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On August 27 2013 06:19 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 06:12 OPDream wrote:On August 27 2013 02:42 rd wrote:
Anyone know of specific PvZ games where toss goes voidray colossus off 2 stargate 1 robo on 3 base? Thanks. I used this build a lot. Basically, the bo is stargate - robo - robo bay- 3rd base - 2nd stargate, after 5th 6th gas, make twilight and research charge, then you just make void ray colossus, templar achieve as soon as you see zerg's hive is morphing. Know of any vods of it in pro level games, or at least a player? I know minigun does it a lot but its hard to find him doing it on the right maps in his stream vods.
this is my standard in pvz...so good and strong imo...2 days ago i hit a couple of zergs where I go for that composition/build
http://www.twitch.tv/flatlinesc2/b/450958653?t=24m
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United States4883 Posts
On August 27 2013 05:18 linuxguru1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 02:42 rd wrote:Can alternatively put a gateway/core where the second pylon is to the right of the Nexus, though it would be a full wall-off. The first pylon is in range to power it. + Show Spoiler + SICKCITY!
Wait, what? When I tried to wall this off this morning, I was able to score a full walloff with a gateway, core, and pylon/zealot door. Is there something I'm missing, because I'm pretty sure you DON'T need to use the nexus....
EDIT: double-checked, I'm definitely right. I would suggest looking at my walloffs first, they're a little more solid than the other ones suggested in this thread so far.
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What do you guys think of the new maps? They seem good for blink all ins, but awful for PvZ.
I can't take a fast third on Polar Night that isn't super exposed, and the one behind the natural, while apparently super safe, takes too long to get because you have to take down 2 2k-hp rocks. I don't even need my core to wall off my natural on Polar Night though, which is nice.
Yeonsu's natural is not hard to wall off either, but that rock next to your natural can become a problem later on as you'd also have to simcity it if you don't take your third next to it. The third next to this rock is actually pretty exposed imo, the surface area in front of it is so large. The other one can be temporarily easier to protect with the aid of a rock, but you have to simcity down the other ramp to cover your back. And once they frontal rock is taken down, there are 4 paths zerg can take to break into your natural or third. It looks like a "simcity your third or die trying" lol. And once you'll eventually have to take a fourth, which is pretty exposed as I've already mentioned.
I'm not sure about Frost yet. It's easy to simcity your natural as well, and one of the thirds seems less exposed... except your probes can be attacked from high ground and there's a freaking bridge that leads to this area, though a single gateway is enough to simcity the bridge. The other third is closer to my natural, but can be attacked from both sides unless I simcity another bridge that requires 2 gates. Just placing cannons by your third doesn't cover both areas well enough.
I'd really like to know which thirds you guys think are safer to take and if these maps suck as much as I think they do. I don't want to blindly veto all new maps right way.
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United States4883 Posts
On August 27 2013 08:10 vhapter wrote:
What do you guys think of the new maps? They seem good for blink all ins, but awful for PvZ.
I can't take a fast third on Polar Night that isn't super exposed, and the one behind the natural, while apparently super safe, takes too long to get because you have to take down 2 2k-hp rocks. I don't even need my core to wall off my natural on Polar Night though, which is nice.
Yeonsu's natural is not hard to wall off either, but that rock next to your natural can become a problem later on as you'd also have to simcity it if you don't take your third next to it. The third next to this rock is actually pretty exposed imo, the surface area in front of it is so large. The other one can be temporarily easier to protect with the aid of a rock, but you have to simcity down the other ramp to cover your back. And once they frontal rock is taken down, there are 4 paths zerg can take to break into your natural or third. It looks like a "simcity your third or die trying" lol. And once you'll eventually have to take a fourth, which is pretty exposed as I've already mentioned.
I'm not sure about Frost yet. It's easy to simcity your natural as well, and one of the thirds seems less exposed... except your probes can be attacked from high ground and there's a freaking bridge that leads to this area, though a single gateway is enough to simcity the bridge. The other third is closer to my natural, but can be attacked from both sides unless I simcity another bridge that requires 2 gates. Just placing cannons by your third doesn't cover both areas well enough.
