EPTCan somebody help with some building timing, etc?
Thanks
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 123
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
Can somebody help with some building timing, etc? Thanks | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
I struggled with this kind of fighting in many engagements in a game recently. Danglars vs Kira (TvP) stretched for an hour. One big engagement I screwed up right clicking, others I just didn't organize my ghosts and vikings in time. I raged at doing decent EMPs and Colo engagments but never a victory. Still enough units left over to stop a second engagements. Did two rage-induced fruitless charges and forgot medivacs ... lost ghosts ... but still felt like future engagements would still not go my way EMPing the archons as well as the HTs. Anyways, that game I managed to out-scrap him in the end but it was shoddy play. Ideas on working more ghosts in lategame low-eco (2mining to 2mining) when he has matched upgrades and I don't have enough economy to get both the high ghost count recommended and enough bio to destroy the chagelots? Kiting over widow mines with scanned obs any lategame substitute for archon draining? | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On July 14 2013 13:19 noSec wrote: Hey folks... Well, as i don't like banshee openings i am doing the oooooooooold 1 rax FE but i'm not feeling safe against reactored reaper openings.... Is it possible to go 1 Rax, Gas (when?) and then finally expand? I feel like i need the 2 hellions to stay fine agains them... Can somebody help with some building timing, etc? Thanks 15 Gas build | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1071 Posts
On July 13 2013 17:46 KawaiiRice wrote: help me i cant beat protoss msc expo is literally the stupidest thing to ever be conceived 12/14 raxx man. you can have 2 bunkers up in time if toss goes nexus after msc. from there I expand and x2 gas at home --> factory tech & engi bay to hold any follow-up all-in/warp-prism shenanigans. If toss is one basing, I keep my marines at home and go x2 gas before expand (see Gumiho vs Terminator, game 1. OSL S1 2013, code A, round 1, match 1). | ||
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NotTrulyEvil
22 Posts
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
Well, the question is: How does my army should look in late game? I play MMM into MMM+Ghosts to snipe or Viking then Ghosts against colossi... And here goes the CORE of my question. If the Protoss chose Hight Templar over Colossi should i be making marines and marauders at the same rate i was in mid game or should i go to Marauder, ghost ( lots ) and medivac ? This question may sound retarded but, does Ghosts (after EMPeing or/and Sniping) have the dmg and dps to substitute marines in battle? And it is possible to win with a lot of cloaked ghosts + vikings in late game? Thank you guys i really needed to post cause TvP is the only matchup that makes my keyboard and mouse sweat and i almost always lose... | ||
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teuthida
United States104 Posts
1. I've noticed a lot more toss at my level going HTs / archons first instead of colossus. What is the best way to deal with this (usually I spot it with my 2 medivac poke cause my reaper gets shut down before I see any of that tech)? It is too early to get ghosts up very efficiently and I feel like there is no way I can engage that composition on two bases (if it try to just hang back and micro they roll into my base with archons, storm and tons of zealots). 2. Please advise how I could have played this blink stalker all-in better: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3693667/replay Blink stalker is the hardest all-in for me to hold, I even saw it coming here and tried to be super defensive but I never felt like I had quite enough to chase him away and take my expo, he had a pylon at my third, so I ended up getting starved out. | ||
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DaveSprite
United States79 Posts
When is a lair considered 'early'? As in, what times would I see lair and think "Oh shit an all in/timing is coming." I just got out of a game where I scanned at 7 min saw a building Bling nest and Lair, decided to make 2 more bunkers, and after denying 2 overlord scouts I scan his third to see it finishing and drones being transferred. I ultimately won the game but was my initial reaction incorrect? | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On July 15 2013 10:40 noSec wrote: I'm a mid-high platinum player and i was always since from day 1 of SC2 lost in TvP... Well, the question is: How does my army should look in late game? I play MMM into MMM+Ghosts to snipe or Viking then Ghosts against colossi... And here goes the CORE of my question. If the Protoss chose Hight Templar over Colossi should i be making marines and marauders at the same rate i was in mid game or should i go to Marauder, ghost ( lots ) and medivac ? This question may sound retarded but, does Ghosts (after EMPeing or/and Sniping) have the dmg and dps to substitute marines in battle? And it is possible to win with a lot of cloaked ghosts + vikings in late game? Thank you guys i really needed to post cause TvP is the only matchup that makes my keyboard and mouse sweat and i almost always lose... Master Terran here The ideal army comp against protoss is: 2 Marines for every Zealot 1 Marauder for every Stalker 3 Vikings for every Colossus 1 Ghost for every High templar 2 Ghosts for every Archon Since you are Terran you don't