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Is there any point to play mech on the new map pool?
In the previous map pool there were two good mech maps (Deadwing and Vani Research Station) and two ok ones.
But in the new map pool only Vani Research Station is good, the rest go from bad to awful. Really hard to secure 3rd and 4th which means a really easy time for the bio or zerg opponent.
Am I missing something or is it meaningless trying to play mech in the new map pool? How do secure your third and fourth on time on these maps? Also which maps in the new pool should be kept if you play mech? I really feel I have not enough vetoes.
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On April 13 2015 00:30 MockHamill wrote:
Is there any point to play mech on the new map pool?
In the previous map pool there were two good mech maps (Deadwing and Vani Research Station) and two ok ones.
But in the new map pool only Vani Research Station is good, the rest go from bad to awful. Really hard to secure 3rd and 4th which means a really easy time for the bio or zerg opponent.
Am I missing something or is it meaningless trying to play mech in the new map pool? How do secure your third and fourth on time on these maps? Also which maps in the new pool should be kept if you play mech? I really feel I have not enough vetoes.
I don't have a direct answer to your question because I don't play mech, but you should remember that turtlemech got a huge buff against zerg with the swarmhost nerf, so you have a little more leeway to secure bases late and get away with it.
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On April 13 2015 00:30 MockHamill wrote:
Is there any point to play mech on the new map pool?
In the previous map pool there were two good mech maps (Deadwing and Vani Research Station) and two ok ones.
But in the new map pool only Vani Research Station is good, the rest go from bad to awful. Really hard to secure 3rd and 4th which means a really easy time for the bio or zerg opponent.
Am I missing something or is it meaningless trying to play mech in the new map pool? How do secure your third and fourth on time on these maps? Also which maps in the new pool should be kept if you play mech? I really feel I have not enough vetoes.
Against Zerg, you shouldnt have any problems. Zerg cant really do shit against you because of the ''wonderful'' swarmhost buff/nerf (can you actually use those new swarmhosts for ANYTHING?). Against any aggressive terran though, i do not think you have a good chance unless you get an advantage by e.g. early game pressure build like banshee (it needs to pay off so much that he cant really move out for some minutes). The only maps which could be good are Coda and Vaani
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On April 13 2015 00:56 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:30 MockHamill wrote:
Is there any point to play mech on the new map pool?
In the previous map pool there were two good mech maps (Deadwing and Vani Research Station) and two ok ones.
But in the new map pool only Vani Research Station is good, the rest go from bad to awful. Really hard to secure 3rd and 4th which means a really easy time for the bio or zerg opponent.
Am I missing something or is it meaningless trying to play mech in the new map pool? How do secure your third and fourth on time on these maps? Also which maps in the new pool should be kept if you play mech? I really feel I have not enough vetoes. I don't have a direct answer to your question because I don't play mech, but you should remember that turtlemech got a huge buff against zerg with the swarmhost nerf, so you have a little more leeway to secure bases late and get away with it.
Not everybody wants to play turtle mech tho.
I think the best way (if you don't want to turtle) is to do some 2 base timing and take your third behind it, some 4 thor/banshee/hellbat push like Bbbyong, simply make 2+ fact before third, push, take third behind it, play from there.
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On April 13 2015 00:30 MockHamill wrote:
Is there any point to play mech on the new map pool?
In the previous map pool there were two good mech maps (Deadwing and Vani Research Station) and two ok ones.
But in the new map pool only Vani Research Station is good, the rest go from bad to awful. Really hard to secure 3rd and 4th which means a really easy time for the bio or zerg opponent.
Am I missing something or is it meaningless trying to play mech in the new map pool? How do secure your third and fourth on time on these maps? Also which maps in the new pool should be kept if you play mech? I really feel I have not enough vetoes.
Lots of smaller maps with forwards thirds which is pretty good for 2-3 base timing centric mech styles. Probably not as good for the super passive never attack styles.
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If I open reaper FE and get proxy hatched at my natrual and scout it pretty fast, what is the correct response? Bunker it and place CC on high ground? Place the CC right next too it? Pull ~6 scvs to attack it? Double reaper? Cancel reaper and go straight for marines?
