EPTwhen you go 1 rax reaper expo...
1) when do you take your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gases?
2) is going factory/widow mines after that 1 rax better than making an extra rax against anything? what about against oracles?
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 342
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azngamer828
United States137 Posts
when you go 1 rax reaper expo... 1) when do you take your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gases? 2) is going factory/widow mines after that 1 rax better than making an extra rax against anything? what about against oracles? | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
i can't find a single terran which is doing well in that match up at the moment | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On March 03 2015 06:07 Incognoto wrote: is tvp balanced? i can't find a single terran which is doing well in that match up at the moment Totally, entirely, definitely. Take INnoVation (88%), Dream(76%), Cure (73%), Maru (when not against Parting  ) Bbyong (72%), ... well... all the best T are doing good against P lately, are you sure you really looked well?  | ||
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SBGamer
Germany115 Posts
On March 03 2015 06:07 Incognoto wrote: is tvp balanced? i can't find a single terran which is doing well in that match up at the moment It is balanced. Even though I have around 45% (it is getting better and better) I know my problems with the match up and I am fixing it. You just need to know how to use aggression while macro'ing and how to engage fights. I think most terrans are dropping without doing any damage (Damage without losing units is always good, so if you see the army coming to defend, do not think like ''oh, lets snipe this nexus or tech building real fast'', otherwise you are probably going to lose 2 full medevacs for some probes and one tech building --- bad trade --- instead of losing those units, load up and fly away. Unless the army of the toss is very out of position, u shouldnt snipe nexi and tech buildings, go for probes instead.). And of course, not macro'ing while being aggressive does more damage to you than to the opponent, so keep that in mind. Scouting toss cheese or a tech rush can be a pain in the ass sometimes, but it is still scoutable. There is a reason why some guides say do not lose the reaper. Best timing to scout with the reaper is around 6 minutes where you see the tech buildings/gas spending of the toss and you should be able to react properly. Trust me, TvP is not really about having high apm (I have around 90-100 at high diamond, while other terrans have around 160), it is about knowing where to engage, where to be aggressive and how to react to the toss. In general, you can describe TvP with this phrase: ''TvP for the terran is being aggressive, while expanding and building your own powerful army'' I would even say that TvP is even terran favored because of the maps which are drop-friendly | ||
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adwodon
United Kingdom592 Posts
If you put effort into the match up its actually quite straight forward, besides early game 'Protoss Bullshit' there are a small number of distinct things Protoss can actually do and most of the time its just a case of you scouting it and reacting properly and not engaging poorly, I think thats the difficult part for me a lot of the time, you can't just blindly macro up or you end up with too much bio and not enough vikings / ghosts or medivacs when Toss has sat back on 3-4 bases and got a death combo. You do need to be active with army, putting pressure on him but not necessarily engaging and looking for openings, and try not to lose full medivacs to HTs or blink stalkers hah | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On March 03 2015 05:58 azngamer828 wrote: couple questions in TvP, when you go 1 rax reaper expo... 1) when do you take your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gases? 2) is going factory/widow mines after that 1 rax better than making an extra rax against anything? what about against oracles? 1) totally dependent on the build, in a reaper mine drop you can take second extractor after 1st medivac at the same time you build rax 2 and 3, you take gaz 3 shortly after with your EB starting at the same time, and last gaz after 3rd base, at the same time you build rax 4 and 5. ofc if you change the B3 and rax 2,3,4 and 5 order it changes your gazes too... The general rule is to think in "blocks" like 'EB -> gaz' cause you'll need gaz for those upgrades. Just find/copy the best timing with the build you're using. 2) it's a safe build, your 6th marines should come at 5'45 or something like in any reaper into reactor build, and against orcale the mine helps a lot. Saying it's better than anything would be an overstatement though, each build has weakness and strength. Let's just say it's one of the most efficient in the current meta if you can multitask with drops and macro... the builds where you get a second rax before factory for earlier stim work well too, CC first is still strong... It's just the 3 rax style ala Polt that seems not very strong these days because Protoss no longer use heavy gateway units pressure in the early game anymore (it was a build designed to coutner blink all ins) but maybe it's just my personal feeling... | ||
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Gradient
Sweden15 Posts
