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United States7483 Posts
On July 27 2013 13:31 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 11:35 vhapter wrote:
Any tips on how to play a blink + msc scout build vs 1 gate fe? I can't seem to win with a push, and I don't know where to draw the line with this form of aggression. Today my opponent got a pretty delayed robo, but quite a few zealots. The moment his immortal came out, I tried blinking on top of it to snipe it right away, but yeah... his zealots just ripped my stalkers apart. so this is very dependent on when you put on aggression...do you put any aggression before blink is done (basically before nexus is done)...if so you should be able to put him in a very bad spot (snipe msc or snipe his sentries or snipe both)... if you don't put any aggression til you have blink then you have abuse mobility rather than trying to blink on top of him...that means blink into his main...pick off a pylon or any structures or any stranded units and blink away without losing any of your stalkers...from there you have to decide do you want to expand or all-in him...if you want to expand then you have to use your mobility and buy time where he has to be on his side of the map til he has blink...if you go for an all-in, then you have to force photon overcharges as soon as possible and back off unless he has very few units...then you have to abuse your mobility to force him to engage in an unfavorable position like blinking in his main and setting up a concave at his ramp
It's also map dependent, we need a replay. Blink builds are powerful because of their versatility: you can go all-in and just pounce on him if he's weak, you can pressure the front, force a cannon and blink into the back, you can harass mineral lines then blink out to compensate for your later nexus, etc.
Blinking directly on top of zealots+immortals is generally a no-no unless you vastly outnumber him.
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On July 27 2013 13:40 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 13:31 .kv wrote:On July 27 2013 11:35 vhapter wrote:
Any tips on how to play a blink + msc scout build vs 1 gate fe? I can't seem to win with a push, and I don't know where to draw the line with this form of aggression. Today my opponent got a pretty delayed robo, but quite a few zealots. The moment his immortal came out, I tried blinking on top of it to snipe it right away, but yeah... his zealots just ripped my stalkers apart. so this is very dependent on when you put on aggression...do you put any aggression before blink is done (basically before nexus is done)...if so you should be able to put him in a very bad spot (snipe msc or snipe his sentries or snipe both)... if you don't put any aggression til you have blink then you have abuse mobility rather than trying to blink on top of him...that means blink into his main...pick off a pylon or any structures or any stranded units and blink away without losing any of your stalkers...from there you have to decide do you want to expand or all-in him...if you want to expand then you have to use your mobility and buy time where he has to be on his side of the map til he has blink...if you go for an all-in, then you have to force photon overcharges as soon as possible and back off unless he has very few units...then you have to abuse your mobility to force him to engage in an unfavorable position like blinking in his main and setting up a concave at his ramp It's also map dependent, we need a replay. Blink builds are powerful because of their versatility: you can go all-in and just pounce on him if he's weak, you can pressure the front, force a cannon and blink into the back, you can harass mineral lines then blink out to compensate for your later nexus, etc. Blinking directly on top of zealots+immortals is generally a no-no unless you vastly outnumber him.
the only map i see where this can be an issue is whirlwind (in the map pool)...obviously there are stronger blink maps than others but the rest are still doable in those scenarios
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United States7483 Posts
On July 27 2013 13:43 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 13:40 Whitewing wrote:On July 27 2013 13:31 .kv wrote:On July 27 2013 11:35 vhapter wrote:
Any tips on how to play a blink + msc scout build vs 1 gate fe? I can't seem to win with a push, and I don't know where to draw the line with this form of aggression. Today my opponent got a pretty delayed robo, but quite a few zealots. The moment his immortal came out, I tried blinking on top of it to snipe it right away, but yeah... his zealots just ripped my stalkers apart. so this is very dependent on when you put on aggression...do you put any aggression before blink is done (basically before nexus is done)...if so you should be able to put him in a very bad spot (snipe msc or snipe his sentries or snipe both)... if you don't put any aggression til you have blink then you have abuse mobility rather than trying to blink on top of him...that means blink into his main...pick off a pylon or any structures or any stranded units and blink away without losing any of your stalkers...from there you have to decide do you want to expand or all-in him...if you want to expand then you have to use your mobility and buy time where he has to be on his side of the map til he has blink...if you go for an all-in, then you have to force photon overcharges as soon as possible and back off unless he has very few units...then you have to abuse your mobility to force him to engage in an unfavorable position like blinking in his main and setting up a concave at his ramp It's also map dependent, we need a replay. Blink builds are powerful because of their versatility: you can go all-in and just pounce on him if he's weak, you can pressure the front, force a cannon and blink into the back, you can harass mineral lines then blink out to compensate for your later nexus, etc. Blinking directly on top of zealots+immortals is generally a no-no unless you vastly outnumber him. the only map i see where this can be an issue is whirlwind (in the map pool)...obviously there are stronger blink maps than others but the rest are still doable in those scenarios
Certain maps are a lot weaker for blink builds because there's only 1-2 spots to blink into the main and the defensive positioning is a lot easier (shorter distance for the defender to travel than the attacker). On maps like these, your options are limited more to frontal aggression, and the blink+msc harass versions should be avoided. You can of course do the full all-in version however.
