|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Need some seriously help holding off all-ins in TvP, I just don't understand how I can hold stuff like this. I feel like you need maphacks to even have a chance vs builds like this. Here's the replay.
http://drop.sc/398784
Second pylon proxy oracle, I scout it and build my CC on the high ground, get a bunker at the front and a turret in my main, deflect the initial proxy with ease. Scout pretty heavily to see what he's going for behind this, eventually I see him get a nexus (but not until after my orbital is finished), start to macro out of the hyper defense mode. Later I run in with my reaper and see him hiding some gateways just as warp gate finishes, and I'm a bit afraid of some kind of fake / cancelled nexus into gateway bust so I have to keep my units at the ramp (or lose the game as he walks up). As a result his oracles manage to get a few SCV kills, I think ~8? But it shouldn't be enough for me to be out of the game. He goes into 6 gate mass blink stalker with no upgrades vs 1/0 bio with medivac support and precedes to kill my army as soon as I start to move out, then run across the map and win the game.
Honestly, I just don't understand what I was supposed to do vs this. The only thing I can think of is after seeing how many stalkers he had, I should just sit back and hope he wasn't going to tech out of it? I could have dropped some scans I guess, but looking at the replay I wasn't even really at a worker advantage. It's super frustrating to hold off wave after wave of insta-win buttons and then just lose the moment I start to feel safe.
|
On May 04 2015 12:41 Oleum wrote:
Is it possible to not play tank in TvT ? I HATE the tank wall vs tank wall where the first who get bored and attack lose the game.
In the last week, I played at least 30 TvT matches (70% win rate). Most went marine/tank into tank/viking/marine. And I usually win after a long boring game of siege/unsiege, crawling forward. I'm so bored of this matchup that I'm seriously thinking to stop playing starcraft.
Unless you're playing pure bio vs mech, no. But Tanks are not your problem. Your issue is most likely that you're an impatient player lacking the knowledge to circumvent defence. Watch some TvT pro games, particularly the ones who end up with doomdrops (e. g. FanTaSy vs TaeJa, Expedition Lost, Showmatch #RottiShowmatches Day 2). If you still want to play without Tanks (and thus lose to Tanks), you can draw some inspiration from Mvp vs YoDa, Ohana, IEM World Championship; Bomber vs jjakji, Alterzim, IEM Sao Paulo; and Bomber vs Polt, Alterzim, LSC3 (in the last two cases, legit because of the huge map). Be warned that barring 3OC builds on the cross spawns of the huge 4p maps, all things being equal you will lose all your games against players who know who to use Tanks.
On May 06 2015 01:03 GingerAle wrote:
Hey i'm just curious if anyone has 1 or 2 good cheeses for all matchups (hopefully they're basically the same). I need some good cheeses when I'm playing the same person multiple times lol.
Proxy Reapers and 11/11 are playable in all match-ups, in different ways and with various transitions. Obviously they work much better in TvZ than in TvP and TvT, but if you absolutely want the same basic cheese(s) for the 3 match-ups regardless of their “ultimate viability,” here you go.
On May 06 2015 01:39 SonGoku wrote:
TvZ: on what information do I decide to go hellbats instead of widowmines and vice versa? I watched flashs stream today and he was varying these two units from game to game but I couldnt find out WHY he was doing it?
Unless you know that your opponent “abuses” with high lings low banes compositions, none. 4M is superior in most aspects in standard games. Most likely Flash favored bio/Hellbats during a long time because he doesn't like the tombola aspect of Mines, probably until the reality of his decreasing TvZ winrate came back in his face. But then old habits don't die easily, and in a streaming session you can play what you prefer instead of what works best.
On May 10 2015 02:04 FlaShuuu wrote:
Hi,
I struggle a lot against some cheese, and the core of the why is because i have so much difficulty to repair quickly my bunkers. Before all i'm master in each races, so the answer might be obvious but it's not and if you are master you probably understand why. Some cheese are very strong and come fast and you have to react instantly and perfectly.
Sometime it's ok like you see the roaches coming, so in the case i'm ok :
i put units in my bunker, i circle scv around, i click auto repair, i press Hold position.
But sometime i see it lastly, so i try to do react quickly, but :
- I have to burrow mines, split, fill bunker, pull scv, ... lot of work
- Most of the time as i'm faster with my kerboard i select scv and press repair on my bunker and then do the rest
BUT
Once they repaired it they stop repair and my opponent focus it and kill it fast.
OR
I click on auto repair even if i dont like clicking things ( no way to activate it without clicking ? ) but then they repair each other or supply depot beside, then my opponent will re-focus bunker and kill it while my scv repair other things...
