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Hey,
Top gold terran here, nearly hitting the plat mmr. I'm having a lot of trouble in TvT. I have a solid 60% winrate in TvZ and TvP and only 35% in TvT. The problem comes from that I have no particular build order to execute in TvT, I don't really know what I'm doing, I just go marine tank with some widowmines drops but nothing special. I loose due to my macro being crap (It's only crap in TvT, in other match up my macro is fine because I know what I'm doing) and terribad decision making. TvT bores me so much that I started doing cheese only in this MU (while I did bronze -> gold only with 1 rax fe / cc first builds).
My last two TvT :
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mkx2iu (Someone on ladder, he rocked me hard with his bio, then transitionned to BC).
http://www.sendspace.com/file/efijbc (A guy from my team, he is master with protoss and ~platinum level with terran. He crashed at the end but he would have won anyway)
Should I be going mech, bio or marine tank ?
Anyone got some proper builds order with a timing push at approx 10mins?
Despite my macro being terribad, what is wrong in my play?
What are the basics in TvT ? On what do I must rely to win ?
Thanks.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On March 26 2013 05:24 Spore_ wrote:
How good are compositions with ghosts in TvZ ? During mlg some players used them with mixed succes (f.e. Bomber). In pure theory TvZ compostion from twilight of WoL (marine/maruder/medivac/tank) with ghosts, should be provding both strong backbone army (especially with zergs not massing Infestors so often anymore) and mobility like Bio/Widowmine now. Still, players are relying on mines to zone zerg instead of tanks like it once was. Is this a case of gas costs, widowmines being superior to tanks even without vipers around (due to sniping/emping), or just problems with execution ?
I don't think ghosts can be used well enough to warrant them by most people, although GuMiho made them look amazing in his games vs Life (WoL).
I'm pretty sure mines are used in TvZ more than tanks because most Zergs go ling/bling/muta. You will still see tanks being made if the Zerg goes, Roach/Hydra, for example.
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Lategame PvT, I usually get ahead with some aggression but can't deal with the lategame deathball. I thought about just pulling SCVs when it seems like I could win with that, however doing that every time would be running away from my problems.
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On March 26 2013 07:13 wag_ wrote:Hey, Top gold terran here, nearly hitting the plat mmr. I'm having a lot of trouble in TvT. I have a solid 60% winrate in TvZ and TvP and only 35% in TvT. The problem comes from that I have no particular build order to execute in TvT, I don't really know what I'm doing, I just go marine tank with some widowmines drops but nothing special. I loose due to my macro being crap (It's only crap in TvT, in other match up my macro is fine because I know what I'm doing) and terribad decision making. TvT bores me so much that I started doing cheese only in this MU (while I did bronze -> gold only with 1 rax fe / cc first builds). My last two TvT : http://www.sendspace.com/file/mkx2iu (Someone on ladder, he rocked me hard with his bio, then transitionned to BC). http://www.sendspace.com/file/efijbc (A guy from my team, he is master with protoss and ~platinum level with terran. He crashed at the end but he would have won anyway) Should I be going mech, bio or marine tank ? Anyone got some proper builds order with a timing push at approx 10mins? Despite my macro being terribad, what is wrong in my play? What are the basics in TvT ? On what do I must rely to win ? Thanks.
Check out "Flash vs Innovation - Game 2 - Semifinals - MLG Dallas 2013" for a good overall game plan in TvT. They do the exact same build for the first 5 minutes then one player transitions into mech and the other into bio/tank.
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On March 26 2013 14:56 Thrillz wrote:
Lategame PvT, I usually get ahead with some aggression but can't deal with the lategame deathball. I thought about just pulling SCVs when it seems like I could win with that, however doing that every time would be running away from my problems.
Not sure what league you are. Usually it takes winning more than one big fight against toss to seal the deal. I was having issues with the late game deathball, trying to counter every unit he had. Anyway, I learned to improve my lategame battles by blanketing his army with emp. Normally, I thought this was a waste since I usually miss the HT's, but it gives you much more opportunities to win fights consistently. So yeah that would be my advice.
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How should I go about breaking contains in TvT?
I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak.
