|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Need advice on helping my terran friend learn sc2
- my first task was to teach him what macro looked like. i gave him a 1 rax expand and explained timings for ENGI bay and upgs little tricks to help him macro well and said "max by 15mins"
- he can do that now
- now i want to teach him race specific macro builds but hes struggling with army control so it was my new idea to suggest 3 all ins that he must learn with the goal to simply be "win the game with micro and army control"
- what are 3 good all ins? i currently have him doing marauder hellion vs z, 1 1 1 x2 racks vs T, 3 rax stim expand as you push vs toss
the toss all in is weak since MSC but gold and silver half the time dont do it and running up ramp solves that. thats the weakest all in i have suggested for him. other all ins i had in mind were medivac battle hellion all ins with rauders mixed in but they hit later.
any suggestions?
|
On August 04 2013 14:29 LiLSighKoh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 09:11 KingofGods wrote:
Is it better to stop scv production until your 3rd is up and running or continue scv production and just transfer the excess scvs over after you land your 3rd?
Of course assuming you have 2 base saturation. If you are contained you might want to stop scv production until you break out of the containement. If you are safe to take a 3rd and your opponent is playing passive then keep making scvs and transfer once your 3rd is landed as there's no readon to stop scv production
I very often see Pros cutting scvs after they are saturated on 2 bases. Not sure, maybe you need to do that to get more production buildings up quicker?
|
On August 04 2013 19:45 Gr33n wrote:
- what are 3 good all ins? i currently have him doing marauder hellion vs z, 1 1 1 x2 racks vs T, 3 rax stim expand as you push vs toss
the toss all in is weak since MSC but gold and silver half the time dont do it and running up ramp solves that. thats the weakest all in i have suggested for him. other all ins i had in mind were medivac battle hellion all ins with rauders mixed in but they hit later.
any suggestions?
I only all-in against P, I'm a high diamond T player.
In TvP, I do 1rax reaper into reactor expand into quick engi bay.
Anyway, I get 3 bases quick, max out at ~14-15mins and pull around 40 SCVs to attack with 2/2 upgrades on my bio. Marine, Marauder, Hellbat, Medivac, SCV all-in. If I see colossi I make vikings, if I scan templar tech I add 3-4 ghosts.
Usually rolls over P's unless their force fields are perfect.
Once you all-in you just focus on the fight and set all your buildings to rally towards their base.
|
What's the standard TvT opener now? I hate going 11 gas banshee, because it just seems like everyone goes cloak banshee as well and you are just killing eachother's scvs.
Is reaper, cc, 3 rax good in the current meta? and then just add turrets?
Cloak banshee comes so fast now, and it seems like if your opponent has good micro not even 3 turrets will stop it from doing damage and throwing you off.
|
On August 05 2013 07:59 Rhaegal wrote:
What's the standard TvT opener now? I hate going 11 gas banshee, because it just seems like everyone goes cloak banshee as well and you are just killing eachother's scvs.
Is reaper, cc, 3 rax good in the current meta? and then just add turrets?
Cloak banshee comes so fast now, and it seems like if your opponent has good micro not even 3 turrets will stop it from doing damage and throwing you off.
I've said this in a post here before, opening up 12 rax 15 gas is totally safe. With my experiences with playing against banshee builds, i can get out two widow mines, a viking and a turret before the banshee comes in. I scan the main around 6 minutes to see what's going on. Look up the forgg build, and it's pretty much that.
And i wouldn't feel comfortable doing reaper, cc , 3 rax, A 1-1-1 all in can kill that.
|
On August 05 2013 07:59 Rhaegal wrote:
What's the standard TvT opener now? I hate going 11 gas banshee, because it just seems like everyone goes cloak banshee as well and you are just killing eachother's scvs.
Is reaper, cc, 3 rax good in the current meta? and then just add turrets?
Cloak banshee comes so fast now, and it seems like if your opponent has good micro not even 3 turrets will stop it from doing damage and throwing you off.
Try and catch ForGG streaming if you can, he does what is (in my opinion) the most standard and safe TvT build in the current meta:
12 rax, 15 gas, 16 depot
2x marines, then reactor
Command center in main (unless you know 100% no reapers)
@100 gas: factory
4x marines from rax, then swap w/ fact
24 depot
After swap, make hellions & 2nd gas
@100% factory: starport
Lab on rax, swap w/ port when done
Viking first, then raven
If you scout that your opponent is going late (or no) banshees, you can make a medivac before the viking, and drop your marines in his main while attacking the front with 6+ hellions.