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Italy12248 Posts
On July 27 2013 13:12 b_unnies wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 17:01 Teoita wrote:On July 24 2013 12:29 b_unnies wrote:
2. in PvT, if both of us went a FE build, and I later scout him getting a very fast 3rd (before any medivac pressure), how do I respond? it seems if I get a quick 3rd of my own, the economy doesn't kick in fast enough when he does get medivacs 2) Take your third off 3gates instead of 6, proceed with your build as normal. It sounds like you aren't macroing properly. standard expo->3gate robo->6 gate colossus isn't really my build though. my build has 2nd/3rd gate is heavily delayed until maybe 7~ mins. though i guess it makes it impossible to answer my question without multiple reps outlining my build
The timing on your second and thid gate and aoe choice doesn't matter. You'll scout the third OC between 8 and 9 minutes on most maps anyway.
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I've uploaded 2 replays to illustrate some of my recent issues better:
Blink vs 1 gate fe: http://drop.sc/351852?pass=391e1157-1acb-4e78-ab9a-511a830e02c1
8-min marine pressure into drops (2 base terran): http://drop.sc/351853?pass=aefa7273-89c2-40d7-8870-0637734f0e6f
Blink questions: + Show Spoiler +So, msc blink stalker is one of PvP builds I know, but I don't know how to execute it properly. It always turns into an all in or me trying to play a macro game after losing a ton of stuff. My all ins don't work very well vs this build and I don't know how to gain any edge with this build in a macro game either... I don't even know when to resume probe production or stop warping stalkers.
PvT questions: + Show Spoiler +First question - how should I deal with early marine pushes at about 8:00? They seem to range from 12 marines up to even 20. I don't want to over warp in units earlier.
If I don't see a third cc, should I just turtle on 2 bases? And if my opponent is getting a lot of marauders, should I continue colossus production or switch to immortals (at what point)?
Btw, any micro tips are welcome, maybe I could solve of these issues with better micro too.
EDIT: just lost another game today to a Terran who is definitely not better than me. He stayed on 2 bases until he maxed out at about 14 minutes and split his army in 2. One hit my natural and the other one did a doom drop. Should I just warp in gateway units like a mad man and try to max out asap as well? -.-
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Just 2 questions because I don't know how I can improve:
1. How should I react when I scout a 10 gate into 3 gate pressure? I usually play a lot of 1 gate -> stargate -> 3 gate oracle pressure, but don't stand a chance against that build. Should I just go for 3 stalker rush? I don't know how to counter it properly.
2. I play Alicias skytoss PvZ style and damn, I love it. Still, I often die to a heavy infestor style. Against everything else I pretty much win every time lol. What do you do if you see heavy infestor play? Just continue building voids and split them like a god? Or try to add templars early on? By the way, I watched replays of Alicia and noticed that he likes to keep his gateway support as little as possible. Thats why I try to dump my minerals into heavy zealot harassment or cannons to protect my bases.
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Just starting to learn Protoss.. Does anyone have a link to a good build to use against all 3 match ups? With the exact build general build order if possible. I just played 3 unranked games and the opponent's level of play was too high. And I didn't know what I was doing.
User was warned for this post
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I've been looking around and I can't quite find what I'm looking for... mostly because I don't know exactly what I'm looking for.
Does anyone have any idea about someone who's been doing fast DTs and immortals in PvT? Dang I can't even remember the name(s) of who I watched using this sort of style... I just remember that it was recently that I saw the style being played, maybe it was WCS. I really have nothing more to go off of than that there were fast DTs and a fast expand too.... x.x
If someone could direct me maybe to a player who uses a something like 1gateFE-> dts harass and immortal pressure... if something like that exists... I wish I had any idea of what I'm looking for. sorry for being so vague.
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Italy12248 Posts
Rain vs Supernova on Anaconda. He faked an immortal allin, went for a dt drop and then a 2base chargelot/immortal/archon timing off that.