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On March 26 2013 17:08 boru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 07:13 wag_ wrote:Hey, Top gold terran here, nearly hitting the plat mmr. I'm having a lot of trouble in TvT. I have a solid 60% winrate in TvZ and TvP and only 35% in TvT. The problem comes from that I have no particular build order to execute in TvT, I don't really know what I'm doing, I just go marine tank with some widowmines drops but nothing special. I loose due to my macro being crap (It's only crap in TvT, in other match up my macro is fine because I know what I'm doing) and terribad decision making. TvT bores me so much that I started doing cheese only in this MU (while I did bronze -> gold only with 1 rax fe / cc first builds). My last two TvT : http://www.sendspace.com/file/mkx2iu (Someone on ladder, he rocked me hard with his bio, then transitionned to BC). http://www.sendspace.com/file/efijbc (A guy from my team, he is master with protoss and ~platinum level with terran. He crashed at the end but he would have won anyway) Should I be going mech, bio or marine tank ? Anyone got some proper builds order with a timing push at approx 10mins? Despite my macro being terribad, what is wrong in my play? What are the basics in TvT ? On what do I must rely to win ? Thanks. Check out "Flash vs Innovation - Game 2 - Semifinals - MLG Dallas 2013" for a good overall game plan in TvT. They do the exact same build for the first 5 minutes then one player transitions into mech and the other into bio/tank.
Yep, watched it and tried to reproduce the build on the fly in a ladder match : http://www.sendspace.com/file/a9k94m
Yes, I won, but I feel like I'm missing something, can anyone tell me what ?
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On March 26 2013 18:15 A Wild Sosd wrote:
How should I go about breaking contains in TvT?
I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak.
1) Don't let him do this.
2) Drop him immidiately.
3) Get air superiority and slowly push him back using Banshee/Vikings + your own Tanks.
4) Break his contain, bring SCVs to tank some damage if needed, flank him.
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On March 26 2013 18:15 A Wild Sosd wrote:
How should I go about breaking contains in TvT?
I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak.
It depends at what time in the game this happens. If it happens around 12-15 mins you should follow Everlongs advice but if it happens during the first 7 mins I would just go for some widow mines for defense and go for a fast drop with marine medivac because most of his army will be at the watch tower.
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On March 26 2013 18:15 A Wild Sosd wrote:
How should I go about breaking contains in TvT?
I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak.
If its an early all-in you should be able to break it fairly easily with an scv pull.
If it's after 10-12 minutes your best bet would just be to not let him seige up there. Abuse drops since his army is already out of position to defend, use map vision to flank him before he can seige up. Or use medevacs to drop onto his tanks while flanking with marauders.
If it's late game the key is having air superiority, either push him back with viking/raven/bc/banshee, or kill all his vikings and mass drop onto his tanks. Or mass doom drop and opt for a basetrade.
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On March 26 2013 18:15 A Wild Sosd wrote:
How should I go about breaking contains in TvT?
I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak.
This is a typical "what to do now?" question. A ton out there, like "what do I do when I see 4 cloaked banshees and I don't have lair or evo chambers?!" and so on, with the answer being "probably lose..."
The thing is that if he has got a contain on you, either you have not had enough scouting and/or map presence, or you don't have enough of an army to stop him.
The first step to stop this is to do it preemptively. Scout for siege tank production, have knowledge about what you will have when (in terms of army) and think if you can prevent him from going for that contain. If "yes, if I do X, I can", then try it, and if "no, I cannot stop this in time", then think of other ways before he even pushes out. As I play mech in TvT, I love contains, but there are a ton of things the defending player can counter with.
Here are a few:
1. Stopping it preemptively, by either swapping unit comp, pushing out, being aggressive or doing mini-contains to delay it
2. Medivac drops in bases
3. Banshee/hellion/small troops harassing
4. Flank/Counterattack (depending on map, i.e. Daybreak, where you can go via your 3rd, around him and go for the counter or flank attack, and if he manages to cover that area as well, he will be spread thin, and you can crush him)
5. Break contain with superior unit-composition (banshee/vikings for air dominance, and using siege tanks as you will have more vision than he will. Marauders are great as well)
6. Sneaky mode (widow mines burrowed on his way there, if you know that he will do this, you could get ≈6, plant them all either outside his base,, or at the watch tower, and his entire army will be obliterated in seconds)
Remember, all moves have countermoves, you just have to think about them 
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On March 26 2013 14:56 Thrillz wrote:
Lategame PvT, I usually get ahead with some aggression but can't deal with the lategame deathball. I thought about just pulling SCVs when it seems like I could win with that, however doing that every time would be running away from my problems.
