EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 17
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
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Dmn
Norway101 Posts
So I have like 70% win rate in TvZ, 50-55% in TvP, but in TvT I'm at 40% or less :S I prefer playing some form of bio in every matchup, but I just keep losing against mech. How do you deal with any meching terran who turtles on 3 bases (sensor towers, turrets, siege tanks) and then moves out with a pretty much unconfortable army? Is bio simply inferior to mech, am I doing it wrong, or what? Any helpful input would be appreciated. | ||
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sagdashin
Norway45 Posts
- 12 Rax - 15 Gas - Reactor after 2 Marines - CC - Pump Marines out of Rax - Factory - Starport after first Widow Mine - Make ~ 4 Widow Mines with Factory - Gas soon after Medivac starts - Double Rax - E-Bay when Rax start - Double Tech Lab on Factory and Starport - Switch Rax onto Add-Ons - 3rd Gas when Stim starts But it's just not working, and the new P all inns are ridiculous with the oracles. Any good builds i can copy? | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On March 23 2013 06:33 Dmn wrote: Master terran here. So I have like 70% win rate in TvZ, 50-55% in TvP, but in TvT I'm at 40% or less :S I prefer playing some form of bio in every matchup, but I just keep losing against mech. How do you deal with any meching terran who turtles on 3 bases (sensor towers, turrets, siege tanks) and then moves out with a pretty much unconfortable army? Is bio simply inferior to mech, am I doing it wrong, or what? Any helpful input would be appreciated. Be aggressive early game to prevent them from taking a fast 3rd while you take a third yourself and eventually use speed medivacs to punish them for being out of position if he hasn't set up turrets, like in WoL you want to be a base ahead and keep on trading because a bio/bio-tank player will always reproduce faster. There are games where if a mech player stays on 3-base too long, a bio player can straight-up win in an engagement like this Ver game, or you can look up Alive vs MMA Iron Squid 1, match 1. You can also go for a fast air-switch if he's turtling on 3-base, there's times when a guy will go for straight bio, engage a mech player in the middle, and build BCs/vikings as a remax. I think bio -> air is a pretty solid transition, Masa vs Strelok is a good example, although not really a "turtling" game. @sagdashin: a lot of pro terrans are still using 1rax gasless FE -> 3rax + bunker like before you know. Or you could use those mines as defense instead of trying to drop if you think he's going to all-in. Demuslim goes for that 4 medivac 2-pronged drop after 1rax FE a lot and it still wins a bunch of games even if his opponent knows its coming. | ||
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SgtJoKeR
Canada37 Posts
On March 23 2013 06:56 Whatson wrote: Be aggressive early game to prevent them from taking a fast 3rd while you take a third yourself and eventually use speed medivacs to punish them for being out of position if he hasn't set up turrets, like in WoL you want to be a base ahead and keep on trading because a bio/bio-tank player will always reproduce faster. There are games where if a mech player stays on 3-base too long, a bio player can straight-up win in an engagement like this Ver game, or you can look up Alive vs MMA Iron Squid 1, match 1. You can also go for a fast air-switch if he's turtling on 3-base, there's times when a guy will go for straight bio, engage a mech player in the middle, and build BCs/vikings as a remax. I think bio -> air is a pretty solid transition, Masa vs Strelok is a good example, although not really a "turtling" game. @sagdashin: a lot of pro terrans are still using 1rax gasless FE -> 3rax + bunker like before you know. Or you could use those mines as defense instead of trying to drop if you think he's going to all-in. Demuslim goes for that 4 medivac 2-pronged drop after 1rax FE a lot and it still wins a bunch of games even if his opponent knows its coming. Hello! Does Demuslim wait for 4 medivac and apply pressure, or does he sit his army in front of the ennemy base until he gets medivac 3 and 4 then drop. What I want to know is : does he just wait for medivac 3-4. | ||
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ghostH27
15 Posts
Recently I have question of looking at minimap timing. Especially I don't know look at minimap timing when in combat. While big combat, I don't need look at minimap? or need look at per 2sec? I watched day9's video that subject"Secret of Hotkey,APM and mouse movement". But I'm not native and I can't understand his talk detail. So I want to know look at minimap timing with sentences. Please advice. I can do this when macro. | ||
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King Fog
Sweden20 Posts
