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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
On July 30 2013 03:26 Teoita wrote: Carriers have been that way since bw and haven't been changed. Which is really good i might add, i'm glad zergs get all the bullshit free units so we can complain about it :D that what i thought  (I mean, zerg got free unit shoot stuffs and we don't ??? | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Tannex
United States196 Posts
On July 30 2013 06:10 Teoita wrote: I like to look at it this way: zerg get dumb units, we get baller, manly as hell units. That it a fantastic way to look at it. :D | ||
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
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unknown soldier
38 Posts
i had a problem with a zerg player going hydra ultra basically i started 1 gate FE and harassed much but i just lost it somewhere i just started having bad engagements i think it is just the small mistakes please tell me any mistakes in this game (even the small ones ) i would like to add to that that i think i took the third so late is that true?replay : http://ggtracker.com/matches/3775782 | ||
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GoDLy MD
United Kingdom258 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I was hoping someone could confirm the reason I think hero lost, which I think was the fact that he had no more storms left after killing innovation's vikings, so he shouldn't have pushed into his 4th because with a better concave, no more chargelots to tank the marauders and no storms the MMM just ripped his stalkers and then his collosus was exposed. It was a really good game from hero though, he completely outplayed innovation at every turn, was super far ahead but unfortunately combination of mules, cheap tier 1 units and stim stopped him from dying. | ||
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
Here's a replay: http://drop.sc/352215 My PVP winrate is below 30 percent....... | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
2 gate robo is a really middle of the road build. Either go for 3 gate robo and try to pressure (which still isn't a good idea) or 1 gate FE. With the advent of the mothership core, it's a lot easier to defend pressure, than to put it on. There's no need for a second gate, especially if he doesn't have one. The way the timing works out with a two gate robo nexus like you did is that a strong 1 base timing will hit before your nexus finishes, so you'll have to cancel it regardless. You also barely scouted him, even though you found his proxy pylon. PvP is all about scouting, you should send your first observer that you have, even if he has DTs, they won't do enough damage before you can chrono out a second one. You need at least 4 gates when you expand, you can even go up to 5, but you were lacking production, and with a smaller army, it's really tough to deal with VRs. Also you kept deciding to push out and fight his army (which gives you no benefit). Had you scouted him, you would've known he was one basing, and you could've added some gates and even cannons. SO. SCOUT Expand early, or don't expand. (unless you scout your opponent expanding) SCOUT (see their lack of expansion) DEFEND WIN | ||
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Gr33n
Bahamas113 Posts
On July 30 2013 06:10 Teoita wrote: I like to look at it this way: zerg get dumb units, we get baller, manly as hell units. i wonder how many people are banned for similar posts to this lets be honest toss has a rather large adv against current zerg. is it the zvp understanding? possibly as you sometimes see zergs crush toss but more often then not forcefields allow for a decent turtle god army that zergs struggle with or tech paths are hidden for a classic toss 2 base all in not trolling i just think your comment is a bit flamebait considering zergs units/openings are boring and obvious where toss can do MANY dif openers that require dif responses. oh and i agree at times SH are complete bull but a good player can just constantly attack dif locations and really outplay SH zerg User was warned for this post | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On July 30 2013 15:09 Gr33n wrote: i wonder how many people are banned for similar posts to this lets be honest toss has a rather large adv against current zerg. is it the zvp understanding? possibly as you sometimes see zergs crush toss but more often then not forcefields allow for a decent turtle god army that zergs struggle with or tech paths are hidden for a classic toss 2 base all in not trolling i just think your comment is a bit flamebait considering zergs units/openings are boring and obvious where toss can do MANY dif openers that require dif responses. oh and i agree at times SH are complete bull but a good player can just constantly attack dif locations and really outplay SH zerg Let's be honest, no. Zerg is just fine. If toss turtles all game then you go swarmhost/mass static defense and win. If tech paths are hidden, scout them. Scout the timing of +1, scout units, probe count, scout gas mining, etc. A good player will know most of the time. The better player wins most of the time currently. Also I'm pretty sure Teo didn't have balance in mind when he said that. More of a poke at the design of certain swarmhosty units. | ||
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Gr33n
Bahamas113 Posts
im fairly sure once toss understand that sky toss is the best late game tech swap we will start seeing that 11 percent adv increase to a bit more. - swarmhosts attack ground - broodlords attack ground - roaches banes lings ultras attack ground the toss who sit on collosi and cry about swarmhosts and broods make me laugh a bit but when i watch toss tech to highly upg'd skytoss with storm drops its just a steamroll. zerg has very weak anti air and its tough to win an air battle vs such massive air range advantages as well as its hard to take more then 4 bases when toss are doing immortal storm and just avoid the swarmhosts. there is a reason zergs have tried ultra infestor ling. mobility is very important and i consider most low to high level masters (and some gm) toss to be "turtle a move" players who ruin the stats by improperly dealing with swarm hosts. if you watch HERO make a joke out of zergs with his blink stalker mobility vs swarm hosts you will wonder why everyone isnt doing this. the answer is everyone CANT do that. its VERY easy for a zerg to make 20 swarm hosts and sit in front of a toss 3rd. its "harder" for that toss to send the stalkers and MSC around the map sniping bases with high templar in a warp prism and just CRUSH any hydra/roach army is sent to deal with them stats dont lie especially when considering that toss has less pros playing it then the other races (due to it being weak in WoL or a less "outplay you multi task race" who knows) | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