So, here the question, what is for you, precisely, the good order of actions ? There is no other ways that circle then hold position then auto repair ( by clicking ) ?
Shift click repair the Bunker several times.
On May 12 2015 19:18 Pursuit_ wrote:Need some seriously help holding off all-ins in TvP, I just don't understand how I can hold stuff like this. I feel like you need maphacks to even have a chance vs builds like this. Here's the replay. http://drop.sc/398784Second pylon proxy oracle, I scout it and build my CC on the high ground, get a bunker at the front and a turret in my main, deflect the initial proxy with ease. Scout pretty heavily to see what he's going for behind this, eventually I see him get a nexus (but not until after my orbital is finished), start to macro out of the hyper defense mode. Later I run in with my reaper and see him hiding some gateways just as warp gate finishes, and I'm a bit afraid of some kind of fake / cancelled nexus into gateway bust so I have to keep my units at the ramp (or lose the game as he walks up). As a result his oracles manage to get a few SCV kills, I think ~8? But it shouldn't be enough for me to be out of the game. He goes into 6 gate mass blink stalker with no upgrades vs 1/0 bio with medivac support and precedes to kill my army as soon as I start to move out, then run across the map and win the game. Honestly, I just don't understand what I was supposed to do vs this. The only thing I can think of is after seeing how many stalkers he had, I should just sit back and hope he wasn't going to tech out of it? I could have dropped some scans I guess, but looking at the replay I wasn't even really at a worker advantage. It's super frustrating to hold off wave after wave of insta-win buttons and then just lose the moment I start to feel safe.
Haha, the joys of SC2 TvP. You simply got “tricked”. As soon as Protoss expands, you have to reclaim your natural too. After that, you have to remain defensive until the window of his all-in is gone. Don't listen to the “gate units is shit” nonsensical vulgate, things snowball extremely fast (particularly with the explosive material of Blink Stalkers) until you have 4 Medivacs and a certain “critical mass”. Things like this “simply” come down to game sense; it's coinflippy and extremely unforgiving, but once you figure it out it's easily stopped. I had absurd winrates against builds like that, which fundamentally are bad but rely on “hyper-development tricks”. If you fall into the trap (as you did by remaining too long in your main, then going out too early on the map), you're toast and they either win or get away with a free “get out of jail” card. If you hit every decision perfectly, F2 1A T at the right timing completely rolls them. You can draw some inspiration from Flash vs PartinG, Foxtrot, HSC X where Flash would have won easily had he simply researched +1 attack.
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina27 Posts
Hi,
It's been a long time since I posted here. I have a few questions, mainly about TvZ
With the new Swarm Hosts TvZ has been a pain in the ass to me (my winrate went from 68% to 50%). That somehow frustrated me so i stopped playing. Anyway,
How do I deal with Broodlord Corruptor?.
How can I play aggressive Mech? I don't like to turtle until i get a deathball. I'd love to be more aggressive, but i simple can't because i don't know how to.
How do I positionate my army when I attack? In the middle of the map?
And how do i positionate when i defend?. Mech is slow, so i need to defend my expansions. So how can I do it?
When should I be getting my upgrades, my third, forth?
Regardless of TvP
I used to open with widow mine drop.
When should I pull the boys? I know it's before Toss get storm. So should it be around 13-14ish?
I'd post replays but i've posted them and no one really watched them so is kinda pointless
Thanks in advance.
|
On May 10 2015 10:00 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 02:04 FlaShuuu wrote:
Hi,
I struggle a lot against some cheese, and the core of the why is because i have so much difficulty to repair quickly my bunkers. Before all i'm master in each races, so the answer might be obvious but it's not and if you are master you probably understand why. Some cheese are very strong and come fast and you have to react instantly and perfectly.
Sometime it's ok like you see the roaches coming, so in the case i'm ok :
i put units in my bunker, i circle scv around, i click auto repair, i press Hold position.
But sometime i see it lastly, so i try to do react quickly, but :
- I have to burrow mines, split, fill bunker, pull scv, ... lot of work
- Most of the time as i'm faster with my kerboard i select scv and press repair on my bunker and then do the rest
BUT
Once they repaired it they stop repair and my opponent focus it and kill it fast.
OR
I click on auto repair even if i dont like clicking things ( no way to activate it without clicking ? ) but then they repair each other or supply depot beside, then my opponent will re-focus bunker and kill it while my scv repair other things...