It seems to be my biggest problem in almost all match-ups but the worst one by far is TvZ. I've been trying a lot of different builds with hellions, fast banshees etc for some aggression but always seems to end up in the same spot. Like I do some damage and sometimes I'm ahead but then I go into passive/macro mode and let the zerg do whatever the hell he want for five minute. It just feels like whatever I go 100 zerglings and 50 banelings wait for me so I'm a bit afraid to go out before I feel that I a big enough army. But at the same time I know that if I just stay home he will make creep all over the place and expand. So what should I do? Like try to drop more? Try to be more active on the map will small forces and not be afraid to go out even if I just have a small army? It feels like I have a hard time finding out where I can put any pressure or do anything viable at all. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On March 03 2015 06:07 Incognoto wrote: is tvp balanced? i can't find a single terran which is doing well in that match up at the moment TvP is balanced, it's just that it can be totally unfair sometimes. | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
On March 03 2015 08:37 ROOTiaguz wrote: TvP is balanced, it's just that it can be totally unfair sometimes. Usually if the game goes longer than 15 mins while the Terran hasn't done significant damage It's so frustrating when Protoss players go fast expand into defensive blink, then take a third and just camp until they have a deathball with colossi and and templars. I only win in TvPs when the Protoss player is a) doing an allin and fails b) is weaker in multitsking and can't split his army into two pieces When I play an equal skilled Protoss, I just lose in the lategame as you need to have insane splitting and focussing skills as a terran. If the Protoss doesn't clump all templars, it is very hard to win. | ||
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azngamer828
United States137 Posts
On March 03 2015 07:03 Gwavajuice wrote: 1) totally dependent on the build, in a reaper mine drop you can take second extractor after 1st medivac at the same time you build rax 2 and 3, you take gaz 3 shortly after with your EB starting at the same time, and last gaz after 3rd base, at the same time you build rax 4 and 5. ofc if you change the B3 and rax 2,3,4 and 5 order it changes your gazes too... The general rule is to think in "blocks" like 'EB -> gaz' cause you'll need gaz for those upgrades. Just find/copy the best timing with the build you're using. 2) it's a safe build, your 6th marines should come at 5'45 or something like in any reaper into reactor build, and against orcale the mine helps a lot. Saying it's better than anything would be an overstatement though, each build has weakness and strength. Let's just say it's one of the most efficient in the current meta if you can multitask with drops and macro... the builds where you get a second rax before factory for earlier stim work well too, CC first is still strong... It's just the 3 rax style ala Polt that seems not very strong these days because Protoss no longer use heavy gateway units pressure in the early game anymore (it was a build designed to coutner blink all ins) but maybe it's just my personal feeling... if i go 1 reaper into reactor build, do i build my nat cc on low ground or high then? | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On March 03 2015 09:15 azngamer828 wrote: if i go 1 reaper into reactor build, do i build my nat cc on low ground or high then? Pretty much always low ground, the only thing scary about building on low-ground is a chrono 10 gate aggression, which you will scout with your 14th SCV, and if so, build a bunker and catch the Zealot moving across map with reaper. | ||
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adwodon
United Kingdom592 Posts
On March 03 2015 07:12 Gradient wrote: Anyone that have any tips for a terran that stay to passive? It seems to be my biggest problem in almost all match-ups but the worst one by far is TvZ. I've been trying a lot of different builds with hellions, fast banshees etc for some aggression but always seems to end up in the same spot. Like I do some damage and sometimes I'm ahead but then I go into passive/macro mode and let the zerg do whatever the hell he want for five minute. It just feels like whatever I go 100 zerglings and 50 banelings wait for me so I'm a bit afraid to go out before I feel that I a big enough army. But at the same time I know that if I just stay home he will make creep all over the place and expand. So what should I do? Like try to drop more? Try to be more active on the map will small forces and not be afraid to go out even if I just have a small army? It feels like I have a hard time finding out where I can put any pressure or do anything viable at all. Assuming you're going for standard 4M, if you have trouble with knowing when its safe to move out just keep your initial 6 hellions alive, don't sack them and be careful. The trick to dealing with ling bling is keeping the creep back, on creep you're just dead, off creep you need to keep stuff split up. You just can't be passive I'm afraid, zerg can do what he wants. You can always pick up if mutas aren't around so move out with your first medivac, your hellions should have a good idea of how many ling bling he has, obviously don't move out if he's going all-in but if he just has a normal amount then push out, your goal isn't to kill him at this point, or even to kill workers necessarily, its to push back creep, so when your marines are at creep, transform to hellbats and push a