I'd really like to know which thirds you guys think are safer to take and if these maps suck as much as I think they do. I don't want to blindly veto all new maps right way.
I can't really comment until I've played on them, but I agree that there are definitely a lot of problems taking 3rds on these maps. I honestly have no idea where there are rocks on the backdoor expansion of Polar Night.... As for Yeonsu, I think that will be a nightmare to try and defend a 3rd; like you said, mostly because of the double ramp next to your natural. I think the 3rd bases on Frost are all right though. Even thought there are those alternate attack paths, the distance between them by ground is huge which means you're probably not going to die to tons of split unit pressure. On Frost, I would just wall whichever ramp isn't closest to my 3rd. However, against medivacs...I'm not so sure how all of this theorycrafting goes....
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On August 27 2013 08:06 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:18 linuxguru1 wrote:On August 27 2013 02:42 rd wrote:Can alternatively put a gateway/core where the second pylon is to the right of the Nexus, though it would be a full wall-off. The first pylon is in range to power it. + Show Spoiler + SICKCITY! Wait, what? When I tried to wall this off this morning, I was able to score a full walloff with a gateway, core, and pylon/zealot door. Is there something I'm missing, because I'm pretty sure you DON'T need to use the nexus.... EDIT: double-checked, I'm definitely right. I would suggest looking at my walloffs first, they're a little more solid than the other ones suggested in this thread so far.
Yep, you're right, that building has a huge hit box that extends a few hexes into the choke.
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On Polar Night, there is a 2k-hp rock behind your natural, and another 2k-hp rock you have to take down if you want to take this expansion. It took me a while to realize there is actually an expansion there. It should be super easy to defend this area with a nice simcity behind the bushes next to the expansion, but there is no way to take it without a couple of units to take down those rocks.
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Is 1 gate expand in pvp an auto-lose to stargate voidray all-in? I can never seem to defend it ever.
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United States4883 Posts
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On August 27 2013 08:06 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:18 linuxguru1 wrote:On August 27 2013 02:42 rd wrote:Can alternatively put a gateway/core where the second pylon is to the right of the Nexus, though it would be a full wall-off. The first pylon is in range to power it. + Show Spoiler + SICKCITY! Wait, what? When I tried to wall this off this morning, I was able to score a full walloff with a gateway, core, and pylon/zealot door. Is there something I'm missing, because I'm pretty sure you DON'T need to use the nexus.... EDIT: double-checked, I'm definitely right. I would suggest looking at my walloffs first, they're a little more solid than the other ones suggested in this thread so far.
I do the same thing, but that simcity is just totally awesome!
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I just ran into an in-base proxy hatch today and got a little confused. The PvZ guide says I need to place a pylon next to it and build 2 cannons within range of the hatchery, and that these 2 cannons should finish slightly after the hatchery goes up. The thing is, how am I supposed to wall off my natural, get a cannon at my wall, and still build a pylon and 2 cannons next to his hatchery if he gets his hatchery at 2:40?
Should I delay my gateway to do this and improvise a pylon wall at my natural in case he sends lings there? I noticed that I can't get 3 cannons up fast enough while getting my gateway before my cannon, and even after that I couldn't get double gas without delaying my cybernectics core anyway.
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On August 27 2013 02:55 OPDream wrote:
Hey guys, in pvp, when you open 1g expand then robo to defend opponent's 1 base allin, is stalker+immortal or zealot+sentry+immortal better?
No one knows?
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Italy12247 Posts
On August 27 2013 14:35 OPDream wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 02:55 OPDream wrote:
Hey guys, in pvp, when you open 1g expand then robo to defend opponent's 1 base allin, is stalker+immortal or zealot+sentry+immortal better? No one knows?
Depends on the situation really. Sometimes you need ranged dps and/or don't need forcefields (like vs blink or stargate), against other builds (like if for some odd reason you play vs one base colossus), zealots are better than stalkers. Just try to adapt your composition to your opponent's.
edit: @vhapter: delay your wall off to get those cannons up.