I tend to play TvZ kind of like SK-Terran in BW. Heavy on marines and ravens, and ofc medivacs. Ravens are pretty good at controlling the muta count and dropping a couple of seeker missiles on the banelings can easily take out the majority of them. I don't have the best marine control in the world so only a couple of A-moved banelings can take out pretty much every single marine. And since Z's late game production capabilites is out of this world they can remax in the blink of an eye and be at my base with a fresh batch of 3/3 cracklings. I just don't know what to do when a zerg really abuses mutas and keeps on taking bases and spreading creep. Should I start playing mech? Because I'm not very comfortable with it. Any help is appreciated! | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On March 23 2013 04:52 Smackzilla wrote: In TvP with MMMVG, is it better to lead with vikings or ghosts? Personally, I've always done ghost in the lead. Usually I lead in with the vikings first because the colossi has the highest range in the protoss army and a smart P will have their templar protected behind their army. After the colossi are gone then your can come in closer to the army and get some EMP's off without losing em all to some thermal lance swipes. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On March 23 2013 08:31 King Fog wrote: Hello. I'm having a lot of problems versus Zergs that go mutas. Basically when he goes Mutas I have to be on my toes constantly while he can simply take base after base and control the map freely with creep spreading and ling movement. The mutas will automatically keep me at bay and prevent me from doing anything. I tend to play TvZ kind of like SK-Terran in BW. Heavy on marines and ravens, and ofc medivacs. Ravens are pretty good at controlling the muta count and dropping a couple of seeker missiles on the banelings can easily take out the majority of them. I don't have the best marine control in the world so only a couple of A-moved banelings can take out pretty much every single marine. And since Z's late game production capabilites is out of this world they can remax in the blink of an eye and be at my base with a fresh batch of 3/3 cracklings. I just don't know what to do when a zerg really abuses mutas and keeps on taking bases and spreading creep. Should I start playing mech? Because I'm not very comfortable with it. Any help is appreciated! Ravens aren't an answer to mutalisks in the late game. Widow mines and static defense (turrets) are a better option. Mix in some thors with your composition if the mutalisk pack gets out of control (10~12+ mutas). Leaving a few marines with your turrets in ur main is also a good idea. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On March 23 2013 07:18 SgtJoKeR wrote: Hello! Does Demuslim wait for 4 medivac and apply pressure, or does he sit his army in front of the ennemy base until he gets medivac 3 and 4 then drop. What I want to know is : does he just wait for medivac 3-4. It really depends on what the protoss is doing and I believe what the map is. Since he's pretty aggressive most of the time, he'll poke around with his first 2 medivacs just to make sure the protoss isn't skimping on defense. If he thinks that the protoss has a lot of stuff prepared for him, he'll sit back and take a third while threatening drops to prevent the protoss from also taking a third. If he thinks he can take an engagement, he most of the time splits it 2-2. @King Fog I'm not really sure how you even play SK style vs muta, since that's not a composition I typically go for. If you watch some of the IEM/MLG games, Terrans go for a lot of bio-windowmine or bio-tank-thor stuff, faster to produce and less expensive, and it lets you push out and engage a muta/ling/bling composition (focus fire tanks on banelings, target fire mutas with thors, split, etc.) Leaving turrets in your main + sensor towers is always good, mines in your base are also good. I don't particularly like mech TvZ right now, I think it's kind of weak actually. @TheOgnis do you think the reaper + bunker openings in TvZ are just as good as the 3OC hellion-banshee stuff that was popular in WoL, or is it more hit/miss? And for TvT, are the reactor expand builds (13 or 15 gas like jjakji vs MKP) still safe vs mostly anything? | ||
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King Fog
Sweden20 Posts
On March 23 2013 08:37 ROOTheognis wrote: Ravens aren't an answer to mutalisks in the late game. Widow mines and static defense (turrets) are a better option. Mix in some thors with your composition if the mutalisk pack gets out of control (10~12+ mutas). Leaving a few marines with your turrets in ur main is also a good idea. It's not that the mutas do a lot of damage to my base or my economy, it's more that they prevent me from extending in any kind of way. I find it hard to take bases and I can't move out if he has decent creepspread. Creep shouldn't give vision imho. he doesn't get a big amount of mutas, he just uses them to be a pain in the ass, after that he can roll the banelings and kill everything. God I hate blings. Come late game, he brings in the Brood Lords, and he could very well switch to ultras in any second since he has 3/3 melee by now | ||
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Jay Arell
