EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 343
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On March 04 2015 09:58 Wein wrote: Guys coming back to play since forever lol TvZ, no one uses mine anymore? Just M/M and Firebat/Thor? 4M with Thor's added vs high muta count is the standard, but there's a lot more variety in gameplay lately. We see a lot of more maurader heavy compositions, hellbat timings, banshee or hellbat / banshee openings, MMM + hellbat thor, mech in various forms, ect. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On March 04 2015 17:19 Seeker wrote: I've noticed that the opening for almost all TvPs these days is the widow mine drop. But is it possible to die from a 1 base 4 gate if you just assume the opponent is fast expanding? If you open reaper fe -> widow mine (the standard) you should be able to scout the 4 gate (or really any 1 base) coming, bunker the main and put them on a timer with the counter widow mine drop. If you're not scouting at all, you could die to a variety of things, but I think a 4 gate you could reactive hold by keeping widow mines / medivacs at home and pulling SCVs frequently. Even if you end up down in workers, threat of widow mine drops + double orbital means as long as you survive you should be in a winning position. Really I think it depends how many of your initial marines you lose when you're caught off guard. edit: The one time I've faced a 4 gate in the past ~100 TvP's or so I held easily with the first method. | ||
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Spiller
United States106 Posts
On March 04 2015 09:58 Wein wrote: Guys coming back to play since forever lol TvZ, no one uses mine anymore? Just M/M and Firebat/Thor? I could be wrong, but the way I see it is mines are higher risk/ higher reward. They are more likely to do great damage to banelings/mutas and almost auto win the game, but they are just as likely to do nothing, especially against a zerg with good control. Hellbat + Thor has a lower ceiling of damage against banelings and mutas in the fight, but they are almost guaranteed to at least tank some baneling hits and get some shots on the mutas and if you keep the hellbats alive they can do work on zerglings. So it depends on what you prefer. High risk/High reward vs. Less potential/ but some guaranteed damage | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Does anyone have the build outlined? I like opening up this fashion since I'm not getting a ton of milage out of my reapers lately TvZ and sometimes you can pick off an Overlord if you see it out of position with a scouting SCV. | ||
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imabigboi
26 Posts
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imabigboi
26 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On March 05 2015 00:18 Tenks wrote: In TvZ when you open 2 marines -> reactor what is the gas timing for the build? I was doing it on 15 and that seemed to work out well but I wasn't sure if I was screwing the build up somewhere. It also felt like my 3rd CC was delayed because the Hellion production started so quickly (spending the first 100 gas after Reactor on Fact.) Does anyone have the build outlined? I like opening up this fashion since I'm not getting a ton of milage out of my reapers lately TvZ and sometimes you can pick off an Overlord if you see it out of position with a scouting SCV. Yes, 15 gas is correct, what I personally do is rally the 13th SCV to scout and have it start a depot on 14 and rally the 14th SCV to the refinery to build the Refinery (on 15). The variation I usually use is an 8 marine drop + 4 -> 6 Hellion runbye. Build looks something like this. 10 Depot 12 Rax 14 Depot 15 Gas 16 Orbital, Marine 17 Marine, Reactor CC (orbital once completed) Depot Marine x2 (continous marine production until 8) @100% Factory- Starport @8 Marines- Swap Factory onto Reactor, make ~6 Hellions, Start Tech Lab + Stim on Barracks @100% Starport- Medivac Load marines into medivac and drop in the main while poking at the natural with Hellions. Optionally make a Viking. Reactor on Starport at some point, it's usually idle for awhile after the Viking for me. CC (orbital once completed) 2x Rax (float the factory to a new location and start a reactor with it, one barracks on the old reactor and one by the factory, when that reactor is done swap the barracks onto it and start another reactor on the factory for mine production) 2x Eng Bay (can make before the first 2 rax) 2x Rax (Reactors on these once complete) End result is slightly delayed 3rd CC and Eng Bays in exchange for that early drop + poke combo which can win games outright and pretty much always does some damage. Scouting with the SCV is really crucial because this build has some weaknesses to roach / baneling busts with the delayed hellions. I occassionally open 12 rax 12 gas, make 1 reaper (mostly for scouting) then reactor, and then do essentially the same build with a 6 marine 1 reaper drop instead. You can also try to squeeze out a widow mine before you swap the factory onto the reactor and do a 6 marine 1 mine drop. On March 05 2015 07:18 imabigboi wrote: How many workers do I need to kill in order to make losing each hellion or banshee worth it? Plz use math to explain if possible. This depends on a lot of factors such as how long you delayed your expansion in order to invest in those units, what stage of the game you're in, what match-up we're talking about, ect. As a general rule of thumb, if you kill 2 workers per hellion you're doing very well for yourself in the early stages of the game, later in the game worker kills matter much less. Banshee's are a little trickier, you really don't want to lose them in the early game vZ or vT since they add a lot of utility and defensive options, plus just the threat of them forces your opponent to invest in a decent amount of defense. In the mid game (post muta vZ, post stim + medivac / raven + viking vT) if you're not planning on having a couple with your army then even a single worker is better than nothing. | ||