need that many workers because you have mules and macro OCs so the rest of the supply should be in medivacs. To your questoin if it's possible to win with cloaded ghosts + vikings. I would say yes, as long as you kill all the observers with scans and vikings and stay out of storms you will win. However, I would not trust this strat because in the late game P will most likely have cannons here and there. | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On July 15 2013 14:18 teuthida wrote: High plat here, gonna add two more to the TvP pile: 1. I've noticed a lot more toss at my level going HTs / archons first instead of colossus. What is the best way to deal with this (usually I spot it with my 2 medivac poke cause my reaper gets shut down before I see any of that tech)? It is too early to get ghosts up very efficiently and I feel like there is no way I can engage that composition on two bases (if it try to just hang back and micro they roll into my base with archons, storm and tons of zealots). 2. Please advise how I could have played this blink stalker all-in better: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3693667/replay Blink stalker is the hardest all-in for me to hold, I even saw it coming here and tried to be super defensive but I never felt like I had quite enough to chase him away and take my expo, he had a pylon at my third, so I ended up getting starved out. 1: You react the same way you would if you see P go for colussus, get the right army comp. I recently wrote the ideal army comp in a post before. The most important thing though is to not engage until you have the right composition. If you spot that he has archons with your 2 medivac poke don't engage. You have map control at this point so leave a marine at his 3rd and below his ramp and fill 1 medivac and put it in some dead air space beside his main. When you see that he moves out, do a counter drop to buy time while you are getting your 3rd and the right army comp up. 2: Im at work now but will look at the replay when I get home. | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On July 15 2013 14:39 DaveSprite wrote: TvZ question here When is a lair considered 'early'? As in, what times would I see lair and think "Oh shit an all in/timing is coming." I just got out of a game where I scanned at 7 min saw a building Bling nest and Lair, decided to make 2 more bunkers, and after denying 2 overlord scouts I scan his third to see it finishing and drones being transferred. I ultimately won the game but was my initial reaction incorrect? I would say that those bunkers were unnecessary. Your hellions should spot for his third. If you see no third being built at 7:00, then you can scan his main and see what he is doing and react accordingly. Basically the only lair all in you have to worry about at 7:30 ish is super fast mutas or some random nydus all in. Ling, bling, roach hits later on unless he's doing it without bling speed which makes it easier to hold so you should be fine with some extra bunkers. Easy read: No 3rd being built at 7:00 = start getting worried. | ||
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TheBaLinOne
Germany16 Posts
Any ideas how to counter it? Would be awesome  | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On July 15 2013 18:05 TheBaLinOne wrote: hey guys, i recently played a match against a really , really strange Zerg build, but it seems kinda impossible to hold for me atm. He opens with 4-6 Queens and can defend my hellions really easily and then he can spread creep like a madman and finally pushes with mass roaches to victory. I asked him how to counter this build, and he said that he has no idea. He said its a Dimaga build and he defeated many high gm´s with this strange build. I got a replay here: http://drop.sc/348977 Any ideas how to counter it? Would be awesome Ive had a similar problem with mass roach of 3hatch, with some infestors, hydra or ling mixed in. After analysis, I believe against mass roach comp, a 2nd factory for more tanks could be best counter. It should mean delaying bio upgrades a bit for more tanks. If 2 factories are constantly pumpin tanks, ur expo and 3rd are sure to be safe against any massroach army. Anything else and roaches seem too beefy and u will probably loose. Maybe not to the initial push but sure to the follow up push. Because he will rally lings+other stuff to your ruined bases without any solid defenses. To badly tho, i havent had the chance to test it | ||
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MTAC
103 Posts
If you add tanks, I heavily prefer tank + mines instead of pure tank. Or he rushes for the tanks and take the mines blows, or he kill the mines first and the tanks can shot more often. If you face roach builds really often. You can go CC First, Rax, 2 gas with 2 SCV on each one. The moment your factory is finished you can put your 3rd CC and a second factory to pump tanks. You just can't wall in at 6 minutes unless your 3rd CC is part of the wall. The extra gas allow you to have your e-bays nearly at the same time than standard 1 gas 3 CC. | ||
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Persh
Estonia108 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Answer] + Ver wrote: Can't really put it in words...it really has a lot to do with feel and knowing the practical range of your ghosts/placement in the army/timing. Basically snipe has longer range but feedback is instant cast, so if they both walk in range then try to kill, templar wins, but if Terran scans ahead and does it from range, he wins. Alternatively, you can lead with emp and use the outer radius of it to hit them, though that isn't as good as it used to be. I haven't ever been good with ghosts, but I went through unit tester and noticed that if protoss is on top of his micro, then he can still feedback 1-2 of your ghosts when you scan ahead and snipe. Am I doing something wrong? If so, can anyone explain it in more detail?  | ||