bit, you may need to pick up but thats fine. If he's just playing safe and not super aggressive just keep rallying to near creep, keep your marines pre-split off creep and push forward with mines and small groups of marines to clear creep, its kind of like a slow mech push but with 4M. He may overwhelm you once or twice but the key is efficiency, you can lose everything and still trade efficiently which matters ONLY if you keep macroing, most of my TvZ might look like I'm losing at first but I'm simply trading with zerg whilst I keep macroing up, eventually, usually when 3/3 hits for me I have a better economy, a tonne of barracks and zerg is so worn down he just can't win. The advantage to this is that if he tries to tech to hive at any point you usually just roll right over them. I'll post some replays when I'm home later if you want but I'm only high plat / low diamond at the moment so I'm sure you can find better examples, but as long as you pre split marines before creep and micro a bit you don't need to be MarineKing to trade efficiently, zergs advantage is creep, deny it and you'll have a much easier time. As a final piece I'd only advise drops if you've got good map presence if mutas are out, otherwise zerg will be flying everywhere denying drops but if you can clear out overlords and constantly threaten zerg at the front then he wont notice those sneaky medivacs coming into the back as often. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On March 03 2015 07:12 Gradient wrote: Anyone that have any tips for a terran that stay to passive? It seems to be my biggest problem in almost all match-ups but the worst one by far is TvZ. I've been trying a lot of different builds with hellions, fast banshees etc for some aggression but always seems to end up in the same spot. Like I do some damage and sometimes I'm ahead but then I go into passive/macro mode and let the zerg do whatever the hell he want for five minute. It just feels like whatever I go 100 zerglings and 50 banelings wait for me so I'm a bit afraid to go out before I feel that I a big enough army. But at the same time I know that if I just stay home he will make creep all over the place and expand. So what should I do? Like try to drop more? Try to be more active on the map will small forces and not be afraid to go out even if I just have a small army? It feels like I have a hard time finding out where I can put any pressure or do anything viable at all. It d help to know your league and have a replay but generally speaking : - going hyper agressive early and passive after is indeed the wrong way (at least if you're playing bio mine). - try to go back to the basics of the match up : 1- reaper + 4-6 hellion : have map presence, kill the early tumors, damage queens, try to figure out what his strat is, don't loose units. 2 - at +1/+1 : start pressuring with mines and bio, clear as much creep as possible, it's the start of the famous "biomine parade push" but you're not supposed to do critical damage yet, unless he took an incredibly greedy 4th. Of course if you can kill his third go for it but never ever sacrifice your army to do so. 3 - at +2/+2 : now your marines are scarry, your 3rd is saturated, zerg has his 4th completed (or he s in troubles) you have 8 rax, 3 facto and a startport at home, your units are constantly pushing towar him, be focus on your splits, it often takes just 1 or 2 good splits to get a huge advatage. Your 4th should be started at this point. 4 - at 3/3 : your bio is unstoppable, you just need to adapt to his comp (thors if mass muta, mass marauders if ultralisk) and have good engagment. you have a huge window there, because zergs can't get 3/3 right after 2/2 mike terrans so you have to use this at your profit. Voila this is the very basic rythm of the match up, as you can see it's kind of an ever growing level of pressure you put on your opponent, basically after 1/1 is done it should constant fight for creep and micro battles until one player looses. Focus on your macro, don't loose time on your upgrades, don't forget your 4th and have fun splitting marines | ||
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Gradient
Sweden15 Posts
On March 03 2015 18:22 adwodon wrote: Assuming you're going for standard 4M, if you have trouble with knowing when its safe to move out just keep your initial 6 hellions alive, don't sack them and be careful. The trick to dealing with ling bling is keeping the creep back, on creep you're just dead, off creep you need to keep stuff split up. You just can't be passive I'm afraid, zerg can do what he wants. You can always pick up if mutas aren't around so move out with your first medivac, your hellions should have a good idea of how many ling bling he has, obviously don't move out if he's going all-in but if he just has a normal amount then push out, your goal isn't to kill him at this point, or even to kill workers necessarily, its to push back creep, so when your marines are at creep, transform to hellbats and push a bit, you may need to pick up but thats fine. If he's just playing safe and not super aggressive just keep rallying to near creep, keep your marines pre-split off creep and push forward with mines and small groups of marines to clear creep, its kind of like a slow mech push but with 4M. He may overwhelm you once or twice but the key is efficiency, you can lose everything and still trade efficiently which matters ONLY if you keep macroing, most of my TvZ might look like I'm losing at first but I'm simply trading with zerg whilst I keep macroing up, eventually, usually