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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Hyun vs. Polt in.........IEM Shanghai? By the time the first marine went down the ramp, the hatch was already finished. Hyun vs. Taeja today on Newkirk at Asus RoG. If you see Hyun didn't put his nat hatch up until he had close to 500 resources since he was planning on hatching Taeja's natural, but Taeja was blocking it with scv. Hyun then went on to 3 hatch before pool. Like I said, it really depends on when the zerg puts the hatch up. | ||
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
And in tvz early game, how do you defend different kinds of rush? | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On August 03 2013 05:08 OPDream wrote: So I always have this question. When you in mid and late game ( tvz for example), and have lots of rax. Lets say after a battle and you need to produce mass marine, do you hold the 'a' key or just spamming click 'a'? And in tvz early game, how do you defend different kinds of rush? 1) If Im busy micro-ing I just hold a. 2) Wall your natural with depot + bunker. Scout and if you see something wrong (alot of roaches, early baneling nest, no drones on his natural etc.), you can add bunkers behind your wall (mostly 3, up to 5 - 6 in somes cases, backed-up with scv repairing them). | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On August 03 2013 05:08 OPDream wrote: So I always have this question. When you in mid and late game ( tvz for example), and have lots of rax. Lets say after a battle and you need to produce mass marine, do you hold the 'a' key or just spamming click 'a'? And in tvz early game, how do you defend different kinds of rush? It is ok to hold the "a" key. I think you can find some guides around on holding early rushes. It depends on which kind of opener you are doing and which rushes you are talking about. A replay of any rush that killed you would be helpful. In general you can use a wall to hold rushes, or marines plus scvs to tank a little, or bunkers with scvs to repair. If its a later attack like banelings or speedlings you need to use hellions well. --- What do you guys think about 13/13 reaper in TvP. I think I like it because there is no cut for earlier gas or idle production time on the CC because you get the 16th worker. It does seem slightly less safe as your reaper and your reactor (marines) are delayed. | ||
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
Imo, the reaper expand in tvp relies on reaper's scouting. With 12/12, the reaper get in protoss's base only several seconds before msc or stalker pops out. I am not sure the exact timing of 13/13, but I believe 13/13 limits reaper's usage. | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On August 03 2013 07:36 Carmine wrote: --- What do you guys think about 13/13 reaper in TvP. I think I like it because there is no cut for earlier gas or idle production time on the CC because you get the 16th worker. It does seem slightly less safe as your reaper and your reactor (marines) are delayed. If you don't want to loose an scv, go 12rax 13gas, your reaper will be delayed by a little bit but you don't loose any scv. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On August 03 2013 10:55 wag_ wrote: If you don't want to loose an scv, go 12rax 13gas, your reaper will be delayed by a little bit but you don't loose any scv. I think you actually gain an SCV by doing this, at the expense of a slightly later orbital. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On August 03 2013 04:54 KingofGods wrote: Why does the pool have to go up before the hatch? Hyun vs. Polt in.........IEM Shanghai? By the time the first marine went down the ramp, the hatch was already finished. Hyun vs. Taeja today on Newkirk at Asus RoG. If you see Hyun didn't put his nat hatch up until he had close to 500 resources since he was planning on hatching Taeja's natural, but Taeja was blocking it with scv. Hyun then went on to 3 hatch before pool. Like I said, it really depends on when the zerg puts the hatch up. Hatch, Pool, Hatch is the build. If you go hatch hatch pool it will be no threat at all. Also, hatch finish when marine comes down the ramp =/= hatch finished before barracks finished. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Hyun takes the opponents hatch before his own. Or I should say he tried to but Taeja was planning to CC on the lowground so his scv was already in position to block the hatch going up. I'd have to go back and check but I'm sure Hyun did something similar against Polt and IEM. Here is Polt vs. Hyun IEM. http://www.twitch.tv//esltv_sc2/c/2643214?utm_campaign=archive_embed_click&utm_source=br.intelextrememasters.com At 5:50 you see at Hyun confirmed it was CC first and took Polts natural before his own natural hatch or a spawning pool and the hatch finished when the marine was about 1/2 done. The hatch was actually a little late - Hyun had something like 350 minerals before putting hatch down - so actually the hatch would have finished pretty close to when the barracks finished and you'd have to be super quick to try and lay down a bunker right next to the hatch (the traditional response). | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On August 03 2013 16:56 KingofGods wrote: I must ask that you go and watch Hyun vs. Taeja on Newkirk