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teuthida
United States104 Posts
On July 15 2013 16:53 Kvassten wrote: 1: You react the same way you would if you see P go for colussus, get the right army comp. I recently wrote the ideal army comp in a post before. The most important thing though is to not engage until you have the right composition. If you spot that he has archons with your 2 medivac poke don't engage. You have map control at this point so leave a marine at his 3rd and below his ramp and fill 1 medivac and put it in some dead air space beside his main. When you see that he moves out, do a counter drop to buy time while you are getting your 3rd and the right army comp up. 2: Im at work now but will look at the replay when I get home. Thanks! That is a good idea with the scouting marines and the waiting drop. I will give that a try. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On July 15 2013 17:02 Kvassten wrote: I would say that those bunkers were unnecessary. Your hellions should spot for his third. If you see no third being built at 7:00, then you can scan his main and see what he is doing and react accordingly. Basically the only lair all in you have to worry about at 7:30 ish is super fast mutas or some random nydus all in. Ling, bling, roach hits later on unless he's doing it without bling speed which makes it easier to hold so you should be fine with some extra bunkers. Easy read: No 3rd being built at 7:00 = start getting worried. Why on earth would you mass super fast muta in TvZ? This is a serious question, not being sarcastic or anything.. but getting out a few mines mean that the muta simply can't be used aggressively against Terran, no? | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On July 15 2013 23:55 Incognoto wrote: Why on earth would you mass super fast muta in TvZ? This is a serious question, not being sarcastic or anything.. but getting out a few mines mean that the muta simply can't be used aggressively against Terran, no? I said that the only lair tech all in one should be afraid of at around 7:30 is some kind of super fast muta or a nydus which is basically nothing. The only lair tech all in you should be afraid of is the ling, bling, roach or roach, hydra +2/+2 but those hits way later than 7:30. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On July 15 2013 23:55 Incognoto wrote: Why on earth would you mass super fast muta in TvZ? This is a serious question, not being sarcastic or anything.. but getting out a few mines mean that the muta simply can't be used aggressively against Terran, no? Fast muta builds are kinda popular at the moment. They counter mech (unless early thors), mass helions, banshees, fast drops, sometimes rauder/helion/ etc. And if the terran went bio, you can just harass a bit and transition. Question: How to stop a non stop roaches vs cc first? The zerg scouts my cc first, puts down a roach warren reactively and only makes roaches without making drones at his natural. His first batch is 7-8, followed by more. I only had 2 helions and 1 bunker with 2 marines and 1 rauder. :\ | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On July 15 2013 14:18 teuthida wrote: High plat here, gonna add two more to the TvP pile: 1. I've noticed a lot more toss at my level going HTs / archons first instead of colossus. What is the best way to deal with this (usually I spot it with my 2 medivac poke cause my reaper gets shut down before I see any of that tech)? It is too early to get ghosts up very efficiently and I feel like there is no way I can engage that composition on two bases (if it try to just hang back and micro they roll into my base with archons, storm and tons of zealots). 2. Please advise how I could have played this blink stalker all-in better: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3693667/replay Blink stalker is the hardest all-in for me to hold, I even saw it coming here and tried to be super defensive but I never felt like I had quite enough to chase him away and take my expo, he had a pylon at my third, so I ended up getting starved out. Okay so that Blink stalker all in was scouted by you at 6:35. Your reaction here should be to throw down a factory asap and start building siege tanks. Build bunkers at those locations you did and pull some SCVs to defend and wait for your tanks to come out. When you have 2-3 tanks you can fly your expansion to your natura. When you get 2 medivacs out and your marines and marauders have combat shield and stim you can push for the win with your MMM + Tanks. You can hold it without tanks too but you made some huge mistakes. Your rax with a TL should be building marauders instead of marines. At 9:00 you try to attack him instead of waiting for your medivacs. You made the same mistake again at 11:00 when you tried to kill his stalkers with just marines, you MUST have medivacs before engaging blink stalkers. After the engagement at 11:00 you basically can't win anymore :/ When you know that there is gonna be a blink stalker all in: Get 2-3 siege tanks. Focus on getting marauders rather than marines. Don't engage blink stalkers without medivacs. | ||
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