EPTBeen looking around and I cant seem to find it. Is it the same as thorzains tvp push?
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 79
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
Been looking around and I cant seem to find it. Is it the same as thorzains tvp push? | ||
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skaffaNL
Netherlands55 Posts
On May 16 2013 20:30 A Wild Sosd wrote: Does anyone have the maruader hellbat build order that gumiho did in the ro16? Been looking around and I cant seem to find it. Is it the same as thorzains tvp push? I don't think its really a build, just something he did to react what was happening in the game. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 16 2013 12:27 chutjaihehe2 wrote: what would be a good response to nexus first when you've already gone barracks? Depends if you took gas or not. Gas 12 → you should be able to kill 5-6 Probes with your first Reaper and equalize easily. Gas 13 → Marine/Bunker pressure + drop Mine (if you scout it in time, you can even proxy the Mine drop). Gas 15 → probably third before rax #2 and #3 after your Mine drop. Gasless → possibly Marine/Bunker pressure + double expand. On May 16 2013 12:50 NoZyneighbor wrote: Hey Dwf I was wondering if there is a way to hold the roach bane ling all in without the use of tanks and only bio mine. As I played a game where I scouted the zerg going for his third, and when he pushed me away with a couple of roaches he canceled his third and went allin. He placed down his third around the 7min Should I have scaned or kept my reaper hellion force outside his ramp and see his move out? Yes, you can hold it without Tanks. Yes, your Reaper/Hellions commando has to be in front of their bases to see Roaches moving out. Prepare Bunkers/Mines/Marauders as soon as you see them. You can check Hack vs Effort, Star Station, Code A and Polt vs IdrA, Akilon Wastes, WCS America. If you want to see a defence with a Tank detour, check Polt vs Goswser, Cloud Kingdom, WCS America (naturally better on maps in which the Tank can safely fire from the highground while covering most of the natural). On May 16 2013 17:37 korsarz wrote: 4 rax --> 5.30/45 you go out and pressure him. focus nexus. if he launches that cannon, go to his main, kill probes. when you are leaving your base, make 1 bunker and oc in natural. watch out for proxied oracles (nexus first may be a bait) TLO's 6 rax allin. Unless Sentries were removed from the game unbeknownst to me, you won't walk up the ramp, so the Nexus will slowly kill your push and you will be left miles behind without any hope to catch up. On May 16 2013 20:11 wag_ wrote: Against Zerg : - Wall third with depots (can be done on most map) - Bunker - Widow mines - Hellions (If you keep them alive) Against Terran : - Sensor tower (so you can see drops/troops coming to your third) - Anti air tower - 1 well placed siege tank - 1 well placed widow mine (for drops, can kill a medivac or put it at 10hp, then the anti air tower will finish it) Against Protoss : Well, you want a good map control so he can't just rush your third. In case of zealots/dt drops, you want your viking to kill the prism as fast as you can and 1 turret in your minerals line for DTs. This. Against Protoss, a Bunker surrounded by depots is also helpful against Zealots raids. On May 16 2013 20:30 A Wild Sosd wrote: Does anyone have the maruader hellbat build order that gumiho did in the ro16? Been looking around and I cant seem to find it. Is it the same as thorzains tvp push? You mean his 2-base Hellbats/Marauders all-in against LosirA on Whirlwind? | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
On May 17 2013 05:21 Chaggi wrote: Does anyone feel that Hellbats are maybe a bit too strong? I've been using hellbats in my composition more and more lately, and while I normally have a 34-38% win rate in TvP (consistently since WoL if I play standard), when I add hellbats into my composition, 1 reactor'd @ 3 base, and 2-3 reactor'd at 4+ bases, my engagements are just REALLY cost effective and a lot of games feels really easy, and I'm just not sure if it's how strong the hellbat is now... League? MMM+ghost/viking is plain better with micro. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On May 17 2013 05:50 PanzerElite wrote: League? MMM+ghost/viking is plain better with micro. All pro-terrans are adding in hell-bats TvP once in the mid-game. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On May 17 2013 05:21 Chaggi wrote: Does anyone feel that Hellbats are maybe a bit too strong? I've been using hellbats in my composition more and more lately, and while I normally have a 34-38% win rate in TvP (consistently since WoL if I play standard), when I add hellbats into my composition, 1 reactor'd @ 3 base, and 2-3 reactor'd at 4+ bases, my engagements are just REALLY cost effective and a lot of games feels really easy, and I'm just not sure if it's how strong the hellbat is now... No. You're just so used to having a 34-38% winrate that coming out ahead in an engagement is shocking to you. | ||