Norway33 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On March 23 2013 08:58 Jay Arell wrote: Is the 2 rax still viable?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb3lYeYOggI probably even worse than WoL because of the Nexus Cannon... and probably auto dies to sky protoss because you have less marines than a normal gasless 1rax fe (which also doesn't do too well vs sky protoss either). | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On March 19 2013 08:59 Asha` wrote: Bomber (12) rax, (16) cc, 2x rax, (25) gas, rax c-shields -> 7.30 marine push 3rd CC - fact - stim - double ebay -tanks - naked port Does anyone know what series/games he did this build? I've been trying it out but I feel like I'm doing something wrong. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On March 23 2013 08:39 Whatson wrote: It really depends on what the protoss is doing and I believe what the map is. Since he's pretty aggressive most of the time, he'll poke around with his first 2 medivacs just to make sure the protoss isn't skimping on defense. If he thinks that the protoss has a lot of stuff prepared for him, he'll sit back and take a third while threatening drops to prevent the protoss from also taking a third. If he thinks he can take an engagement, he most of the time splits it 2-2. @King Fog I'm not really sure how you even play SK style vs muta, since that's not a composition I typically go for. If you watch some of the IEM/MLG games, Terrans go for a lot of bio-windowmine or bio-tank-thor stuff, faster to produce and less expensive, and it lets you push out and engage a muta/ling/bling composition (focus fire tanks on banelings, target fire mutas with thors, split, etc.) Leaving turrets in your main + sensor towers is always good, mines in your base are also good. I don't particularly like mech TvZ right now, I think it's kind of weak actually. @TheOgnis do you think the reaper + bunker openings in TvZ are just as good as the 3OC hellion-banshee stuff that was popular in WoL, or is it more hit/miss? And for TvT, are the reactor expand builds (13 or 15 gas like jjakji vs MKP) still safe vs mostly anything? I would say the reaper/3OC build is pretty similar in regards to the hellion/banshee because it gives you early map control/harass options early on. If the reaper or mines don't get nerfed it might become a staple. One downside is that some maps are actually bad for reaper (map size/# of places to jump into the main with reaper) whereas there were pretty much no map you couldn't go hellion banshee on. Yeah, for TvT 15 gas is probably the safest build u can do that doesn't sacrifice too much economy early on. On March 23 2013 08:41 King Fog wrote: It's not that the mutas do a lot of damage to my base or my economy, it's more that they prevent me from extending in any kind of way. I find it hard to take bases and I can't move out if he has decent creepspread. Creep shouldn't give vision imho. he doesn't get a big amount of mutas, he just uses them to be a pain in the ass, after that he can roll the banelings and kill everything. God I hate blings. Come late game, he brings in the Brood Lords, and he could very well switch to ultras in any second since he has 3/3 melee by now This is just like how it was in WOL. Nothing too different in gameplay other than you can defend a little better with widow mines. vs 2 hatch muta you just have defend until you get stim and medivacs so you can secure your third safely. Defend, defend, defend until you do you 2/2 timing push before they get hive. vs. a 3rd into muta build you can take your third before the mutas pop and just do a 2/2 timing as well. If they commit really heavily to mutas you can just take a 4th when 2/2 completes and wait until 3/3 since their hive will be super delayed (as well as their 3/3 upgrades). That's the general gameplan. Once you get comfortable with the core of doing this, you can learn when to squeeze in some small pokes/timings to do some creep clearing + drops | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
also what would peoples ideal endgame tvt composition be if you have the money for whatever army you want? | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On March 23 2013 12:24 ThePianoDentist wrote: in lategame tvt skybattles. do people bother using hunter seekers versus opponents vikings anymore? as I find they can just fly their viking towards your army if they react quick enough doing more damage to you....or do you just fire enough that they cant dodge all of them? also what would peoples ideal endgame tvt composition be if you have the money for whatever army you want? Ravens are gooooood. PDD + hunter seekers on clumped vikings always turns the tide of battles. The ideal composition once there's a tank line and everything is stalematey is Raven/Viking/BC with a few Thors for splash damage in the big engagement. | ||
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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
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Cortza
South Africa328 Posts
On March 23 2013 16:29 FireMonkey wrote: as a rule of thumb how many production buildings can terran support per base? kind of how protoss can generally support 4 per base. It's about 3 buildings afaik. But when you get to 4+ bases its better to get more than you need because its so hard to remax. Filter recommends 14 rax on 3 base so you do the math. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On March 23 2013 16:52 Cortza wrote: It's about 3 buildings afaik. But when you get to 4+ bases its better to get more than you need because its so hard to remax. Filter recommends 14 rax on 3 base so you do the math. ??? 14 is kinda ridiculous lol usually in a normal game it's TvP- 8 barracks, 2 starports (if collo obv) TvZ - 7-8 barracks, 2-3 factory, 1 port TvT - 7 barracks, 2 factory, 1 port | ||
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