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On July 12 2013 09:13 policymaker wrote:
i want fast CC and banshee build to mech transition ^^
ByunPrime the terranslayer has a banshee/cloack into 3cc's build. Its pretty solid. Check that out, demuslim copied his from this one i believe as byun was 15-0 against demuslim that day
Byun tvt slayer banshee opener
Else try the forgg build but start with the banshee. U will have 8 marines+medivac, hellions and a banshee around 7:30 minutes. It means multiharras potential. If u want cloack, u will have to get 2nd gas when factory is still building, resulting in 2 hellions less +/-. U will have 3 options around 7:30 minutemark : drop, runbuy and banshee that is nice and gives u alot of opportunities to defend and harras at the same time. Also the possibility to mindgame ur opponent is nice. Dont research cloack, just show the banshee!
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On July 12 2013 18:38 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:13 policymaker wrote:
i want fast CC and banshee build to mech transition ^^
ByunPrime the terranslayer has a banshee/cloack into 3cc's build. Its pretty solid. Check that out, demuslim copied his from this one i believe as byun was 15-0 against demuslim that day Byun tvt slayer banshee opener Else try the forgg build but start with the banshee. U will have 8 marines+medivac, hellions and a banshee around 7:30 minutes. It means multiharras potential. If u want cloack, u will have to get 2nd gas when factory is still building, resulting in 2 hellions less +/-. U will have 3 options around 7:30 minutemark : drop, runbuy and banshee that is nice and gives u alot of opportunities to defend and harras at the same time. Also the possibility to mindgame ur opponent is nice. Dont research cloack, just show the banshee!
ty, thats what instantly came to mind, just trying to find something optimised for patch, I think select tried something with 2 workers per gas but lost to double reaper all in
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On July 12 2013 18:55 policymaker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 18:38 govie wrote:On July 12 2013 09:13 policymaker wrote:
i want fast CC and banshee build to mech transition ^^
ByunPrime the terranslayer has a banshee/cloack into 3cc's build. Its pretty solid. Check that out, demuslim copied his from this one i believe as byun was 15-0 against demuslim that day Byun tvt slayer banshee opener Else try the forgg build but start with the banshee. U will have 8 marines+medivac, hellions and a banshee around 7:30 minutes. It means multiharras potential. If u want cloack, u will have to get 2nd gas when factory is still building, resulting in 2 hellions less +/-. U will have 3 options around 7:30 minutemark : drop, runbuy and banshee that is nice and gives u alot of opportunities to defend and harras at the same time. Also the possibility to mindgame ur opponent is nice. Dont research cloack, just show the banshee! ty, thats what instantly came to mind, just trying to find something optimised for patch, I think select tried something with 2 workers per gas but lost to double reaper all in
To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^
U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside
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On July 12 2013 18:55 policymaker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 18:38 govie wrote:On July 12 2013 09:13 policymaker wrote:
i want fast CC and banshee build to mech transition ^^
ByunPrime the terranslayer has a banshee/cloack into 3cc's build. Its pretty solid. Check that out, demuslim copied his from this one i believe as byun was 15-0 against demuslim that day Byun tvt slayer banshee opener Else try the forgg build but start with the banshee. U will have 8 marines+medivac, hellions and a banshee around 7:30 minutes. It means multiharras potential. If u want cloack, u will have to get 2nd gas when factory is still building, resulting in 2 hellions less +/-. U will have 3 options around 7:30 minutemark : drop, runbuy and banshee that is nice and gives u alot of opportunities to defend and harras at the same time. Also the possibility to mindgame ur opponent is nice. Dont research cloack, just show the banshee! ty, thats what instantly came to mind, just trying to find something optimised for patch, I think select tried something with 2 workers per gas but lost to double reaper all in
Use that build but add the gas 2nd gas a little bit later? Maybe like 1 Minute?