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On April 15 2015 03:57 NotTrulyEvil wrote:
If I open reaper FE and get proxy hatched at my natrual and scout it pretty fast, what is the correct response? Bunker it and place CC on high ground? Place the CC right next too it? Pull ~6 scvs to attack it? Double reaper? Cancel reaper and go straight for marines?
I would place the bunker as near as possible to the hatch and start marine production. If he cancels the hatch, you are ahead. If he keeps the hatch he may get a queen out, snipe the queen and/or the creep tumor, otherwise scanning and building turrets for detection is going to be annoying.
(You beat me in a tournament once, so maybe I am wrong, I do not really play much against proxy hatch :3)
Your CC needs to be placed on high ground if he does not cancel the hatch
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On April 15 2015 03:57 NotTrulyEvil wrote:
If I open reaper FE and get proxy hatched at my natrual and scout it pretty fast, what is the correct response? Bunker it and place CC on high ground? Place the CC right next too it? Pull ~6 scvs to attack it? Double reaper? Cancel reaper and go straight for marines?
Check Taeja vs Life at blizzcon, on King sejong station. you can also check INnovation vs ByuL in last week's SPL on expedition lost (he ends up loosing but he defends the inital push)
Don't watch MKP vs Byul 
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Anyone seen Flash vs Panic in SPL? Seems hard to scout and stop just thinking what to do.
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On April 15 2015 05:08 Aquila- wrote:
Anyone seen Flash vs Panic in SPL? Seems hard to scout and stop just thinking what to do.
IMO when the sentries were unloaded in Flash's natural it was too late to stop it. It has to be scouted and you have to have stuff in position. Scouting is probably difficult. Getting a money scan isn't likely (gateways are hidden, can't tell what the robo is building, 2 sentries aren't a dead giveaway), you might get a scout with a reaper if you reaper FE over CC first, if you have marines around the map to spot you might at least see the prism. I mean, I guess a pre-emptive turret at the edge of the natural at least drives it away and gives you time to get in position, but doing that blind is also silly.
Probably build a bunch of bunkers in your main while the Protoss has locked himself in the natural but I'm not sure if you have the time to, but definitely don't throw away marines by running them into FF like Flash did  .
Although it might just stop itself if you do mine drops.
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On April 15 2015 05:04 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 03:57 NotTrulyEvil wrote:
If I open reaper FE and get proxy hatched at my natrual and scout it pretty fast, what is the correct response? Bunker it and place CC on high ground? Place the CC right next too it? Pull ~6 scvs to attack it? Double reaper? Cancel reaper and go straight for marines? Check Taeja vs Life at blizzcon, on King sejong station. you can also check INnovation vs ByuL in last week's SPL on expedition lost (he ends up loosing but he defends the inital push) Don't watch MKP vs Byul
In both of those games the zerg placed their proxy hatch in another location then in the terrans natrual. I imagine the response is quite different if your natrual is blocked.
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On April 15 2015 05:51 NotTrulyEvil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 05:04 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 15 2015 03:57 NotTrulyEvil wrote:
If I open reaper FE and get proxy hatched at my natrual and scout it pretty fast, what is the correct response? Bunker it and place CC on high ground? Place the CC right next too it? Pull ~6 scvs to attack it? Double reaper? Cancel reaper and go straight for marines? Check Taeja vs Life at blizzcon, on King sejong station. you can also check INnovation vs ByuL in last week's SPL on expedition lost (he ends up loosing but he defends the inital push) Don't watch MKP vs Byul In both of those games the zerg placed their proxy hatch in another location then in the terrans natrual. I imagine the response is quite different if your natrual is blocked.