You need the right composition.
If he has a lot of zealot, make mass marines!!! Don't overproduce marauders vs zealot...
You just make marauders if he's using no zealot.
Make good amount of viking to kill all colossus without worrying about stalker. Focus fire with them, shift focus fire in all colossus.
Ghosts emp the whole fuck before fight. EMP and snipe HT's.
Then you just spread the units taking damage, and you might win.
But the secret is the composition... MARINES vs ZEALOT. upgrades 3-3 of course, the right amount of viking, and a lot of ghost.
Sacrifice your SCV"s to have bigger army!! This is a must do!!! You can use mules, and have 150 army pop.
And try to fight on his side of the map, because if you lose, you will have to remake your army asap.
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On March 26 2013 19:40 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 18:15 A Wild Sosd wrote:
How should I go about breaking contains in TvT?
I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak. 1) Don't let him do this. 2) Drop him immidiately. 3) Get air superiority and slowly push him back using Banshee/Vikings + your own Tanks. 4) Break his contain, bring SCVs to tank some damage if needed, flank him.
What also helps, depending on the gametimer, build 2 ghosts and 1 nuke after u get air superiority. Eventually he must unsiege when his scans are all used! Even if he snipes the ghost, it still cost him alot of resources and he is distracted. Also drop 1 expo's at the same time the nuke-command is given. In lowerlevel of play people mostly panic when hearing the NUKE and getting dropped at the same time. When he unsieges just a-move and win that engagement. I believe that ghosts in tvt-lowerlevel against marinetank is a gamechanger. Just dont overbuild ghosts, there purpose is too force an unsiege so u can a-move with your bioforce. It works for me, but allways get airsuperiority in vikingnumbers, thats most important.
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I didn't play beta so a hots tip when dropping, I was wasting my boosters and dropping on the edge of my enemies base, normally lined with turrets. Save the boost for when you're near the base, boost in, and drop where there are no turrets.
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how do you guys feel about siege tanks? They used to be made when the zerg is going for roach attacks, but banshees have proven to hold small attacks. Plus now with mines, its much cheaper to control ground when lings charge in for the surround. Against mass roaches, marauders can do the job just fine.
The only situation I can think of to make siege tanks, is to prepare for an all in attack when the zerg opens roaches for map control. Since tanks are the only unit capable of competing for territory with early roaches. The roach opening would leave a window open for this siege tank all-in attack, but other than that I don't see another reason to make tanks in tvpz
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What would a standard TvT/ TvZ mech basic build order/timings be?
*Edit* nevermind, found the thread!
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In which situations would you go hellbats? I seem to have difficulties finding a place for hellbats in my army in the different matchups.
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Hey guys, a total SC2 newbie here, just curious as to if I have the 'right idea' as far as Terran is concerned before hitting up the ladder/placement matches. I've been practicing macro, and here is my latest practice game (versus AI) for reference
http://drop.sc/313992
I know I need to be smoother about my expansions, and the Engineering Bay goes a while without really doing anything, but I'm slowly getting the hang of things, I think. Any advice would be much appreciated!
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Honestly, I'm so lost in TvT right now. I just seem to lose vs anything, mech, bio or marine/tank. The problem is... I really can't find a safe BO for TvT. Yeah, there's reaper FE but that loses to proxy marauder, since there are a lot of 2 player maps in this map pool. I always seem to get cheesed before I can do anything...
Can anyone really recommend a safe TvT build?
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As long as you are very wary of the proxy marauder build and you scout after gas on 2 player maps, you should notice an empty base after one reaper is complete. Then just build a bunker and marines to defend the rush, but you should pull about 4 scvs to buy time for the bunker, which, once it is up, will hold off the rush. Yes, it is scary as hell, but stay strong with your reaper expand, as those pure marine medivac stim follow ups are still very very powerful.
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EPT