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On July 12 2013 19:35 A Wild Sosd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 18:55 policymaker wrote:On July 12 2013 18:38 govie wrote:On July 12 2013 09:13 policymaker wrote:
i want fast CC and banshee build to mech transition ^^
ByunPrime the terranslayer has a banshee/cloack into 3cc's build. Its pretty solid. Check that out, demuslim copied his from this one i believe as byun was 15-0 against demuslim that day Byun tvt slayer banshee opener Else try the forgg build but start with the banshee. U will have 8 marines+medivac, hellions and a banshee around 7:30 minutes. It means multiharras potential. If u want cloack, u will have to get 2nd gas when factory is still building, resulting in 2 hellions less +/-. U will have 3 options around 7:30 minutemark : drop, runbuy and banshee that is nice and gives u alot of opportunities to defend and harras at the same time. Also the possibility to mindgame ur opponent is nice. Dont research cloack, just show the banshee! ty, thats what instantly came to mind, just trying to find something optimised for patch, I think select tried something with 2 workers per gas but lost to double reaper all in Use that build but add the gas 2nd gas a little bit later? Maybe like 1 Minute?
im just guessing here, but select going for 2 workers per gas might be already optimised for super early banshee
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On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside
That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice!
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On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice!
If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets....
1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway)
2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening
3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee.
I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet
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gah, i'm having a real hard time defending zergs who just make like 20 lings just after speed (~6 min in) it's seemingly impossible to scout, and it always kills at least 5 scvs and makes me lift expo. Then on top of that it's hard to scout their followup, as it could be an all in or just them grabbing their third. Any general advice would be much appreciated.
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Always have wall completely done at 6 mins. Send an scv scout at about 16 supply to see how much gas is mined. If more than 100, prepare for an attack / all in. Depending on your opening you should have hellions or a medivac around his base to see if roaches are out. If you see no 3rd base, then it's definitely a very aggressive attack.
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Hi sorry for the re-post but new to TL forums. I posed this question earlier
"Dia terran looking to break into masters
Mostly pit up against low masters and prac against them in 1v1 obs.
However feels like I am just slightly outplayed at every stage and it snowballs to a significant lead at the end of the game. I've asked them for tips after game but most simply respond with "mechanics, just play more".
Sadly I'm going into final year of college so don't have an exuberant amount of time to dedicate into SC so looking to see if anyones got good methods on effective and efficient practice.
I guess I'm just looking for tips on how you guys go about to just shave a couple of seconds off building infrastructure, making sure you bounce back and forth between base and army, develop good mini-map watching habits, getting into better macro cycles, etc.
Helps always appreciated :D"
If anyone can offer some help that would be awesome! Thanks in advance
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On July 13 2013 05:45 TerranosaurusWrecks wrote:
gah, i'm having a real hard time defending zergs who just make like 20 lings just after speed (~6 min in) it's seemingly impossible to scout, and it always kills at least 5 scvs and makes me lift expo. Then on top of that it's hard to scout their followup, as it could be an all in or just them grabbing their third. Any general advice would be much appreciated.
1. Around 6 minutes is speed finishes. Logical time to have the walloff of your expo finished. If not finished ur asking for a runbuy.
2. Build more hellions is a nice approach to more zerglings and to deny creep. If u pressure with it, u will see the units he has produced and u will know early if a roach/bane all in or early roaches or similar is comming. Advantage is that u can build more bunkers etc before roaches arrive. Bigger chance to survive and get ahead.
3. Your first drop could reveal his main and maybe expo. if no drop then u can send 1 reaper in expo+3rd and a scan in main if that reaper dies. But a drop in main/expo (of mines for example because the reactor is allready on the factory and there cheap) is more logical and forces defenses. No need to sacrifice expensive units or mules in this way. Just drop 4 mines, 2 in main and 2 in expos.
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On July 13 2013 02:26 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice! If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets.... 1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway) 2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening 3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee. I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet
To be specific, are we referring to the style of (approximately)
rax
15 gas
reactor
expo
fact
star and swap fact onto reactor
hellions
medivac?
So we'd adjust this by making a tech lab with our star, then banshee, and after our first 4 hellions making 2 mines?
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On July 13 2013 05:45 TerranosaurusWrecks wrote:
gah, i'm having a real hard time defending zergs who just make like 20 lings just after speed (~6 min in) it's seemingly impossible to scout, and it always kills at least 5 scvs and makes me lift expo. Then on top of that it's hard to scout their followup, as it could be an all in or just them grabbing their third. Any general advice would be much appreciated.
Are you walling of your natural completely? I go CC first and wall off with a bunker should be done at ~6 minutes or soon after. And lately I've been going 2x mines outside on natural ramp before hellions for map control, because I've been facing a lot more busts / all-ins and that helps a lot (at top plat level where I'm at anyway). Then, if you fend it off make a spread out minefield outside your natural, should hold them off long enough for you to build up an army.