For now, I have one specific question for Teoita. I've been experimenting with a 5 stalker rush with gas steal into 3 gate with whatever tech I feel is best for the situation and I'm currently on a 12 game win streak in PvP. My thoughts behind it are: If he builds a mothership core and expands, I should be able to kill the nexus with 3 gate pressure or at least pick off some stuff while teching(I can provide replays when I get home). If he reactively chronoboosts warpgate to put on pressure I should be able to see it with an initial stalker poke and prepare accordingly with sentries since he won't have his initial units out as fast as I do and his first unit is very likely to be a zealot attacking the assimilator in his base. In other words his choices can be: - tech and ignore early defense which makes my 5 stalker push game winning in some situations. - mothership core expand which leaves them with very late tech while I'm already teching (to stargate usually because I feel like it punishes a core expand the hardest) - chrono warpgate and attack which I just need to hold while making probies and teching It's been working for me at masters level and I haven't run into anything that really screws me over hard. Obviously I don't do it if I see double assimilator, instead I'd do a 3 stalker opening with tech after my first stalker. Any feedback, criticism, thoughts? PS: sometimes I even see if they're chronoboosting warpgate or not if their cyber core is in vision range of my assimilator. And I think I can always see whether or not they're making a core. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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cwshang
Malaysia7 Posts
i opened with a staandard 13gate 15 assimilator X 2. and planning to expo at 23/26 , but the 1st reaper arrive before my 1st stalker. but when he have 5 , i only have 2 stlaker. and i cant defend against tat . im looking for suggestions. thanks | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On July 30 2013 18:18 cwshang wrote: Hi there, im having a problem currently. i just met a terren that do proxy 2 rax mass reaper rush. i opened with a staandard 13gate 15 assimilator X 2. and planning to expo at 23/26 , but the 1st reaper arrive before my 1st stalker. but when he have 5 , i only have 2 stlaker. and i cant defend against tat . im looking for suggestions. thanks can you post a replay? also where's your mothership core? | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
On July 30 2013 06:10 Teoita wrote: I like to look at it this way: zerg get dumb units, we get baller, manly as hell units. Thats why I love this thread lol. Sorry to ask again: But how do you personally deal with 10gate into 3 gate pressure in PvP? I still die to a lot of fast rushes and cheeses in PvP and I'm currently at 34% PvP, preventing me to enter Master again. My PvZ and PvT are very solid atm. Any extremely safe & solid builds in PvP you can recommend? Are DT expands with a robo advisable atm? | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On July 30 2013 21:53 Bahajinbo wrote: Thats why I love this thread lol. Sorry to ask again: But how do you personally deal with 10gate into 3 gate pressure in PvP? I still die to a lot of fast rushes and cheeses in PvP and I'm currently at 34% PvP, preventing me to enter Master again. My PvZ and PvT are very solid atm. Any extremely safe & solid builds in PvP you can recommend? Are DT expands with a robo advisable atm? 10 gate into 3 gate is a very aggressive build that you need to scout and react to before it's killing you. If you choose not to scout and then do a tech build, you need to get an early sentry and hold your ramp, not allowing any units in. If you elect not to do that, then you're going to lose to it automatically. If you scout a 10 gate, you should expect aggression, cut a probe or two to get your stuff out quicker, and get a sentry or two to hold your ramp. Your opponent has sacrificed his economy and tech to get his rush out quicker, so all you need to do is stall until you can hold the rush. Get your mothership core to 100 energy if you can as well. Any tech path can hold this attack as long as you recognize it and manage to hit your forcefields. | ||
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
On July 30 2013 14:19 mizU wrote: K so first of all, you decide to do a double gas opener, which is fine, but then you added a second gate and then got a quick robo. 2 gate robo is a really middle of the road build. Either go for 3 gate robo and try to pressure (which still isn't a good idea) or 1 gate FE. With the advent of the mothership core, it's a lot easier to defend pressure, than to put it on. There's no need for a second gate, especially if he doesn't have one. The way the timing works out with a two gate robo nexus like you did is that a strong 1 base timing will hit before your nexus finishes, so you'll have to cancel it regardless. You also barely scouted him, even though you found his proxy pylon. PvP is all about scouting, you should send your first observer that you have, even if he has DTs, they won't do enough damage before you can chrono out a second one. You need at least 4 gates when you expand, you can even go up to 5, but you were lacking production, and with a smaller army, it's really tough to deal with VRs. Also you kept deciding to push out and fight his army (which gives you no benefit). Had you scouted him, you would've known he was one basing, and you could've added some gates and even cannons. SO. SCOUT Expand early, or don't expand. (unless you scout your opponent expanding) SCOUT (see their lack of expansion) DEFEND WIN This is good advice, especially the one gate expand part or not expanding until 4 gates (and robo?). How do I defend a fourgate with one gate expand though? And should I still build robo around the same time? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:08 LiSAuCE wrote: This is good advice, especially the one gate expand part or not expanding until 4 gates (and robo?). How do I defend a fourgate with one gate expand though? And should I still build robo around the same time? You don't, thats what scouting is for. Thats why you usually see pros build sentry as their first or second unit to get a hallucinated phoenix out asap before making any big decisions like that. Probe ----> minute or so of no info ---> phoenix scout that should be your plan in PvP and react accordingly to what they are doing | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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