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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
I think I could have warped in more units by 10 minutes... coulda built my gates 10 seconds faster or so, but aside from that (I could tweak the build to make more units if need be anyway), it seems fine to me... even though it has a lot of "ifs". Here is the replay: http://drop.sc/355463?pass=6eac238c-94a8-45cc-811e-5503f067dd3e I kept on playing for the rest of the game, but you can obviously ignore stuff past 11:00-12:00 or so. Feedback is much appreciated. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On August 26 2013 07:52 Teoita wrote: Nah fast thirds kind of like that were definitely doable in WoL. They fell out of fashion in HotS but they can work out. I doubt you can have a robo, 3gates, and a third by 6:20 (which is a full minute before an "average" widow mine drop hits), not to mention a forge and cannons. The econ just isn't there. I don't know about the specifics like probe count and tech though; i've never done fast third stuff. The only exception was in WoL when sometimes i got eng bay blocked and went full zerg, taking my third and then my nat on maps with easy 3 bases like, say, Entombed. I totally yolo'd it, so i can't comment on specific builds. pretty much this when it comes to your theorycraft...i just don't see it happening nor do I see it being beneficial...you get a quicker third yes...but you aren't even saturated at your natural and you have to skip a lot of workers to get enough defense for a widow mine drop or a hellion run by, etc...the fastest third I took against terran after just picking random replays is around 7:20 | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
Sure, the idea about getting a forge is probably too much (and definitely theorycraft), but it's not like I need a forge that early by any means. In fact, my standard msc expand build includes no forge until almost 8:00, which is when I actually go double forge. But aside from that, there isn't much theorycrafting at all, it's just a variation (a greedier version) of my staple PvT build (msc expand). I didn't change much: (1) Instead of getting 1 stalker and 3 sentries blindly (for extra energy mostly), I get a single only sentry. (2) There is no reaper, so I don't need the stalker mentioned above to defend my natural. Therefore, I get 3 gates instead of 2. (Yes, I typically stay on 2 gateways until 8:30, it's fine!) (3) Instead of getting the 2 geysers at my natural at 6:00, I get it about a whole minute later. (4) Instead of chronoing my 2 forges immediately, I keep chronoing probes until 10:00 to saturate my new base asap. If you watch the replay I posted above, you'll probably see what I mean more clearly. It would be just a more corner cutting variation of my msc expand, which could come in handy against players who didn't open with a reaper. | ||
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dyDrawer
Canada438 Posts
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sSooG
Croatia38 Posts
Thanks in advance! | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On August 26 2013 22:05 sSooG wrote: How to FFE on new retarded ladder maps?` Thanks in advance! I'll try to upload updated screenshots later tonight. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I'll run some tests tonight. If it turns out outright impossible to FFE on it, im considering opening a [D] thread. | ||
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sSooG
Croatia38 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/23U6Mv4.jpg) | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
Looks more like a map to cheese on for pvz, TONS of places to proxy. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 26 2013 14:43 dyDrawer wrote: I really liked Creator's double Forge Colossus build vs Terran back in Wings of Liberty, but the release of HotS affected timings greatly. So 1) is it still viable? and 2) if it is, can some one do a more detailed guide on its specific timing in HotS? Yes, the same build is viable in HotS, you just have to be more careful about drops going into the midgame. The updated HotS version is to get double forge before your 2nd and 3rd gateways, though. You can do this because nexus cannon makes you very safe against any kind of early aggression (pre-10:00) terran can throw at you. On August 26 2013 22:05 sSooG wrote: How to FFE on new retarded ladder maps?` Thanks in advance! Here you go: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Gm8z2PL.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fKEQwF6.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wMzuci2.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aYRf19n.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/avFbE7N.png) Note: For Frost, just rotate it for each position On August 26 2013 22:51 Teoita wrote: From what little i've seen, it looks hard as shit to wall, no matter what opening you do, so dunno. I'll run some tests tonight. If it turns out outright impossible to FFE on it, im considering opening a [D] thread. Polar Night has a deceptively narrow choke (only like 12ish hexes). The biggest problem on this map might be the backdoor in the back of your natural mineral line. I actually think Yeonsu will create more problems, as your wall is sitting right next to your natural ramp as well as a ramp out of your natural. It also has destructible rocks next to it and is targetable from the low-ground (7 RR ftw!). Frost is really easy to wall off though. | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
http://drop.sc/355534 http://drop.sc/355535 im clueless as to how to beat it | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 27 2013 00:45 Rickyvalle21 wrote: how do i stop the 888 build i never beeen more frusterated then now after getting beat by the same opponent doing the same thing and winning here are the replays. http://drop.sc/355534 http://drop.sc/355535 im clueless as to how to beat it Tip #1: it takes 3-4 probes to chase a single reaper, not 16. Tip #2: spend all chronoboost and continually make stalkers Tip #3: until you have a critical mass of stalkers (6), pull probes against reapers to avoid losing stalkers This should be pretty easy to hold as long as you're prioritizing the right things. As far as mass reapers goes later in the game, I like to just rush out some immortals. Immortal/stalker is an excellent composition against someone who thinks it's cute to mass reapers. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
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linuxguru1
110 Posts
On August 27 2013 02:42 rd wrote: Can alternatively put a gateway/core where the second pylon is to the right of the Nexus, though it would be a full wall-off. The first pylon is in range to power it. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OZdGx9P.jpg) SICKCITY! | ||
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
Anyone know of specific PvZ games where toss goes voidray colossus off 2 stargate 1 robo on 3 base? Thanks. I used this build a lot. Basically, the bo is stargate - robo - robo bay- 3rd base - 2nd stargate, after 5th 6th gas, make twilight and research charge, then you just make void ray colossus, templar achieve as soon as you see zerg's hive is morphing. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:12 OPDream wrote: I used this build a lot. Basically, the bo is stargate - robo - robo bay- 3rd base - 2nd stargate, after 5th 6th gas, make twilight and research charge, then you just make void ray colossus, templar achieve as soon as you see zerg's hive is morphing. Know of any vods of it in pro level games, or at least a player? I know minigun does it a lot but its hard to find him doing it on the right maps in his stream vods. | ||
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:19 rd wrote: Know of any vods of it in pro level games, or at least a player? I know minigun does it a lot but its hard to find him doing it on the right maps in his stream vods. jimcredible and macsed, check their stream vods. Also search jim vs vibe on youtube, I think he used this build on whirlwind.  | ||
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