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Yumey
Sweden5 Posts
Maybe it has something to do with me going 8 hellions as standard, is it a good idea to cut hellions at like 2, use them for scouting and go widowmines? Or is Hellion Banshee a good idea? | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Thanks Pursuit. Is the marine drop at the start mandatory? I feel like the medivac drop here would be super, super obvious since all you've really done is clear the overlords around your base with your first two marines. Or is it the fact that the Zerg is mostly on ling+queen that even if they see the Hellion + Medivac coming they are probably ill prepared for it? I've been opening Viking and clearing overlords but I can certainly see the merit in the drop as well. Also as a question about the build it says to make 8 marines then swap. Wouldn't you make 6 marines (this is when my factory finishes at least) then make the final 2 marines out of the tech rax while the hellions are building as well? | ||
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woopr
United States112 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On March 05 2015 23:48 Tenks wrote: Thanks Pursuit. Is the marine drop at the start mandatory? I feel like the medivac drop here would be super, super obvious since all you've really done is clear the overlords around your base with your first two marines. Or is it the fact that the Zerg is mostly on ling+queen that even if they see the Hellion + Medivac coming they are probably ill prepared for it? I've been opening Viking and clearing overlords but I can certainly see the merit in the drop as well. Also as a question about the build it says to make 8 marines then swap. Wouldn't you make 6 marines (this is when my factory finishes at least) then make the final 2 marines out of the tech rax while the hellions are building as well? Marine drop isn't mandatory at all, although I reccommend at least giving it a try. Basically a 15 gas 2 marine reactor fe or a 12 gas reaper reactor FE opening put you in about the same position (the difference is like slightly earlier CC vs extra SCV, it's really small), so you can do whatever follow up you want, I just use this one because I enjoy multitasking. And yeah, you definitely can build 4 marines out of the reactor then swap, the reason I typically don't is that hellions use up way more minerals than marines (400m / min opposed to 240m / min) so I prefer to get my 3rd CC up a little earlier or sneak in that single widow mine for extra defense. Definitely preference though, use whatever makes sense to you. Everyone has their own unique style. On March 06 2015 03:07 woopr wrote: if you don't want to do a medivac/hellion/marine build then just get 2 marines and get the factory and reactor at the same time (fact slightly earlier) and you can go into any other opening from here it will also help you get your 3rd cc faster if you only get 2 marines Not really, as I explained above hellions cost a lot more minerals than marines, so you'll actually delay the 3rd CC assuming constant hellion production, plus you'll delay the 2nd CC if you get the factory before the reactor (unless you delay both until after the CC, at which point you might as well CC first, better economy for the same result). Delaying the starport is a 'better' way to get faster 3rd CC + upgrades if you don't plan on doing the drop (imo). | ||
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NexT_SC2
United States117 Posts
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On March 06 2015 12:31 NexT_SC2 wrote: Could someone link me to a page/guide about late game tvp micro (handling the death ball) or tell me what I need to do? I have even if not better upgrades and I usually get a fairly decent if not great concave. I have vikings (3 or 4 for 1 colossi right?) although sometimes I'm 2-3 short. The protoss usually pokes me a bit with extended thermal lance, walks into concave and forcefields my army out. I'm not very good at getting pot shots off on colossi with vikings. there are many out there, need to do some search but I remember EJK made a good one. EJK strat and tip thread His vid about enaging the Protoss deathball Ofc if you search in this thread the subject comes back at least once every 5 pages, for it is a great concern for most of us  Good luck! | ||
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Yumey
Sweden5 Posts
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
On March 07 2015 20:16 Yumey wrote: Is it a good idea to go for a blind tank if you go 3cc? No | ||
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t0ssboy
Bulgaria681 Posts
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
Both the question and the answer need to be ellaborated 1 - what means 3 CC? after reaper expand? after CC first? or 3 CC before gaz? and what is the follow up : facto into rax 2 and 3 or facto into banshee? 2 - as for the answer it depends, if you're really cutting corners it can work. Back in the days when Zergs where doing so many roach bane busts Taeja for example would blindly make a tank on some maps. If you're going banshee it can fit in your build very easily. If your going for 2+ more raxes before starport though a tank will delay you a lot and making it blindly is certainly not the best idea. Solution : don't be blind and scout | ||
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