when 3/3 hits for me I have a better economy, a tonne of barracks and zerg is so worn down he just can't win. The advantage to this is that if he tries to tech to hive at any point you usually just roll right over them. I'll post some replays when I'm home later if you want but I'm only high plat / low diamond at the moment so I'm sure you can find better examples, but as long as you pre split marines before creep and micro a bit you don't need to be MarineKing to trade efficiently, zergs advantage is creep, deny it and you'll have a much easier time. As a final piece I'd only advise drops if you've got good map presence if mutas are out, otherwise zerg will be flying everywhere denying drops but if you can clear out overlords and constantly threaten zerg at the front then he wont notice those sneaky medivacs coming into the back as often. Thanks for you reply and I think the efficiency is something I have to think and work with. It's not like I don't do good trade sometimes, I think it's more like "oh if I loose these units he will just overwhelm me later". The thought of not having units to take care of muta harass is also always in the back of my head of course. But I guess I just have to try go harder on it and don't be to afraid to lose some units in the process. I'm also high plat so it's always good to hear advice from people around same skill level. On March 03 2015 19:03 Gwavajuice wrote: It d help to know your league and have a replay but generally speaking : - going hyper agressive early and passive after is indeed the wrong way (at least if you're playing bio mine). - try to go back to the basics of the match up : 1- reaper + 4-6 hellion : have map presence, kill the early tumors, damage queens, try to figure out what his strat is, don't loose units. 2 - at +1/+1 : start pressuring with mines and bio, clear as much creep as possible, it's the start of the famous "biomine parade push" but you're not supposed to do critical damage yet, unless he took an incredibly greedy 4th. Of course if you can kill his third go for it but never ever sacrifice your army to do so. 3 - at +2/+2 : now your marines are scarry, your 3rd is saturated, zerg has his 4th completed (or he s in troubles) you have 8 rax, 3 facto and a startport at home, your units are constantly pushing towar him, be focus on your splits, it often takes just 1 or 2 good splits to get a huge advatage. Your 4th should be started at this point. 4 - at 3/3 : your bio is unstoppable, you just need to adapt to his comp (thors if mass muta, mass marauders if ultralisk) and have good engagment. you have a huge window there, because zergs can't get 3/3 right after 2/2 mike terrans so you have to use this at your profit. Voila this is the very basic rythm of the match up, as you can see it's kind of an ever growing level of pressure you put on your opponent, basically after 1/1 is done it should constant fight for creep and micro battles until one player looses. Focus on your macro, don't loose time on your upgrades, don't forget your 4th and have fun splitting marines Don't have any replays to give right now but I'm around high platinum. But a good writeup and gave some good guidlines how to play! But just a small question: At +2/+2 you write that you should have 3 factories, is that normal? I usually just go for two, one for widow mines and one for upgrades/Thors. But then I'm not really sure how many window mines that is good to have, I think that I usually are a bit low on them. | ||
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Barracuda8
Bosnia-Herzegovina27 Posts
On March 03 2015 04:19 Barracuda8 wrote: Hello, It's been a while since i posted here. I've been promoted to plat a few days ago and i'm struggling hard here. Zergs are becoming a problem. I barely win games against them. I usually go mech against Zergs but it seems i can't deal with Swarm hosts, brood lords, corruptors and infestors. Here is a replay http://drop.sc/394459 I tried to take my four bases asap and build starports. However he contained me, i tried to attack, to do runbys with my hellions but i didnt achieve anything. Please i'd appreciate your help. Thanks in advance. Could anyone help me. please? | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
Drop.sc is down, be patient | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
On March 03 2015 06:07 Incognoto wrote: is tvp balanced? i can't find a single terran which is doing well in that match up at the moment Lol. Terrans are destroying Protoss recently...many things have been figured out. Not sure who you are looking at. It is balanced at the highest level of play...at your gold/platinum/diamond level it is definitely still pretty tough on Terran. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On March 04 2015 03:36 Gradient wrote: .... At +2/+2 you write that you should have 3 factories, is that normal? I usually just go for two, one for widow mines and one for upgrades/Thors. But then I'm not really sure how many window mines that is good to have, I think that I usually are a bit low on them. No, not at all, brainfart, I was thinking about how you produce 3 mines at a time, and wrote 3 factos, sorry It's 2 facto with reactor and techlabYou can add a 3rd (witha tech lab) if the zerg goes heavy on mutas though... | ||
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imabigboi
26 Posts
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Wein
Brazil452 Posts
TvZ, no one uses mine anymore? Just M/M and Firebat/Thor? | ||
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