So, here the question, what is for you, precisely, the good order of actions ? There is no other ways that circle then hold position then auto repair ( by clicking ) ? Ideally you have an scv or marine below the ramp granting vision. Since you're master, I'm assuming something went wrong with your build's scouting options so somehow they made it entirely crossmap before you scouted it. Maybe the reaper was busy scouting some other area/sniping drones and the roach warren was hidden. Select SCVS -> Right Click Bunker -> Shift-HoldPositionKey -> Alt-RepairKey *** SCVs surround bunker, holding position and repairing as they reach it. Queueing up the hold command and AutoRepair before SCVs reach it frees you up to split/save/micro widow mines and other units. Note: You can rally them back away after right click(/hold) to repair bunker to full then auto retreat a tiny bit and start repairing each other away from the front lines. This is obviously not fully applicable in most attacks where you'll be more focused on retreating injured scvs singly or as the situation demands. Just a good note in other matchups where you want them to repair each other back a pace and be ready to Right-Click+Hold. For me, its RClick->ShiftF
Thanks mate, 4 years of sc2 and i never knew that alt+repairkey activate auto-repair, how i miss that ...
My life will never be the same.
|
How good is Bomber's build that we saw in his last TvZ games (cc, rax, late gas, cc into 1 siegetank)? Does it have any weakness? How can this build work against a good prepared player (most likely knowing that you are doing that build)?
|
On May 13 2015 05:30 Barracuda8 wrote:
Hi,
It's been a long time since I posted here. I have a few questions, mainly about TvZ
With the new Swarm Hosts TvZ has been a pain in the ass to me (my winrate went from 68% to 50%). That somehow frustrated me so i stopped playing. Anyway,
How do I deal with Broodlord Corruptor?.
How can I play aggressive Mech? I don't like to turtle until i get a deathball. I'd love to be more aggressive, but i simple can't because i don't know how to.
How do I positionate my army when I attack? In the middle of the map?
And how do i positionate when i defend?. Mech is slow, so i need to defend my expansions. So how can I do it?
When should I be getting my upgrades, my third, forth?
Regardless of TvP
I used to open with widow mine drop.
When should I pull the boys? I know it's before Toss get storm. So should it be around 13-14ish?
I'd post replays but i've posted them and no one really watched them so is kinda pointless
Thanks in advance.
Quick answers before more qualified players than me answer :
TvZ : a cool agressive build is what Maru did against Life in Proleague round 2 play off on Expedition Lost (check wikipedia to find the vod). It's a 1 rax expand into 3rd CC into a blue flame timing. You follow with 3-4 thors and then tanks/vikings. You can push at around 150 food. It dies horribly to unscouted 2 base muta though (check Maru vs ByuL Proleague round 2 finals)
The rest of your question are very situational, hard to answer here, all I can tell you is it's a good idea to expand toward your opponent, to be able to attack and defend at the same time. Maps where expansions are spread out and far away from your opponent are usually bad for mech.
TvP:
If you go for mine drops, don't pull the boys at all. Keep harassing, switch to viking when colossi are out (or don't if you think you can micro like Maru).
Check INno vs Terminator GSL 2015 season 1 game 1 and Dream vs Super SSL 2015 season 1 ro8 game 2 and 3 for the standard style.
Check any Maru vs protoss game for the advanced no viking strategy. It's based on his ability to snipe colossi over and over until he attacks for the final blow.
|
i fear i may be getting burned out on sc2 so i would like to remedy that by playing around with some outrageous builds...
...and there is nothing more outrageous than the Thor!
are there any Thor-rush builds for TvP (e.g., something that might be found in a hypothetical "Great Book of Terran Bull****")? i'm not looking for pro-level, "viable" builds - just rough sketches that have been used with moderate success (at lower leagues)
a google search turned up a few such builds from WoL but none that were written after the release of HotS - i thought i'd check with this fine group given that TvP strategies involving early-aggression were affected greatly by mothership core/photon overcharge.
|
Hi fellows,
I recently joined the ranks of diamond players. I guess that means either that I was lucky or that I learned how to macro a little bit better.
However,
I am currently working on doing multitasking while not messing up my build (by which I mean to spend the minerals/gas at the right time and having the worker count needed).
Since I have a lot of work to do with just trying not to mess up while doing harass/denying creep/getting a glimpse of what my opponent is doing I have never thought about my builds. That means that I am playing the same build in TvP and TvT since around a year (and in TvZ a build Innovation used last winter (2 Reaper, 8 Helions with 3 CC)). Let's skip TvT since I am using a cloak banshee opener with a lot of bio-tank after that and since TvT is so dynamic, I will spare you my thoughts on that.