not really, it's jsut easier when it's at the natural cause you can scout it and place a bunker before the hatch finishes. Beside this, you still get your 2nd CC on high ground, make a couple of tanks, and a raven. What is cool about taeja game, is how, despite all the chaos created by the proxy hatch, he easily gets back to his fast 3 CC bio mine build.... I think day9 made a daily about this series (probably one of his last dailies :/)
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On April 15 2015 05:32 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 05:08 Aquila- wrote:
Anyone seen Flash vs Panic in SPL? Seems hard to scout and stop just thinking what to do. IMO when the sentries were unloaded in Flash's natural it was too late to stop it. It has to be scouted and you have to have stuff in position. Scouting is probably difficult. Getting a money scan isn't likely (gateways are hidden, can't tell what the robo is building, 2 sentries aren't a dead giveaway), you might get a scout with a reaper if you reaper FE over CC first, if you have marines around the map to spot you might at least see the prism. I mean, I guess a pre-emptive turret at the edge of the natural at least drives it away and gives you time to get in position, but doing that blind is also silly. Probably build a bunch of bunkers in your main while the Protoss has locked himself in the natural but I'm not sure if you have the time to, but definitely don't throw away marines by running them into FF like Flash did . Although it might just stop itself if you do mine drops.
The depot at natural is key too, to see the warp prism and get your marines in before the ramp is forcefielded. This kind of play is a concern on this map cause not only you have the sentry drop but also the colossus drop (Zest games in IEM vs Bbyong and INnoVation I think)
(I could be wrong but these warp prism work best against CC first builds or 3 rax builds, if you go mine drop opening I don't think the Protoss as enough freedom to do this... can someone confirm?)
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On April 15 2015 06:52 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 05:32 Elentos wrote:On April 15 2015 05:08 Aquila- wrote:
Anyone seen Flash vs Panic in SPL? Seems hard to scout and stop just thinking what to do. IMO when the sentries were unloaded in Flash's natural it was too late to stop it. It has to be scouted and you have to have stuff in position. Scouting is probably difficult. Getting a money scan isn't likely (gateways are hidden, can't tell what the robo is building, 2 sentries aren't a dead giveaway), you might get a scout with a reaper if you reaper FE over CC first, if you have marines around the map to spot you might at least see the prism. I mean, I guess a pre-emptive turret at the edge of the natural at least drives it away and gives you time to get in position, but doing that blind is also silly. Probably build a bunch of bunkers in your main while the Protoss has locked himself in the natural but I'm not sure if you have the time to, but definitely don't throw away marines by running them into FF like Flash did . Although it might just stop itself if you do mine drops. The depot at natural is key too, to see the warp prism and get your marines in before the ramp is forcefielded. This kind of play is a concern on this map cause not only you have the sentry drop but also the colossus drop (Zest games in IEM vs Bbyong and INnoVation I think) (I could be wrong but these warp prism work best against CC first builds or 3 rax builds, if you go mine drop opening I don't think the Protoss as enough freedom to do this... can someone confirm?)
I would assume so since mine drops force out at least 2 observers and also open up some extra scouting options.
Regarding the depot at the natural, I'm not sure Flash could have gotten his marines to his natural in time with spotting that, assuming Panic reacts quickly he should still be able to lock out a lot of units since Flash had most of his units at his main ramp.
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What variation of the 2-3 base scv pull is the best in TvP? Seems like there is a lot of versions, with 3rd, without, with ghosts etc. I'd appreciate vods 
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http://drop.sc/396371
This is a TvZ I played using Bomber's 1rax 3CC into gas build that he used to great effect vs Zergs at the end of 2014. (He also lost to Shine when he used it.  )
I feel like if my opponent had had slightly better macro (he floated over 1k mins and gas for a long time after 12:00), he would have crushed me with greater numbers of ling/bane, and I felt that it was very hard for me to catch up after he inflicted economic damage to me with his 3base attack at 12:00. I also think that my splits could use a lot of work, as I lost tons of marines to 2 or 3 banelings repeatedly. If the zerg hadn't massively thrown by parking all his overlords in the middle of the map, ensuring that they all died after I beat one of his armies, and supply blocking himself to hell, I'm pretty sure I would have lost.
Should I have remade more scvs after the 3 base attacks were over? I only went back up to 54 instead of the 65 i had before the attack.
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On April 16 2015 13:11 TheLordofAwesome wrote:http://drop.sc/396371This is a TvZ I played using Bomber's 1rax 3CC into gas build that he used to great effect vs Zergs at the end of 2014. (He also lost to Shine when he used it. ) I feel like if my opponent had had slightly better macro (he floated over 1k mins and gas for a long time after 12:00), he would have crushed me with greater numbers of ling/bane, and I felt that it was very hard for me to catch up after he inflicted economic damage to me with his 3base attack at 12:00. I also think that my splits could use a lot of work, as I lost tons of marines to 2 or 3 banelings repeatedly. If the zerg hadn't massively thrown by parking all his overlords in the middle of the map, ensuring that they all died after I beat one of his armies, and supply blocking himself to hell, I'm pretty sure I would have lost. Should I have remade more scvs after the 3 base attacks were over? I only went back up to 54 instead of the 65 i had before the attack.
