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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
A-moving, even spread like you are, is kind of a bad idea. You'll lost a lot. So unless this is an already won game, i wouldn't do it.
But doing some runbys/drops on the edges (4th/5th locations), where he haven't a lots of tanks/marines, to kill a little. Or even sieging one or two tanks on this place, will force him to send some units to deal with it, or spread his own lines for defense. For that, he will leave another position unprotected. You retreat your aggressive tanks and advance where he is weak. Then siege the place.
Attacking an already sieged position (like 5 tanks and 30/40 marines) would be suicide. So to make the contain work: you have to make him spread his lines, by spreading yours a litlle, the goal here is to have each tanks covering another one, and your marines spread. Then scan, If he unsieged all his tanks to answer the threat, stim some marines and kill as many as you can, then retreat them to your lines. etc...
A few units here and there, advancing slowly, by the least protected places is a good way to make it work.
This day9 daily is cool. "Day[9] Daily #394 P1 - Terran Week - Thorzain's TvT!" Even if i don't agree with everything this guy is saying, this one was fantastic
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Has anyone played around with a 1/1/1 banshee opening in tvz yet? I accidentally did it thinking it was a tvt and the zerg just left after I killed his first queen
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TvP question: What to do as a follow up to a DT drop?
I've been playing quite a few protoss players that dt drop now off 2 bases, I just don't know what to do after the dt drop. I read the OP and it said to be aggressive and not turtle and sited some WoL vods/replays but I haven't really had that much success with being aggressive with the MSC even against greedy play.
I understand that if I lose too much to the dts that it doesn't matter but just assume that I take minimal-no damage for this. I really do not know what to do.
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Honest TvP is just a joke. SC2 is not fun anymore.
User was warned for this post
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Are there any popular bio-mech TvT builds that aren't more than a few months old? I've been playing with mech around 70% for all matchups but have gotten the itch for good ol' marine-tank again. Timing also couldn't be any better with the hellbat nerf. Preferably something macro-oriented, but not required.
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On July 16 2013 03:44 pali_ wrote:
Hi, Mid/High Diamond (Master last season .. since the MMR threshold for Master seemed to be lower that season) Terran here, with some TvZ struggles.
Lately, I have started playing the Reaper-Expand into 3 CC build where I build 2 Reapers and 6 Hellions with the goal to contain the Zerg, slow down Creep spread and prevent the Zerg from building his third. While doing this, I get double ups, build my infrastructure and prepare for a strong 2-2 midgame push. So far the theory ... I think that sums up how the build is supposed to be played? Please feel free to add anything / comment on this.
Now, 80% of the games turn out like this: Zerg gets only 100 gas, gets early speed (I scout that, hence I know the timing when speed hits). Zerg then gets a bunch of speedlings (20-30) and tries to catch me off-guard and surround my hellion/reaper force. Now, in some cases, this happens, in most cases, I manage to fend of the lings but am forced to pull back my hellion / reaper to my base. In either case, the zerg regains map control and is free to do whatever he so desires until my mid-game push is ready. Now, I know that the zerg has invested a lot of larvae into those lings, but I think this is totally worth it since he then can drone up like crazy for a considerable amount of time.
I try to push with a MMMM force (with the first 2 medivacs). Now, the addition of the 3rd CC, the double upgrades, the 6 hellions (tons of minerals) delay my additional barracks so much that this push is quite late. So, the Zerg has tons of time to do whatever he likes, expand, drone up like crazy, get a macro hatch and is then usually able to crush my push and afterwards pressure my third. I will gladly provide replays once I get home from work.
Now, does anyone have any advice / comments for this ^^ / this build in general? Or would you guys suggest playing a different build entirely?
I was playing CC first before but most Zerg drone scout nowadays, see that early and then just all-in you which sadly, in most cases, used to work out for them.
So, I never hellbat-dropped by the way, should I starting doing that NOW that the hellbat has been nerfed? :S As I said, any advice / comment on the above is highly appreciated. Please add your league information with your post. Thanks!!!
/EDIT: example
he makes a ton of lings, controls the map, I cant secure my third, he then drones like crazy, my push is too late. any comments appreciated!! 
srsly, lately, I am a Zerg's bitch. it's starting to piss me off and I don't really get it. I mean, OK, in this game, I lose 2-3 hellions, but the Zerg is pressuring me constantly. I really feel like we have switched roles. I feel like me as a T should pressure him constantly while he is trying to play greedy. But this game is exactly the other way round. I am trying to play greedy and he is not letting me. Please watch and comment!! )
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On July 16 2013 10:53 -JoKeR- wrote:
TvP question: What to do as a follow up to a DT drop?