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On July 29 2013 09:12 Teoita wrote:
Rain vs Supernova on Anaconda. He faked an immortal allin, went for a dt drop and then a 2base chargelot/immortal/archon timing off that.
Ahh that definitely does sound familiar. Thanks for the game! I'll check that out.
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Im having trouble with benchmarks and numbers as to when im supposed to have these timings by in PvT
-When does the first colossus come out if you went 1 gate expand with forge before robo?
-What kinds of production buildings should I have off of 2 base saturation?
(e.g. colossus tech -> 5 gateways and 1 robo, 5 gateways 2 robo, etc)
Thanks!!!!!
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On July 29 2013 10:38 iMrising wrote:
Im having trouble with benchmarks and numbers as to when im supposed to have these timings by in PvT
-When does the first colossus come out if you went 1 gate expand with forge before robo?
-What kinds of production buildings should I have off of 2 base saturation?
(e.g. colossus tech -> 5 gateways and 1 robo, 5 gateways 2 robo, etc)
Thanks!!!!!
There is no specific time for your first colossus to come out, it really depends on your build. I always go robo bay into double forge. Based on my personal experience, a 9:30 colossus is very safe. Even though you may not need it this early, if your opponent comes earlier with a fast stim push, you could lose a ton if your gateway army isn't sizeable enough.
I avoid chronoing my colossus and focus on chronoing my 2 forges exclusively. To get a colossus this early without any chronos, you should get your robo bay at 7:10. If you think that's too early and you need gas for something else, I'd say build it no later than 7:30, because you will still be able to get your colossus out earlier with 2 chronos if you see an early push coming. Remember, it takes 2:20 to get a colossus out, or about 2:00 with chronos. So anything later than this will probably require a larger gateway force to hold off an aggressive push.
In PvT, it's common to get 3 gateways + a robo earlier, and then add 3 more gateways at about 8:30-8:40 (my build at least, though I don't actually get my third gateway early on) to deal with medivac timings. There is an old article (by Teoita?) about what the templar build Startale players used to do, which was 3 gates + robo --> +2 gates at 8:00 --> +2 gates at 9:00. That's because you can focus on making units against any attack that hits before 10:00. I believe this is kind of important, because with a templar build, you won't have a colossus for defense at 9:30+. And 7 gateways is better than 6 if you're going templar, because you will probably float on minerals and have to add 2 extra gateways at some point otherwise. You wouldn't need more than 4-5 gateways immediately if you were to get a third asap, but that's not gonna happen unless you spot a fast third cc.
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Italy12248 Posts
^ Pretty much yeah. Also it's stadnard to get a third before adding gates 4-6/7 if he went 3cc, while teching up normally.
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i had a problem with a zerg player going hydra ultra basically i started 1 gate FE and harassed much but i just lost it somewhere i just started having bad engagements i think it is just the small mistakes please tell me any mistakes in this game (even the small ones  )
replay : http://ggtracker.com/matches/3775782
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United States225 Posts
Might not be on the topic, but anyone know what interceptors cause minerals + you have to rebuild them?
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On July 30 2013 02:16 iLevitate wrote:
Might not be on the topic, but anyone know what interceptors cause minerals + you have to rebuild them?
Because units that generate free units would be very silly and unstarcraft like. 
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Italy12248 Posts
Carriers have been that way since bw and haven't been changed. Which is really good i might add, i'm glad zergs get all the bullshit free units so we can complain about it :D
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Heya- quick PvT question
So it seems there's been a bit of a resurgence of triple CC openings in TvP. I remember in wings a 2-3 col 6-7 gate was basically a hard counter to this, and you could do it reactively if you opened robo first after nexus.
With robo first being standard, I assume this is still a viable response in HOTS, especially if they open reaper( Should have less units at ~ 11 minutes with reaper expand vs gasless, right?)?
Here's a post by artosis about it from wings - http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/37853368755/hero-vs-taeja-dhw-finals-game-1-thoughts
Thanks in advance
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
From my experience, yes! I like to do it every now and then on some maps (Planet S, Bel'Shir Vestige) and I just did it every game on Star Station (which would be like 5 games before I vetoed the damn thing). It works pretty well! Nothing's really changed about the timing except that terran has an easier time getting stuff to defend if they scout it early because the factory can produce useful stuff now. I've seen one guy get tanks in response since there's no siege upgrade anymore which would have worked decently if he'd scouted it a bit earlier I think.
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rly busy atm but ill do some replay analysis tomorrow or wednesday
posting this so i dont pussy out ^^
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EPT