So, let's look at my TvP-Build. This is the build I perform if the protoss decides to play a standard macro game:
+ Show Spoiler +
Opening:
- Reaper-Expand (1 Reaper) (workers out of the gas after 100 gas collected) + SCV-Scout at 13 for Proxy-Gate/Chrono-Zealott
- Bunker
- 2nd Baracks (Workers back in gas)
- 100% 2nd Baracks: TL + 2nd Gas
- 100% TL: Stim
- Next 100 Gas: Factory (+ Ebay when I collected enough minerals beside the production circles)
- 100% Ebay: Start +1
- 100% Factory: Starport + Reactor on Factory + 3rd Gas
- 3rd Baracks + 4th Gas as soon as you can afford it beside the production cost
- 100% Starport: Switch Starport to Reactor and start Building Medvacs
- 9:30 3rd CC
--> 10:00 Minutes: 50 SCVs, 100 Supply, Bio-Army with 2 Medvacs at the 3rd of the Protoss
I play a quite good and safe build from my perspective. From what I can see it is designed to gather informations with the reaper, do a poke with the first Marauder and Marines for the 1st Photon Overcharge and deny/apply pressure to the 3rd of the protoss at ~10:00.
So far for the theory and the execution which I can do quite well to this point.
While the game evolves past the 10 Minute mark there are several different protoss players. Some try to take their 3rd, some will canon themself in to never ever get dropped and some will try to get Colossus + Storm before Expanding.
My Questions are:
Are there any reasons why I should not do this build?
Are there shortcomings to this built which I can't compensate for with what I still have to learn (better multitasking, better dropplay)?
Have I missed a crucial point of this build?
If they expand and I can't deny the 3rd, how do I apply pressure (especially if there are Stalkers waiting at possible drop locations in the main/natural base)?
|
On May 13 2015 10:34 dchaudh wrote:
i fear i may be getting burned out on sc2 so i would like to remedy that by playing around with some outrageous builds...
...and there is nothing more outrageous than the Thor!
are there any Thor-rush builds for TvP (e.g., something that might be found in a hypothetical "Great Book of Terran Bull****")? i'm not looking for pro-level, "viable" builds - just rough sketches that have been used with moderate success (at lower leagues)
a google search turned up a few such builds from WoL but none that were written after the release of HotS - i thought i'd check with this fine group given that TvP strategies involving early-aggression were affected greatly by mothership core/photon overcharge.
There is a gas first thor build in TvP you can open but it only transition into mech ^^
|
On May 13 2015 10:34 dchaudh wrote:
i fear i may be getting burned out on sc2 so i would like to remedy that by playing around with some outrageous builds...
...and there is nothing more outrageous than the Thor!
are there any Thor-rush builds for TvP (e.g., something that might be found in a hypothetical "Great Book of Terran Bull****")? i'm not looking for pro-level, "viable" builds - just rough sketches that have been used with moderate success (at lower leagues)
a google search turned up a few such builds from WoL but none that were written after the release of HotS - i thought i'd check with this fine group given that TvP strategies involving early-aggression were affected greatly by mothership core/photon overcharge.
Well, technically any form of factory opening can get a thor (111, any variation : gas first, gas after rax, factory after expand.. can get an armory after the starport or replace the starport with the armory). However you'll basically die to everything a protoss can do on 1 base, and most things on 2. The time where an early thor could hold most TvP stuff died long ago
|
Hey guys!
I am looking for recent (like at most past 2-3 months) vods or replays of Bio vs Mech in TvT. I want to study how to play vs Mech as Bio and which strategies you can use. Thanks alot for the help! 
|
Hello, Terran diamond on EU here.
I'm having a really hard time against one base all-ins in TvT. Today I got proxy thor rushed twice in a row, I lost the first time and barely won with a base trade on the second one thanks to my 2 tanks because I was gonna 1 base push. I don't want to resort to that kind of builds though, I'm sure there must be some way to defend these all-ins with a standard 1 reaper expend. I also got destroyed by a 2 tanks 1 viking 1 raven marines push on one base and I'm not sure I can defend that even with perfect micro, but maybe I'm wrong.
So I guess my question is: What is the correct response to one base all-in, assuming 1 reaper expend with cc on the lowground, and assuming proper scouting from my part? I assume I need to pull scv to buffer with my army but I'm lost on what units I should make, what units to focus... Should I focus the thor or the scv repairing if thor rushed? Should I go for the marines or the tanks in a tank-marines push? Thanks guys.
|
On May 20 2015 09:25 fastr wrote:
Hello, Terran diamond on EU here.
