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On November 19 2013 23:40 t0n!ght wrote:
Gold Terran here with two things I need your help with
1) I'm trying stop using the select all army hotkey. Any tips on how to achieve that? I made the hotkey unavailable but I find myself clicking the icon now instead. I always seem to do it in high pressure situations.
2) How do I scout a 2 base allin in TvP? Sometimes they just walk across the map with 2 colossus and kill me before my viking count is high enough.
Whenever I need help practicing mechanics I practice vs insane AI set to economic. Just focus on control groups. Every so often keep adding all your units to the correct control group. Then send units around the map to sight towers or harass missions and rebind your new control group. If you are constantly adding units to your control group with shift and constantly selecting and moving your army with control groups instead of select all army, it will become habit. They key is binding your units as they rally out so you never have any reason to spam select all. That button can really hurt you if you don't stop using it incorrectly. GL!
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On November 20 2013 00:07 mau5mat wrote:
Has anyone experimented with swapping x2 Factorys to the 2 reactored Barracks roughly when you go up to 7-8 rax on 3 bases (11min?)?
Around this time you will have an armory, and a spare factory that you can add a TL to to research blueflame for x5 hellbat production. I think you could cut vikings a little bit longer (**if no 2 base collo all in is scouted**) if you go hellbat/marauder for the mid game, while trying to get to Ghost/Viking for a late game comp. Hellbats will do a pretty good chunk of damage against the common mass zealot + t3 tech Protoss seems to favour, and vikings will now also benefit from the +1 vehicle weapons, making getting to them a little bit easier gas-wise.
Am I talking sense or is this just nonsense?
I used to do this all the time before the patch. I think it works best if you are powering up, like a quick triple cc build.
I wouldn't recommend it if you are playing constant pressure. If you can reactor out HB with the first factory after it serves its duty as add-on maker, and then add a factory (or two if your feeling crazy) and get blue flame it should work better. I Sometimes even go one ebay for +1 attack only then as its half way done, get armory and second ebay so your HB are quicker but your bio armor ups are slower.
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So there's just about no way to play bio in tvt now or?
Could do with some solid bio builds.
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On November 20 2013 09:07 Rambolav wrote:
So there's just about no way to play bio in tvt now or?
Could do with some solid bio builds.
I am working on a reaper expand into 3 rax with fast stim (to deal with banshee tank all-ins) and then 3d CC follow up with medivacs and upgrades. Looks pretty solid so far!
The build is 12 rax 12 gas, 1 reaper, then reactor, then take 2 guys out of gas. Get CC, 2 more raxes and then 1 tech lab to research stim.
Make sure to scout with the reaper tho :D
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TheDwf wrote:
Against 2 Gateways in my base, I use 11/11 and I build my Barracks between my CC and geysers; against a single Gateway, 12/14 should be enough. Regardless of your building layout you will have to micro anyway, so pull back SCVs after they take 2 hits and remember that a Marine cannot take any hit from a Zealot if you move it manually with caution.
Proxies outside your base are simply thwarted by a wall.
You have to decide whether to make a wall by your first depot, and if you do, you will automatically lose that depot for free to a stalker/MSC poke. So I should just accept that fact or be scouting on 10 supply?
What am I missing here, because this seems seriously broken http://drop.sc/365558
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I can no longer win vsZ if I go 4M >< or at least i think i can't been an off night but beat 2 Z's going a poorly optimized marine tank, does anyone know if Taeja or anyone recently has gone marine tank vs Z. If so could you please link it to me thanks.
Also is this ladder bug thing still going on for anyone? I have decreased in progress in terms of laddering since last season ~_~ so... Is that just me sucking recently, is this how it always is at the start of a new season? or?
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On November 20 2013 10:12 Fhiz wrote:
I can no longer win vsZ if I go 4M >< or at least i think i can't been an off night but beat 2 Z's going a poorly optimized marine tank, does anyone know if Taeja or anyone recently has gone marine tank vs Z. If so could you please link it to me thanks.
Also is this ladder bug thing still going on for anyone? I have decreased in progress in terms of laddering since last season ~_~ so... Is that just me sucking recently, is this how it always is at the start of a new season? or?
Depending on how you're playing or why you're losing, you might wanna think about adding a second factory for double reactor, 1 tech lab. Ever since I've heard about the patch and how it might go through, been experimenting with it and felt like it worked pretty well.
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Canada8159 Posts
On November 20 2013 10:05 U_G_L_Y wrote:TheDwf wrote: Against 2 Gateways in my base, I use 11/11 and I build my Barracks between my CC and geysers; against a single Gateway, 12/14 should be enough. Regardless of your building layout you will have to micro anyway, so pull back SCVs after they take 2 hits and remember that a Marine cannot take any hit from a Zealot if you move it manually with caution. Proxies outside your base are simply thwarted by a wall. You have to decide whether to make a wall by your first depot, and if you do, you will automatically lose that depot for free to a stalker/MSC poke. So I should just accept that fact or be scouting on 10 supply? What am I missing here, because this seems seriously broken http://drop.sc/365558
You were supply blocked for so long; as soon as you saw him attacking that supply depot you should have dropped 2 more ASAP. And you let so many of your SCVs die for free, you should just run them away instead of trying to do fancy hold position micro. as soon as the bunker goes up you should be ok, just make sure you don't get supply blocked for that long and you don't lose an insane amount of SCVs.