just yesterday for Asus ROG. Hyun takes the opponents hatch before his own. Or I should say he tried to but Taeja was planning to CC on the lowground so his scv was already in position to block the hatch going up. I'd have to go back and check but I'm sure Hyun did something similar against Polt and IEM. Here is Polt vs. Hyun IEM. http://www.twitch.tv//esltv_sc2/c/2643214?utm_campaign=archive_embed_click&utm_source=br.intelextrememasters.com At 5:50 you see at Hyun confirmed it was CC first and took Polts natural before his own natural hatch or a spawning pool and the hatch finished when the marine was about 1/2 done. The hatch was actually a little late - Hyun had something like 350 minerals before putting hatch down - so actually the hatch would have finished pretty close to when the barracks finished and you'd have to be super quick to try and lay down a bunker right next to the hatch (the traditional response). We can play that against each other and I will win it any day. I met CatZ on ladder and he tried it, he got demolished. As I mentioned, even if you account for the hatch finishing close to the barracks, your pool is not done by then, even worse if you played hatch hatch pool (it will never work out). If you scout it your proper reaction is always don't get the gas or stop mining immediately getting a 2nd barracks and I couldn't think of an easier hold. What the late barracks lacks, the distance to bunkerrush your own natural compared to the zergs is huge, so its basically a double 12 or comparable. | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On August 03 2013 18:22 NarutO wrote: We can play that against each other and I will win it any day. I met CatZ on ladder and he tried it, he got demolished. As I mentioned, even if you account for the hatch finishing close to the barracks, your pool is not done by then, even worse if you played hatch hatch pool (it will never work out). If you scout it your proper reaction is always don't get the gas or stop mining immediately getting a 2nd barracks and I couldn't think of an easier hold. What the late barracks lacks, the distance to bunkerrush your own natural compared to the zergs is huge, so its basically a double 12 or comparable. Sorry if you posted it somewhere already, but: So as a T i have to: 1. Try to get a bunker near the hatch (ideally not providing much surface area) 2. get a 2nd rax 3. wall of the nat i guess What do you do next? get 3rd CC or try to push with marines before speed? | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On August 03 2013 20:32 gingerfluffmuff wrote: 1. Try to get a bunker near the hatch (ideally not providing much surface area) 2. get a 2nd rax 3. wall of the nat i guess What do you do next? get 3rd CC or try to push with marines before speed? It all depends if he chooses to drone up (which he will most likely do) or all-in you. You might want to delay your third cc a little bit while getting some bio to apply pressure/defend the following all-in. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
Looks like a reaper hellion banshee opening. | ||
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Lock0n
United Kingdom184 Posts
Is it worth making hellbats for the scv all in, even though the SCVs will block pathing, and now hellbats are a lot weaker? | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On August 03 2013 18:22 NarutO wrote: We can play that against each other and I will win it any day. I met CatZ on ladder and he tried it, he got demolished. As I mentioned, even if you account for the hatch finishing close to the barracks, your pool is not done by then, even worse if you played hatch hatch pool (it will never work out). If you scout it your proper reaction is always don't get the gas or stop mining immediately getting a 2nd barracks and I couldn't think of an easier hold. What the late barracks lacks, the distance to bunkerrush your own natural compared to the zergs is huge, so its basically a double 12 or comparable. Nice analysis man and thanks for coming on NA to show me the ins and outs of this build. So much better than a replay. :D *Question for any willing*: Is it better to have mines in same control group as marine or on a separate hotkey entirely? If they are on a separate hotkey they tend to clump together, but if they are on same hotkey as marines you need to wait for them to burrow before you start kiting. | ||
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teuthida
United States104 Posts
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cellblock
Sweden206 Posts
high diamond mid master mmr. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Of course assuming you have 2 base saturation. | ||
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LiLSighKoh
United States588 Posts
On August 04 2013 09:11 KingofGods wrote: Is it better to stop scv production until your 3rd is up and running or continue scv production and just transfer the excess scvs over after you land your 3rd? Of course assuming you have 2 base saturation. If you are contained you might want to stop scv production until you break out of the containement. If you are safe to take a 3rd and your opponent is playing passive then keep making scvs and transfer once your 3rd is landed as there's no readon to stop scv production | ||
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