Edit: as said up thread as well, 2-4 hellions at least on the map scouting is very useful, especially if it lets you see roaches and / or banes coming.
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On July 13 2013 06:08 DaveSprite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 02:26 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice! If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets.... 1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway) 2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening 3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee. I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet To be specific, are we referring to the style of (approximately) rax 15 gas reactor expo fact star and swap fact onto reactor hellions medivac? So we'd adjust this by making a tech lab with our star, then banshee, and after our first 4 hellions making 2 mines?
The techlab u make on the rax before starport+medivac is finished. Then swap rax/starport. This is standard in tvt forgg buildorder. After the 8 marines and the techlab it flies to enemies base for scouting etc. See link below.
Only mild adjustment u should/could make is the armycomposition if u want a banshee. forgg normally starts with medivac for his 8 max marines. and then goes for vikings and a raven. But i dont see a problem with switching armycomposition, as the reactor on factory is allready there and the techlab for starport aswell. So the buildorder does not really change, only the units u would make. Do note the banshee is later seeing 1base banshee play, but its not played as an allin, just as harrasment and forcing him to spend on defense. If u could lure 1 viking or some marines to your rallied mines along the edge of his base then the uncloaked banshee was allready worth it (certainly if u can keep it alive, but thats isnt even needed)
Buildorder+vods here
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On July 13 2013 06:15 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 06:08 DaveSprite wrote:On July 13 2013 02:26 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice! If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets.... 1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway) 2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening 3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee. I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet To be specific, are we referring to the style of (approximately) rax 15 gas reactor expo fact star and swap fact onto reactor hellions medivac? So we'd adjust this by making a tech lab with our star, then banshee, and after our first 4 hellions making 2 mines? The techlab u make on the rax before starport+medivac is finished. Then swap rax/starport. This is standard in tvt forgg buildorder. After the 8 marines and the techlab it flies to enemies base for scouting etc. See link below. Only mild adjustment u should/could make is the armycomposition if u want a banshee. forgg normally starts with medivac for his 8 max marines. and then goes for vikings and a raven. But i dont see a problem with switching armycomposition, as the reactor on factory is allready there and the techlab for starport aswell. So the buildorder does not really change, only the units u would make. Do note the banshee is later seeing 1base banshee play, but its not played as an allin, just as harrasment and forcing him to spend on defense Buildorder+vods here
My biggest struggle with this page (it's the one I've been using to piece together my shoddy forgg opener) is that while it's very good at laying out the entire game plan, I don't actually have a precise build written out. The prime example is that I totally never thought of making the tech lab on the rax. I always just made a reactor on the star because I go bio :O
Definitely food for playing though
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On July 13 2013 06:22 DaveSprite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 06:15 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 06:08 DaveSprite wrote:On July 13 2013 02:26 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice! If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets.... 1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway) 2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening 3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee. I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet To be specific, are we referring to the style of (approximately) rax 15 gas reactor expo fact star and swap fact onto reactor hellions medivac? So we'd adjust this by making a tech lab with our star, then banshee, and after our first 4 hellions making 2 mines? The techlab u make on the rax before starport+medivac is finished. Then swap rax/starport. This is standard in tvt forgg buildorder. After the 8 marines and the techlab it flies to enemies base for scouting etc. See link below. Only mild adjustment u should/could make is the armycomposition if u want a banshee. forgg normally starts with medivac for his 8 max marines. and then goes for vikings and a raven. But i dont see a problem with switching armycomposition, as the reactor on factory is allready there and the techlab for starport aswell. So the buildorder does not really change, only the units u would make. Do note the banshee is later seeing 1base banshee play, but its not played as an allin, just as harrasment and forcing him to spend on defense Buildorder+vods here My biggest struggle with this page (it's the one I've been using to piece together my shoddy forgg opener) is that while it's very good at laying out the entire game plan, I don't actually have a precise build written out. The prime example is that I totally never thought of making the tech lab on the rax. I always just made a reactor on the star because I go bio :O Definitely food for playing though
Well, can be done, transitioning into bio of forgg buildorder, but forgg never did that in tvt last WCS EU and other matches ive seen from him. Else i would have written it down^^
If u go bio of this build, i would think the reactor is more usefull on the rax and not on the factory. But its doable, i guess, but less logical as hellions are expensive (almost double) and that money could go into more rax early giving u more upgrades early and more bio early. (that small adjustment could be beneficial to your overal supply at ten minutes and your desired armycomposition). So, in general it would mean the buildorder stays the same but the addonplacement, the building of the techlab on the factory and the extra 2 rax earlier is the only change
Buildorder will stay the same, its just the addons that change a bit resulting in more rax, bio and upgrades for bio earlier and ofcourse a banshee.