I'm having a really hard time against one base all-ins in TvT. Today I got proxy thor rushed twice in a row, I lost the first time and barely won with a base trade on the second one thanks to my 2 tanks because I was gonna 1 base push. I don't want to resort to that kind of builds though, I'm sure there must be some way to defend these all-ins with a standard 1 reaper expend. I also got destroyed by a 2 tanks 1 viking 1 raven marines push on one base and I'm not sure I can defend that even with perfect micro, but maybe I'm wrong.
So I guess my question is: What is the correct response to one base all-in, assuming 1 reaper expend with cc on the lowground, and assuming proper scouting from my part? I assume I need to pull scv to buffer with my army but I'm lost on what units I should make, what units to focus... Should I focus the thor or the scv repairing if thor rushed? Should I go for the marines or the tanks in a tank-marines push? Thanks guys.
I always scout on 14 even if I go reaper. So if you scout gas first and see no factory immediately after the rax is done you know it's proxy. Just send your reaper to the 3r and 4th base to scout for proxy. You might even be able to kill the scv building it. You will find that proxy 100% of the times and see what it is if you start searching for it immediately.
If you scout that it's a proxy thor just rush out widow mines and cloaked banshee and you will be fine.
|
On May 20 2015 03:14 forsakeNXE wrote:Hey guys! I am looking for recent (like at most past 2-3 months) vods or replays of Bio vs Mech in TvT. I want to study how to play vs Mech as Bio and which strategies you can use. Thanks alot for the help!
Sorry vs Gumiho GSL code S ro32 is one that matches your criteria, I believe. Sorry looses 2-1 in the end though. VOD
You might want to check Gumiho's run ad DH tour, although he may have played mech vs bio during that tournament (I'm not sure at all though).
Beside this, the best I can tell is to check games of : Gumiho, SkyHigh, BByong and Reality, they're the terrans that go mech the most often I believe.
Last, although it's old and played on disappeared maps, the GSL 2014 season 3 semi between INnoVation (mech) and CURE (bio) is definetly worth checking.
|
On May 21 2015 01:52 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:14 forsakeNXE wrote:Hey guys! I am looking for recent (like at most past 2-3 months) vods or replays of Bio vs Mech in TvT. I want to study how to play vs Mech as Bio and which strategies you can use. Thanks alot for the help! Sorry vs Gumiho GSL code S ro32 is one that matches your criteria, I believe. Sorry looses 2-1 in the end though. url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSkGxLzhOP4&index=6&list=PLFVgw8Tv8pV3dDTzUQac8ujJ_PB8dvj-H]VOD You might want to check Gumiho's run ad DH tour, although he may have played mech vs bio during that tournament (I'm not sure at all though). Beside this, the best I can tell is to check games of : Gumiho, SkyHigh, BByong and Reality, they're the terrans that go mech the most often I believe. Last, although it's old and played on disappeared maps, the GSL 2014 season 3 semi between INnoVation (mech) and CURE (bio) is definetly worth checking. [/url]
GuMiho played bio vs mech against MarineKing at DH Tours twice, that would be one (although MK's mech in those games is probably not very common). Also if you can wait a while, the final game of Flash vs Dream in GSL is probably worth your time.
I'm not sure if there's vods of it but ByuN has shown good bio vs mech in Olimoleague recently.
|
I think flash mechs in every TvT he plays? At least I can't remember the last time he played bio.
|
On May 21 2015 05:51 KonanTenshi wrote:
I think flash mechs in every TvT he plays? At least I can't remember the last time he played bio.
Generally in 2015 this has been the case. He's a good bio-tank player aswell though
|
|
|
On May 22 2015 12:48 Ty2 wrote:
What's the best way to unload and quickly unload a medivac full of units? Sometimes when I unload a medivac and then try to load it up quickly again when the enemy's units come my medivac will be loading and unloading units at the same time. What's the best way?
Select all your units and right click on the medivac.
to unload you can drop all in one place by just clicking dropping in a specific place, or you can drop while your medivac is still moving by manually clicking drop for each unit while the medivac is in motion.
|
On May 22 2015 12:48 Ty2 wrote:
What's the best way to unload and quickly unload a medivac full of units? Sometimes when I unload a medivac and then try to load it up quickly again when the enemy's units come my medivac will be loading and unloading units at the same time. What's the best way?
The only way to have your medivac dropping and picking up units simultaneously is if you drop by using the unload command on the medivac (which is, IMO, the best method for unloading), then try to pick up the units that are dropping as they drop. You can prevent this by using the stop command on the medivac (which will stop it from unloading units) before trying to pick up your units.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
