoyment of the game (in fact, the reason tons of pros retire is they just don't enjoy playing anymore). I agree totally. Most of us have work or school etc. and this is where we really look to improve. I think if you make SC2 into a chore then you will simply stop playing over time, or losses will become personal, or you will rage and/or be disappointed in yourself and so on. Some people can do it. But some, like myself, can't. I've had way more fun over the game when I decided to take a chill pill and play the game to have fun. I also think it's a good way of developing your own style and finding out more about the game. You don't have to always copy and perfect a pro build. If it bores you, do something else. Sure, playing Protoss has its limits (the game has rules after all) but I think our race has more flexibility than we sometimes give it credit for. Edit/ This is not to say that you don't look to get better at SC2 in a serious way by improving mechanics etc. But that you don't let the little things you are trying to do to improve cover the fact that this game is a game and played primarily for enjoyment. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:12 Sated wrote: Tempests only deal additional damage to massive flying units. The reason you see them being used against Colossi is because Colossi can be targeted with vs. air attacks. Vortex doesn't exist any more.  Damn, I did not know that. I thought it did bonus damage to all massive units (no wonder its not used against Archons in PvP). So, it's only really useful against Broodlords, Battlecruisers, Carriers and Colossi? Thanks for that bit of information. (And, yes. I miss the old MS too with Vortex and proper Recall. I wonder if Blizzard will give that back to us at some stage. So that the MSC has town portal Recall and MS has Recall to MS or both options with higher energy cost for the upgraded Recall. It would scale nicely, I think. Anyway, just remembering Kiwikaki vs Stephano and fantasising a little, I suppose.) | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Tempests are also useful vs static stuff; wether that's planetaries, spines/swarmhosts/hatcheries, or stuff like that. | ||
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Phloat
United States17 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On September 02 2013 04:24 Teoita wrote: I SO don't miss Vortex. Bullshit spell, it's ridicolous that two out of three protoss matchups (including pvp) revolved around landing one spell. Tempests are also useful vs static stuff; wether that's planetaries, spines/swarmhosts/hatcheries, or stuff like that. Yeah, fair play, now that I think back to multiple PvZ in WOL. As a P, I did love seeing Archons obliterate Z, though. However, I do miss the old Recall. So, I hope that returns at some stage. And, yeah. Tempest are alright. I've grown to like them. I disliked them in beta, characterising them as flying Stalkers shooting pillows at the enemy from across the screen. Players are beginning to do cool things with them (synergy with Oracle etc). Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. Edit/ I'm moving to a new flat and procrastinating packing. I'd best get to it. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Rather than flying stalkers, tempests are more like flying immortals imo. Devastating in some scenarios, huge pieces of derp in others, so you have to think about why you are making them if you go for that tech. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:04 Sated wrote: So Queen/Ultralisk is pretty cost efficient... I managed to do well in a couple of fights because I managed to hit Feedbacks on the Queens. However, Zerg production is obviously quite a lot quicker than Protoss production when it comes to tech units, so every time we fought the Zerg would have enough army to pen me in before I managed to have enough army to fight back. The end result was that I couldn't take a fifth base and got completely starved out... My composition was Chargelot/Archon/Immortal/Templar. I guess that I could've gone for Void Rays, although the Queens probably wouldn't have had much trouble dealing with them and they wouldn't have had any upgrades. Anyone got any replays were they've fought against this composition successfully..? EDIT: It was literally pure Ultralisk/Queen at the end of the game, and that's the composition I had trouble with. Earlier in the game it was Ling/Bling/Ultra and I feel I could've won at that stage if I hadn't misclicked a portion of my army into a tonne of Banelings during one key engagement. There was definitely a window during which I could've won the game, so it isn't an analysis of my play that I'm looking for (which is why I haven't posted a replay). I'm just looking for help dealing with this composition should the game manage to get to that stage. Is this just a case of, "don't let them get there"..? screenshot doesn't justify anything...why not just post the rep for others to see why you lost | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
Most of my recent games against this was me taking expansions, defending, doing some harassing, and then moving out with a nearly unstoppable protoss army with most upgrades (except for ground armor in most cases) and just raiding his main and tech buildings. The zerg tries to base trade, I recall or something, and then finish him. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On September 01 2013 08:57 KingAlphard wrote: Having a sim city is much better against BFH because even if you have a lot of cannons they just kill workers too fast. You can build a simcity with the smallest hole possible so that only probes can get in and out, or with the classic 1 hex hole and put a stalker in hold position there. First thing that should be established is that the question offered no time frame. The thing about sim cities is that you need to know hellion run-by's are coming. Conversely, later on they provide an excellent choke against your gateway units if the game goes on and the Terran goes bio and drops your mineral line behind the sim city. It's a solution with drawbacks. If the hellion run-by's are an ongoing commitment (aka mech), the hellions are going to get through regardless of the sim city, either by dropping directly onto the mineral line, or just running by if you're fighting mech, since you can't babysit your mineral lines and turtle on two base forever. At some point you have to get cannons to stop it. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Also, what kind of production do I need for 3 bases in lategame PvZ? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On September 02 2013 07:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: How do you switch out your deathball in PvZ for a new comp? Do you just send out your gateway units to die while making archons/tempests/colossi behind them? Also, what kind of production do I need for 3 bases in lategame PvZ? If you have a lot of zealots/stalkers with your army, you should be looking to trade or split off units to pick off bases. I will generally threaten the 4th/5th base of the zerg while sending zealots/warping in zealots on the other side of the map or with a warp prism in the main. Blink stalkers can be used in the same capacity, although they aren't as expendable and SHOULD be saved if necessary. Generally the best solution to this is just no to accumulate too many gateway units throughout the game. For 3 bases and a standard ground army, I generally have an idle stargate, 2 robos, and upwards of 12 gateways. For air compositions or against muta/corruptor, you should have 2-3 active stargates, a robo, and 8-10 gateways. | ||
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