Edit :
after the medivac is qeued up, u will allready have 2 gasses, 1 reactored rax, 1 rax that is building, 1 factory, 1 starport with a techlab and will soon build the 3rd rax. After that take some extra gasses at your expo so u can start stim and combatshields asap. Thats the only timing u have to figure out because going bio means u need them upgrades and they cost more gas then forgg composition. All else is allready done. I say u should play a practisegame and time 3rd and 4th gas descently and your set.
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On July 13 2013 06:28 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 06:22 DaveSprite wrote:On July 13 2013 06:15 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 06:08 DaveSprite wrote:On July 13 2013 02:26 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice! If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets.... 1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway) 2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening 3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee. I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet To be specific, are we referring to the style of (approximately) rax 15 gas reactor expo fact star and swap fact onto reactor hellions medivac? So we'd adjust this by making a tech lab with our star, then banshee, and after our first 4 hellions making 2 mines? The techlab u make on the rax before starport+medivac is finished. Then swap rax/starport. This is standard in tvt forgg buildorder. After the 8 marines and the techlab it flies to enemies base for scouting etc. See link below. Only mild adjustment u should/could make is the armycomposition if u want a banshee. forgg normally starts with medivac for his 8 max marines. and then goes for vikings and a raven. But i dont see a problem with switching armycomposition, as the reactor on factory is allready there and the techlab for starport aswell. So the buildorder does not really change, only the units u would make. Do note the banshee is later seeing 1base banshee play, but its not played as an allin, just as harrasment and forcing him to spend on defense Buildorder+vods here My biggest struggle with this page (it's the one I've been using to piece together my shoddy forgg opener) is that while it's very good at laying out the entire game plan, I don't actually have a precise build written out. The prime example is that I totally never thought of making the tech lab on the rax. I always just made a reactor on the star because I go bio :O Definitely food for playing though Well, can be done, transitioning into bio of forgg buildorder, but forgg never did that in tvt last WCS EU and other matches ive seen from him. Else i would have written it down^^ If u go bio of this build, i would think the reactor is more usefull on the rax and not on the factory. But its doable, i guess, but less logical as hellions are expensive (almost double) and that money could go into more rax early giving u more upgrades early and more bio early. (that small adjustment could be beneficial to your overal supply at ten minutes and your desired armycomposition). So, in general it would mean the buildorder stays the same but the addonplacement, the building of the techlab on the factory and the extra 2 rax earlier is the only change Buildorder will stay the same, its just the addons that change a bit resulting in more rax, bio and upgrades for bio earlier and ofcourse a banshee .