ForGG follows up with two or more additional factories, going mass blue-flame hellion into mech. However, you could just as easily transition into marine-tank if it suits you - the important part is the opener: marines, then hellions, then viking + raven.
|
What is everyone playing in TvZ atm? I have been playing Innovations reactor hellion triple CC for a while and have been really struggling with it, but it seems like an easier build than Flash's reaper/hellion and Polts reaper/hellion/viking.
I think hellion/banshee is making a bit of a comeback but I never used to like that playstyle in WoL as with the aforementiond builds, if they are quite micro intensive early on my macro falls behind a ton!
|
I've had high success rate with my TvZ build
CC first into a 9:30 timing push with 4 rax 1 fact reactored 1 starport into a 3rd then get 2nd eng bay and push ftw! if they take a third its pretty much gg from there
|
On August 06 2013 03:54 Pirfiktshon wrote:
I've had high success rate with my TvZ build
CC first into a 9:30 timing push with 4 rax 1 fact reactored 1 starport into a 3rd then get 2nd eng bay and push ftw! if they take a third its pretty much gg from there
What is your league ? Can you post a replay ? Your build seems interesting, going Innovation 3CC is becoming annoying now that zergs have figured out the build.
|
Hey guys - I've been having some struggles in TvZ. Been doing the following:
CC first into reactor hellions, then I add a third OC. Sometimes I add the third OC before the hellions depending on map and scouting. I try to play 4M but I am having struggles. The games either go:
I walk into him, crush him then a-move for the victory.
Or - I lose everything because I suck with mines, he takes the map and harasses me until I die.
I wonder if there is some special goal I should have in the game - For instance, should I try to secure expands as well as I can and wait for him to engage me, should I be aggressive etc? I'm unsure.
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them.
|
On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I wonder if there is some special goal I should have in the game - For instance, should I try to secure expands as well as I can and wait for him to engage me, should I be aggressive etc? I'm unsure.
You're goal while going 3CC is to put constant pressure by sending constant marine rally, kill his fourth/third while getting your fourth up and you most likely won. You can loose all your marines as long as you saved your medivacs and macroed good, you will already have a good pack of marines and mines ready to attack again. You need to make him spend his ressources on units to defend his expand so he can't switch to Ultralisks asap.
My advice :
When you put down your third and your production starts going on give yourself 3 goals :
- Put constant pressure - make sure he needs to spend ressources on units to defend his expands.
- Get a fourth up as a PF
- Kill his fourth expension
"I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them."
Use them if you hate widow mines, 4M is better but it's down to personnal preference in the end. Watch Dragon on his stream, he played marine/tank TvZ recently and is doing good with it.
|
On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them.
Marine tank works well. Go for it.
|
|
|
On August 06 2013 08:12 AyaaLa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them. Marine tank works well. Go for it.
I don't see why you would go for tanks, other then to be safe from a roach bane all in or some other really aggressive attack, or they are committing heavily to roaches, roach/hydra. Other than that, mines are better in a lot of aspects, which is why you don't see pros going into constant tank production mid-late game TvZ. Even if they commit to a roach baneling heavy Hyun style, or a roach hydra composition and you somehow survive the big 2-2 attack, you'll end up with a better army and composition.
|
Thanks guys! 
On August 06 2013 09:03 LiLSighKoh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 08:12 AyaaLa wrote:On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them. Marine tank works well. Go for it. I don't see why you would go for tanks, other then to be safe from a roach bane all in or some other really aggressive attack, or they are committing heavily to roaches, roach/hydra. Other than that, mines are better in a lot of aspects, which is why you don't see pros going into constant tank production mid-late game TvZ. Even if they commit to a roach baneling heavy Hyun style, or a roach hydra composition and you somehow survive the big 2-2 attack, you'll end up with a better army and composition.