Bomber didnt lose against Shine because of his build, he held the early baneling bust, and was actually on a decent position. Unfortunately he did not micro his marines at all at in the last engagement, which lost him the game.
Anyway, I watched your replay, your build execution is really off: You float lots of minerals, your timings are very off, if you already do such build, use it to its full potential, practice the build if you are going to keep playing this build. Stop also looking at the mistakes of your opponents, look at your mistakes.
If I lose a good amount of scvs I do this (Bomber's eco management): After my 2/2 starts, i cut gas mining and send the scvs to the minerals, so we get a nice saturation. It is like having 12 extra scvs. You will get looots of minerals again for fueling your production. Try to not lose the medevacs though, since they cost gas obviously. You will need the gas later for some thors in case u still didnt kill the zerg, so produce scvs.
You are playing a full bio style which only works if you have decent macro and micro. I would recommend adding widowmines since they work pretty good against lingbane or a little bit more marauder heavy and hellbat. Also practice your splits with Marine Split Challenge or Marine Control. If you can beat Marine Control, then you are ready for the full bio style engagements.
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On April 16 2015 06:04 NotTrulyEvil wrote:What variation of the 2-3 base scv pull is the best in TvP? Seems like there is a lot of versions, with 3rd, without, with ghosts etc. I'd appreciate vods
I would not recommend to do scv pulls anymore. I did not see a terran do well with them recently.
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Hi all,
(Apologies in advance if this is the wrong thread.)
Bronze/Silver Terran player here. I am losing my mind to early game Reaper harassment and I would appreciate any advice on how to deal with it while incurring minimum (or, ideally, zero) worker casualty. Please free to assume I'm a total idiot when it comes to SC2, i.e., pls spare no details.
Generally speaking, I'm just not sure how to protect my workers against a reaper and losing 3+ workers against a 12/12 Reaper FE just seems like a hopeless situation (I have been following this build in an effort to improve macro: 12 Rax / 15 Gas / 19 CC build). If I put marines around my main mineral line in response to the initial reaper (who will already have 2 or so kills by this point), my opponent usually has the reaper go after another SCV that's constructing something. And the reapers are so damn fast that it just feels hopeless =(
Here's an example of a game where I end up losing a handful of SCVs to a single reaper in the opening minutes: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5928368.
I elected not to put a bunker up because I didn't scout 2-rax - I have been facing better players lately (i.e., Gold - Diamond) and, based on a small sample size, it seems they tend to cheese more frequently than my Bronze/Silver brethren - hence the scouting) - in any case, I'm pretty sure one bunker can't cover a mineral line so I'd appreciate any tips on early-game micro.
P.S. I know I totally screw up my build in this particular game but that is something else for me to work on =) The focus of my question is reaper defense.
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On April 17 2015 02:08 SBGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2015 06:04 NotTrulyEvil wrote:What variation of the 2-3 base scv pull is the best in TvP? Seems like there is a lot of versions, with 3rd, without, with ghosts etc. I'd appreciate vods I would not recommend to do scv pulls anymore. I did not see a terran do well with them recently.
I don't think there's a problem with scv pulls. The problem is just with blind scv pulls where you play the entire game aiming to pull, i.e. you never build more than 50 workers, 11 minute 2nd starport for 4x viking production, no armory, etc. But what I do see work more often these days is play where Terran goes like 10 min third, 12 min 2nd port, plenty of vikings, continuously build workers, and then based on information from drops (like seeing a trigger like templar archives or double forge or anti-triggers like full twilight/charge/5+ colossus play) Terran chooses whether to pull scvs or to instead build 3 more rax + 4th base + armory/engineering bay. This is generally what I do in TvP which seems to work very well and I've seen many professional Terrans play in this fashion as well.
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EPT