I actually keep getting the hellions for the push because they're a really intelligent way to deal with early marine+tank pushes or marine attacks. I'm just a godawful mech player so I don't try to follow up that way, but I do enjoy the hellions in tvt. I really really enjoy playing with banshees though so I'm more than willing to try to optimize the forgg opener to get some banshees and go mech if need be. Banshees are so fun ♥
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On July 13 2013 06:52 DaveSprite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 06:28 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 06:22 DaveSprite wrote:On July 13 2013 06:15 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 06:08 DaveSprite wrote:On July 13 2013 02:26 govie wrote:On July 13 2013 02:11 teuthida wrote:On July 12 2013 19:02 govie wrote:To be honest, i believe having 3 options and the potential mindgame is better then a pure banshee+3cc opener. its a more versatile and less predictable buildorder. And i like the potential mindgame of showing 1 banshee without cloack to force a reaction just after the patch is out. Walk a mine to the lower edge outside of his base and lure some marines with the uncloaked banshee, etcetcetc so versatile i like it^^ U can even switch it up with a mine/marinedrop first, banshee followup etcetcetc. I like forgg standard 1/1/1 opener, really versatile, but the banshee is late only downside That's a really nice idea, I'll have to try it out (I like the forGG build anyway). And now that cloak is relatively cheap you can always add it later if you need it to take out tanks or do mid game harass. Very nice! If u dont go cloack (i wouldnt), its better i think to go 2xmine+banshee. Maybe its even more effective then cloack because cloack is only effective against vikings and marines until orb has enough energy, but cloack is useless against turrets.... 1. Hits 60 seconds earlier then with cloack (with forgg style anyway) 2. Has less gascost, more eco focussed opening 3. Has the potential to wipe out every marine or that 1 pesky viking without any micro giving u free rain in his base where there are no turrets. Pick off buildingscv's to force an overreaction. U can atleast 1shot marines after the initial 2xwidowmine hits or his 1st viking is gone So, in general, the 2x widowmines mimmick a defensive barrier but cloaked!!1. A nice safe zone for your banshee worth way more then late cloack banshee. I think the synergy between a cloackless banshee and placing widowmines at offensive edges is not enough seen yet To be specific, are we referring to the style of (approximately) rax 15 gas reactor expo fact star and swap fact onto reactor hellions medivac? So we'd adjust this by making a tech lab with our star, then banshee, and after our first 4 hellions making 2 mines? The techlab u make on the rax before starport+medivac is finished. Then swap rax/starport. This is standard in tvt forgg buildorder. After the 8 marines and the techlab it flies to enemies base for scouting etc. See link below. Only mild adjustment u should/could make is the armycomposition if u want a banshee. forgg normally starts with medivac for his 8 max marines. and then goes for vikings and a raven. But i dont see a problem with switching armycomposition, as the reactor on factory is allready there and the techlab for starport aswell. So the buildorder does not really change, only the units u would make. Do note the banshee is later seeing 1base banshee play, but its not played as an allin, just as harrasment and forcing him to spend on defense Buildorder+vods here My biggest struggle with this page (it's the one I've been using to piece together my shoddy forgg opener) is that while it's very good at laying out the entire game plan, I don't actually have a precise build written out. The prime example is that I totally never thought of making the tech lab on the rax. I always just made a reactor on the star because I go bio :O Definitely food for playing though Well, can be done, transitioning into bio of forgg buildorder, but forgg never did that in tvt last WCS EU and other matches ive seen from him. Else i would have written it down^^ If u go bio of this build, i would think the reactor is more usefull on the rax and not on the factory. But its doable, i guess, but less logical as hellions are expensive (almost double) and that money could go into more rax early giving u more upgrades early and more bio early. (that small adjustment could be beneficial to your overal supply at ten minutes and your desired armycomposition). So, in general it would mean the buildorder stays the same but the addonplacement, the building of the techlab on the factory and the extra 2 rax earlier is the only change Buildorder will stay the same, its just the addons that change a bit resulting in more rax, bio and upgrades for bio earlier and ofcourse a banshee . I actually keep getting the hellions for the push because they're a really intelligent way to deal with early marine+tank pushes or marine attacks. I'm just a godawful mech player so I don't try to follow up that way, but I do enjoy the hellions in tvt. I really really enjoy playing with banshees though so I'm more than willing to try to optimize the forgg opener to get some banshees and go mech if need be. Banshees are so fun ♥
If no cloak, dont forget the barrier of 2 widowmines,your offensive safety zone at his edge to keep the banshee alive. I havent tried it myself yet but i believe its potent (maybe more then cloack even because the banshee is somewhat late anyway). Posts results plz
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srsly what is the current TvP meta, i dont get this match-up at all. Everyone I ask whether they are T or P loses all the time, where are the guys with the 95% win rate tvp?
what should i go for?
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Hey guys, I was playing P on ladder KR server (high diamond-low masters level) and came across a Terran opponent. Disregard the openings but his composition, he went into MMM + hellbats, while I opened colo into a 3rd base. He did the sickest think I never thought of, and he had his hellbats in the medivacs the whole time and when we engaged he dropped them on my whole army. As a player who's in between toss and Terran, I don't see how someone can stop it. I want your guys' inputs on that kind of strategy, but it ultimately relies on the toss either having a super bad position, or being caught out in the open. I'll upload reps of him doing it to me and me doing it on toss players myself in a clan war.
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EPT