I think we all agree that 4M is the better option. But for me personally I keep losing to bad zerg players because I can't control 4M at all, I don't understand how to use it. It basically feels like I'm playing pure bio vs zerg, but with the twist that sometimes all his(and some of my) units just die all of a sudden. With tank/marine I know what I'm doing, I know how to push and I can targetfire banelings (which feels so much safer). At this point with 4M I just die to everything that is baneling.
|
On August 06 2013 09:16 krooked wrote:Thanks guys! Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 09:03 LiLSighKoh wrote:On August 06 2013 08:12 AyaaLa wrote:On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them. Marine tank works well. Go for it. I don't see why you would go for tanks, other then to be safe from a roach bane all in or some other really aggressive attack, or they are committing heavily to roaches, roach/hydra. Other than that, mines are better in a lot of aspects, which is why you don't see pros going into constant tank production mid-late game TvZ. Even if they commit to a roach baneling heavy Hyun style, or a roach hydra composition and you somehow survive the big 2-2 attack, you'll end up with a better army and composition. I think we all agree that 4M is the better option. But for me personally I keep losing to bad zerg players because I can't control 4M at all, I don't understand how to use it. It basically feels like I'm playing pure bio vs zerg, but with the twist that sometimes all his(and some of my) units just die all of a sudden. With tank/marine I know what I'm doing, I know how to push and I can targetfire banelings (which feels so much safer). At this point with 4M I just die to everything that is baneling.
That's why we practice right? :p
|
On August 06 2013 09:03 LiLSighKoh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 08:12 AyaaLa wrote:On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them. Marine tank works well. Go for it. I don't see why you would go for tanks, other then to be safe from a roach bane all in or some other really aggressive attack, or they are committing heavily to roaches, roach/hydra. Other than that, mines are better in a lot of aspects, which is why you don't see pros going into constant tank production mid-late game TvZ. Even if they commit to a roach baneling heavy Hyun style, or a roach hydra composition and you somehow survive the big 2-2 attack, you'll end up with a better army and composition.
First of all, it is largely map dependent. For example, Fantasy nearly exclusively goes marine tank on newkirk, but often plays bio mine on other maps . also, in an even game marine tank is vastly superior to 4M vs roach hydra. I believe it was Dwf or Ver or somebody highly ranked said that earlier in the thread, and my personal experience confirms it.
|
On August 06 2013 11:13 DBS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 09:03 LiLSighKoh wrote:On August 06 2013 08:12 AyaaLa wrote:On August 06 2013 07:32 krooked wrote:
I also wonder about Siege Tanks. I know that 4M is BETTER, but I am SO bad at playing it, and I feel its just completely shit OR completely OP depending on how the engagements go down. I was way better with tanks, and I wonder if its just stupid to use them, or if the difference isn't so big - i.e tanks are completely fine if I prefer them. Marine tank works well. Go for it. I don't see why you would go for tanks, other then to be safe from a roach bane all in or some other really aggressive attack, or they are committing heavily to roaches, roach/hydra. Other than that, mines are better in a lot of aspects, which is why you don't see pros going into constant tank production mid-late game TvZ. Even if they commit to a roach baneling heavy Hyun style, or a roach hydra composition and you somehow survive the big 2-2 attack, you'll end up with a better army and composition. First of all, it is largely map dependent. For example, Fantasy nearly exclusively goes marine tank on newkirk, but often plays bio mine on other maps . also, in an even game marine tank is vastly superior to 4M vs roach hydra. I believe it was Dwf or Ver or somebody highly ranked said that earlier in the thread, and my personal experience confirms it.
I never said which comp was superior against roach hydra, I was just saying you can end up ahead if you survive that big initial attack from the zerg without losing a ton of stuff. Also read the first sentence i typed, I said "I don't see why you would go for tanks unless they are committing heavily to roaches, roach/hydra. Personally I always die to that big 2-2 attack if i'm going bio/mine, so when i scout that he's gonna commit to that composition, i lift and produce tanks. I agree with what you said though.
|
I build a ton of bunkers and supply depot wall against roach / hydra timing with a couple tanks behind or on the high ground depending on the map.
|
I don't think I've ever lost to roach/hydra ever (mid-masters). Mines are pretty useless in my experience against that composition.. I just go 3M w/ fast upgrades. I defend at base at the 2/2 timing (for the defender's advantage) and double drop them when they move out for it. Take out key structures, move out yourself and attack on a concave while rallying, and it shouldn't be a problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