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100% serious. So DK plays random right? I'd love to see how he plays tvp? Like openers, transitions and reactions.
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Playing random and then spawning terran against protoss is completely different from starting the game as terran against protoss. This is true for any matchup, actually.
But protoss have so many different openings against terran they can utilize, playing against random forces protoss to go into the most basic / standard. Most of the time what our ladder protoss heroes want to do is open up 2 gas super early against terran and then do whatever they want from there. Against random they can't do that.
As a side note, the pros that David Kim keeps referencing as consulting is mainly ToD who is notorious for whining about his race which dates back to his War3 days - while Sky and then Infi were winning every as human Tod kept complaining about how bad human were .
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So I have a question about splitting bio on the fly..
Is it better to grab all the bio and move them far back followed by grabbing small groups and stopping them along the way, or is the opposite better, i.e. to move all the bio back a short ways and then to move progressively smaller groups farther back?
I hope it made sense what I was trying to ask lol
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Depends what you are up against.
Against collosi, move all your bio back as far away from the collosi lasers as possible while your vikings attack it.
Against banelings and templars, grab small packs and split from the very beginning.
Against tanks, spread and kite forward.
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My question was meant to ask more about mechanically which way is the best to split the units so that they end up end up on small packs, not so much about overall army control.
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Canada8159 Posts
Normally you will see pros pull their entire army pack then split small packs off.
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On November 19 2013 23:40 t0n!ght wrote:
Gold Terran here with two things I need your help with
1) I'm trying stop using the select all army hotkey. Any tips on how to achieve that? I made the hotkey unavailable but I find myself clicking the icon now instead. I always seem to do it in high pressure situations.
2) How do I scout a 2 base allin in TvP? Sometimes they just walk across the map with 2 colossus and kill me before my viking count is high enough.
1) Bind your rally's to a camera hotkey, and use these to pick up units. Remember to set it every time. The select army hotkey can be used to select control groups and bind seperate parts of your army to a different hokey. If you're only using it in situations where you absolutely need everything in your army to A-move to one spot and then transition to your spell casters, this is not the end of the world.
2) Is build dependant. Some will require you keep a reaper alive. Another will tech up fast to medivac and use the drop as a scout. Another will scan the base early, or will scan the army when deciding between 3rd base and increased production (such as another starport, or a ghost academy). Your strategy TvP needs to have this scout built in.
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On November 20 2013 09:07 Rambolav wrote:
So there's just about no way to play bio in tvt now or?
Could do with some solid bio builds.
The normal openings described in original post do just fine transitioning to a pure bio build. You get those 5 raxes & third (or third into 5 raxes depending on build) and mass produce marine/marauder with drops. You're trying to keep your opponent from out-expanding you, dropping everything even remotely weak, and punishing any moveout with heavy damage before he sieges tanks. You're generally ahead on upgrades vs mech, and occasionally over marine/tank. Passivity is generally not the name of the game here.
As discussed in original post, lategame is raven viking battlecruiser. It is not pure bio ... you can kill him or cripple him then kill him midgame with bio.
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I try to CC first or 1 rax FE because I want to learn a macro-oriented build.
Whenever I do this, Zerg either goes for an all-in roach attack or 3 base sling/bane/muta. I can handle the roaches. If I lose, I know I should have had better macro or scouting.
The latter, though, that kills me every time. I think I'm macroing well, until I try to move out and drown in a sea of a-move ling/bane/muta. I don't even mean the "a-move" to be derogatory - they have so much stuff that's all they have to do.
I cannot seem to figure out what I should be doing? Earlier pressure? Last time I suggested that people said no, and that I should stick with my early marine defense and push out at 11 min. This isn't working (for me at least).
More hellbats? More mines? I just don't know... they have so much stuff.
Does any other Terran have this issue? Is the answer just to push sooner, with less stuff?
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On November 20 2013 13:48 KingofGods wrote:
Playing random and then spawning terran against protoss is completely different from starting the game as terran against protoss. This is true for any matchup, actually.
But protoss have so many different openings against terran they can utilize, playing against random forces protoss to go into the most basic / standard. Most of the time what our ladder protoss heroes want to do is open up 2 gas super early against terran and then do whatever they want from there. Against random they can't do that.
As a side note, the pros that David Kim keeps referencing as consulting is mainly ToD who is notorious for whining about his race which dates back to his War3 days - while Sky and then Infi were winning every as human Tod kept complaining about how bad human were .
I can assure you that's bullshit, DK listens to a lot of pros about the game, especially when he's traveled to an event. He just can't accept every point of view since they tend to conflict.
That said I'm really curious how the oracle buff went through. Really strange.
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Canada8159 Posts
It sounds like you just don't have much compared to what other terrans would have. Zerg won't have that many mutas at the 11 minute mark and only a handful of banelings, so make sure you keep the hellions alive and keep trying to deny creep and pick of units here and there.
Instead of using the factory to make additional reactors, you could start making earlier widow mines and that way when you push you'll have a few more mines instead of marines.
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On November 20 2013 15:10 Survivor61316 wrote:
My question was meant to ask more about mechanically which way is the best to split the units so that they end up end up on small packs, not so much about overall army control.
Do a lot of drag selecting, moving each group to a different spot, with each drag select getting a smaller fraction of units then the previous one.
You just need to do it really fast and precise. An entire game can revolve around 2-3 seconds of this so it's important to get it right.
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EPT