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In PvT, if the terran opens with gas (reaper most likely), should I send my zealot to his base?
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Austria24422 Posts
On August 27 2013 21:22 Kinon wrote:
In PvT, if the terran opens with gas (reaper most likely), should I send my zealot to his base?
If you make it and you manage to avoid the reaper I'd say go for it. Chances are you throw your opponent off a bit, maybe pick off an SCV building the bunker.
Personally I cancel the zealot though.
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Italy12247 Posts
On August 27 2013 21:22 Kinon wrote:
In PvT, if the terran opens with gas (reaper most likely), should I send my zealot to his base?
Kinda map dependant. On a map like, say, Bel'Shir, your zealot will not cross with the reaper so if you have the multitasking to do it, might as well. On the other hand, if you are playing on Frost or Yeonsu you are likely to just run into the reaper and lose your zealot for nothing, so i wouldn't do it.
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These new maps are pretty garbage for PvZ, I think. I've vetoed Derelict Watcher, Polar Night, and Yeonsu... playing Akilon, Belshir, Frost, and Whirlwind.
I usually FFE against Zerg and play standard in other matchups, so I think this is the best choice for me. Also you can be really annoying with Blink vs T or P on Frost.
Thoughts?
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Teoita, I'm going to ask this question directly to you because you already know the build order I'm talking about.
So I've been doing that sOs Voidray build with a fast third in PvZ. I'm not sure exactly how to deal with heavy roach ling aggression that hits at about 11 minutes or so. I played a game where my opponent took only 3 gasses and pushed my without getting a hydra den or anything... I think it was like stephano's build, but he had quite a few lings too. I'm typically low on gas at this point and sentry energy too (hallucination scouting costs 100 energy... and with this build you only get 2 sentries iirc, maybe 3), and I open my first 3-4 extra gateways a little after 11:00.
Nowadays, ramps that lead to your natural are pretty open and require at least 3 force fields to buy time. Once roaches take down one of the buildings in my wall, he can attack my main, natural, and third in a way that voidrays can't keep up with. Is it that important to identify a build like this asap? And if I do, how am I supposed to react after having invested so much on voidrays, triple stargate, upgrades, and a twilight?
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Italy12247 Posts
I've never really played vs that kind of timing. I lost once to some guy that did similar things but with hydra/ling, and honestly i messed up more positioning than anything.
So, theorycrafting a bit:
a) You should already have your 6 void rays out by then. This means that once your phoenix sees pure roach/ling coming across the map, you should send the voids to intercept and mow down as many roaches as possible. At that timing he's unlikely to have roach speed, so he's going to lose a lot of stuff.
b) Once his roaches are down he can't break down your wall and he can't kill a cannon if it's simcitied correctly (surrounded by a pylon/nexus/2gates). Combined with nexus cannon this, again, buys time for your gates to kick in. The simcity at your third to protect the cannon is really important. Maybe add 2-3 cannons there or at your natural, dunno.
c) Once your gates are open and you get some production up, you should have enough zealots on the ground to clear the lings, while maybe adding a few voids to kill off the roaches.
I mean, that kind of aggression was popular in wol, and it was pretty punishable with just 4 phoenixes, a void ray, a handful of gateway units and maybe an immortal (assuming he wasn't completely allin like a roach max, then you just had to play super carefully). I used to do the same thing; once i saw the aggression, intercept it across the map with my stargate units, kill off a good bunch of it, finish off the rest at whatever nexus was being attacked. I figure with 6 voids instead of one it would be easier 
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Hi guys! I have currently problems dealing with Hyun Roach/hydra/viper at 13mins mark... I' m opening stargate into colossus vith heavy tech rushing hts for feedbacks but still too many vipers, too many roachs , too many hydras... My tech rush just forced me to have only few units.... Any tips to counter this?
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Italy12247 Posts
Post a replay. It's definitely a very tough build to deal with, but you are doing the correct reactions so it comes down to execution.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OZdGx9P.jpg)