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Strykerz
United States85 Posts
On May 17 2013 06:26 Whatson wrote: All pro-terrans are adding in hell-bats TvP once in the mid-game. Hellbats are entirely necessary in hots. The major problem with tvp late game in in WOL was terran would be able to take out protoss' army, but the warp in of 20 chargelots would push the terran back and protoss would eventually overwhelm. With hellbats on the field, now if terran beats the protoss army down we have the ability to push forward and capitalize over the win rather than stagger back home to fix our unit comp vs the next protoss deathball. To answer the original question, hellbats aren't in need of a nerf, terran should be allowed to have a unit they can watch attack and not be garbage like the thor. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On May 17 2013 05:50 PanzerElite wrote: League? MMM+ghost/viking is plain better with micro. It's going to say like mid Diamond on my profile but I'm a low masters that dropped down due to inactivity, I'll be back up after I finish my exam on Saturday. Engagements just go really really smoothly for me, and I don't have to micro as much. I have MMM+hellbats+ghost/viking, so it's not like I'm negating anything else. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1153 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 17 2013 08:54 SHODAN wrote: question is about CC first vs. the fastest possible proxy oracle --> assuming that I see no warp research at 3:35-3:40, what is the optimal order in which to build the bunker, raxx #3 and the engineering bay? I don't have much experience with CC first vP. my instinct is to 1) get a bunker #1 down at my natural (or main ramp), 2) raxx #3, 3) bunker #2 in my mineral line instead of an extremely quick turret. I understand turrets are necessary to defend a follow-up voidray/oracle/gateway all-in, but surely getting x3 marines is just as important? 4 marines in the bunker will have equal the DPS to a turret. turrets have a superior range (7 to 5+1), but you can micro load/unload marines if the oracle finds a sweet spot around your mineral line. is this a viable way of buying time vs oracles? See OP Q. Are gasless expands still viable?  | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On May 15 2013 06:37 Soldier92 wrote: From what I've seen a lot of pros (Flash, Heart, Bomber) are switching into a reaper expand with a fast eng bay. The build I've seen flash use is 12 rax 12 gas (pull guys out at 100 gas) 15 oc 15 reaper 17 cc 18 depot 18 reactor (put guys back in gas) bunker eng. bay (around 30 gas mined so that you can get +1 immediately) 6:00 2 rax (double TL when finished) 2nd gas factory 3rd gas after tech labs stim +1 armor starport +reactor factory combat shields 4th gas From here it's pretty standard, push when your upgrades and Medis finish. either add 2 rax or a 3rd cc while you get your armory and 2/2. Just played a couple of games with this and love it. The early upgrades are killer. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8246 Posts
On May 16 2013 07:11 geokilla wrote: How do I beat Terran Mech? Going bio, all he has to do is 1A into me and win. Just now on Star Station close by air spawns, my harass did fairly well so I built a bigger army and decided to attack him at 100 supply before things got out of hand. But nope, that didn't work well and he held, thus allowing him to max out for his 1A push at the end of the game. I understand my defense was pretty bad against his Hellion runbys, but that didn't seem to matter much as we both maxed out at the same time. http://drop.sc/334995 No love for bio vs mech? | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
You maxed at the same time. That's bad if you're the bio player, you should be maxed before him, and your upgrades weren't as good as they could have been. First engagement ~12:50, you push with three tanks leaving two behind to catch up, but you siege so that 2 of the three tanks only get one shot off the entire engagement. You also moved all your bio in a clump, stutter-stepping right into hellbats just to kill 1 tank. Spread out your bio and siege closer to his army. After the engagement, you also leave your four tanks by themselves out in the open, if you're trying to play bio-tank vs mech, you need to retain tanks. You also stopped producing SCVs (staying around 44) and didn't pay close attention to your ebay, so your not as far ahead in upgrades as you should be. And after that failed drop + him taking a fourth before you, you're in a very very bad spot. Good thing is you kill the PF, but your fourth never gets up and running either. He was ahead or even in supply with you the entire game, not good. Engagement at ~23:10, once again you stim all your bio and move in a giant clump. Spread. Same thing at ~24:20, it's okay for him as a mech player to move his hellbats in a clump because those are expendable and cheap to produce, they're meant as a meat-shield for the tanks to do the real damage. As a bio player, you have to split. When you start your engagement half your bio isn't even firing at anything they're doing their animation thing in the back. Same thing at the very end, over-stimmed bio moving in a clump towards a spread out line of siege tanks is never ever a good idea. Higher medivac count would help, also you never really got above 3-base and 44 scvs, one-base ahead is the rule bio vs mech. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On May 17 2013 05:21 Chaggi wrote: Does anyone feel that Hellbats are maybe a bit too strong? I've been using hellbats in my composition more and more lately, and while I normally have a 34-38% win rate in TvP (consistently since WoL if I play standard), when I add hellbats into my composition, 1 reactor'd @ 3 base, and 2-3 reactor'd at 4+ bases, my engagements are just REALLY cost effective and a lot of games feels really easy, and I'm just not sure if it's how strong the hellbat is now... its not just hellbats making the composition stronger. many protoss players haven't adapted to terrans adding in hellbats yet and expect to still be able to just 1a storm storm storm and comfortably win a lategame engagement. the protoss player needs to hold his zealots back until colossi/storm have whittled down the hellbat numbers, but most protoss players let their zealots charge in and pretty much instantly die to hellbats | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 17 2013 05:21 Chaggi wrote: Does anyone feel that Hellbats are maybe a bit too strong? I've been using hellbats in my composition more and more lately, and while I normally have a 34-38% win rate in TvP (consistently since WoL if I play standard), when I add hellbats into my composition, 1 reactor'd @ 3 base, and 2-3 reactor'd at 4+ bases, my engagements are just REALLY cost effective and a lot of games feels really easy, and I'm just not sure if it's how strong the hellbat is now... Hellbats are only a nuisance in TvT. On May 17 2013 08:54 SHODAN wrote: question is about CC first vs. the fastest possible proxy oracle --> assuming that I see no warp research at 3:35-3:40, what is the optimal order in which to build the bunker, raxx #3 and the engineering bay? I don't have much experience with CC first vP. my instinct is to 1) get a bunker #1 down at my natural (or main ramp), 2) raxx #3, 3) bunker #2 in my mineral line instead of an extremely quick turret. I understand turrets are necessary to defend a follow-up voidray/oracle/gateway all-in, but surely getting x3 marines is just as important? 4 marines in the bunker will have equal the DPS to a turret. turrets have a superior range (7 to 5+1), but you can micro load/unload marines if the oracle finds a sweet spot around your mineral line. is this a viable way of buying time vs oracles? Bunker on highground then Bunker near the mineral line, you have to start this one at ~4'35 so it's ready when the first Oracle arrives. Continuous Marine production in all cases. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On May 18 2013 11:46 Carmine wrote: Has anyone tried in TvP opening reactored hellions? It seems like it would do very good since most protoss are skipping early units in favor of the mothership core and a stalker or something. Also widow mines would strengthen the build relative to how it was in WOL where it required a starport for AA or how it was weak to gateway pressure. well, normal reactor hellions are out way too late but gas first reactor helions still win vs nexus first | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
I am a noob terran and have a micro question: Consider this: I have my marine marauder medivac army on hotkey 1, the vikings on hk2 and ghosts on 3 (or ravens). Most of the time i just follow-command a random maru with the vikings and the ghosts. My question: If i want to drop with a medivac, how should i load it up and hotkey it for maximum efficiency? Atm: I select group 1, shift-click on medivac to remove it from group 1 (and assign the selection as new group 1), then box a few marines marauder and right click on it. Then i move or stop group 1 to break the follow command of the remaining units. The selected medivac will then be send on the way with a few waypoints and an unload command. Then i ignore the drop entirely and try to engage the opponents main army when he tries to split it to deal with said drop. Improvements: Should i change something or is there a better way to do it? Thanks for your time. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
Should this tell me anything about what he may be planning on doing? Or is it very standard and I need more information to get anything from it? Im guessing if I see no double gas at the natural he will be attempting an immortal bust with not many sentries? Also has anyone tried out Gumihos Bio Tank TvP style. I have seen flash and mvp do it as well but how does it hold up against the cheese of the ladder? | ||
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