I've been playing quite a few protoss players that dt drop now off 2 bases, I just don't know what to do after the dt drop. I read the OP and it said to be aggressive and not turtle and sited some WoL vods/replays but I haven't really had that much success with being aggressive with the MSC even against greedy play.
I understand that if I lose too much to the dts that it doesn't matter but just assume that I take minimal-no damage for this. I really do not know what to do.
Best way to go is play it slow and standard. By that I mean do the same thing you'd do if you were playing a normal TvP: move out when you have medivacs, damage if you can (either frontal attacks, drops, or both), and most importantly, keep your opponent contained for as long as possible while you get your third up. Get that ghost academy up quickly and don't go overboard on the aggression; Protoss generally won't be able to hurt you with a sharp timing afterward as long as you scout their army consistently.
Many terrans assume that if they crush a DT timing it's theoretically a quick auto-win for them, so they ramp up aggression too many gears and end up dying from the lack of tech and econ. Just try to contain on two bases while you yourself get more ahead. Of course, if protoss really has nothing to defend with, then by all means go fucking kill them.
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Terrans are just trying to win before collosi + storm lol.
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On July 16 2013 15:48 KingofGods wrote:
Terrans are just trying to win before collosi + storm lol.
Imo if someone is sick of TvP, he should just do the mass scv pull after 4 vikings plus 2 rallied after confirming that there are colossi / storm is not done yet.
Better than leaving the game at the start or stopping to play sc2 all together.
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I actually love TvP. I just hate playing a good 20 min game just to lose in 2 seconds from storm.
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The only reason I like TvP is because the feeling you get when you dodge all his storms and crush his army is the best thing ever.
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On July 16 2013 17:39 A Wild Sosd wrote:
The only reason I like TvP is because the feeling you get when you dodge all his storms and crush his army is the best thing ever.
Its like winning the lottery it happens so rarely ;;
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On July 16 2013 17:43 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 17:39 A Wild Sosd wrote:
The only reason I like TvP is because the feeling you get when you dodge all his storms and crush his army is the best thing ever. Its like winning the lottery it happens so rarely ;;
Lottery is a good way to describe how I feel too, except it's like winning the lottery to guess the correct "all-in" to have an opportunity at trying your luck at the storm dodge/emp.
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On July 16 2013 08:58 MTAC wrote:
A-moving, even spread like you are, is kind of a bad idea. You'll lost a lot. So unless this is an already won game, i wouldn't do it.
But doing some runbys/drops on the edges (4th/5th locations), where he haven't a lots of tanks/marines, to kill a little. Or even sieging one or two tanks on this place, will force him to send some units to deal with it, or spread his own lines for defense. For that, he will leave another position unprotected. You retreat your aggressive tanks and advance where he is weak. Then siege the place.
Attacking an already sieged position (like 5 tanks and 30/40 marines) would be suicide. So to make the contain work: you have to make him spread his lines, by spreading yours a litlle, the goal here is to have each tanks covering another one, and your marines spread. Then scan, If he unsieged all his tanks to answer the threat, stim some marines and kill as many as you can, then retreat them to your lines. etc...
A few units here and there, advancing slowly, by the least protected places is a good way to make it work.
This day9 daily is cool. "Day[9] Daily #394 P1 - Terran Week - Thorzain's TvT!" Even if i don't agree with everything this guy is saying, this one was fantastic
Well all thx for the info and advice. Seems like im stuck with sieging up and contain with turrets and tanks works well too but its boring. Nowadays im glad when they go mech. Means marauders have free rain
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I'm watching WCS KR right now and I just watched supernova do a proxy reaper into proxy widowmine build in TvP.
Anyone have the BO for this? Wasn't paying enough attention to see when he built stuff 
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On July 16 2013 10:53 -JoKeR- wrote:
TvP question: What to do as a follow up to a DT drop?
I've been playing quite a few protoss players that dt drop now off 2 bases, I just don't know what to do after the dt drop. I read the OP and it said to be aggressive and not turtle and sited some WoL vods/replays but I haven't really had that much success with being aggressive with the MSC even against greedy play.
I understand that if I lose too much to the dts that it doesn't matter but just assume that I take minimal-no damage for this. I really do not know what to do.
If I defend it well I just go about business as usual. If, however, he throws more than a few dts at me I just pull 90% of my scvs with my bio and go kill him (save scans)
I also usually put a bunker in my main with 3 marines in it and a turret in my main mineral line pre-emptively.
That being said tvp is by far the most difficult matchup for me and I usually just cheese the protoss when I ladder.
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On July 16 2013 20:37 A Wild Sosd wrote:I'm watching WCS KR right now and I just watched supernova do a proxy reaper into proxy widowmine build in TvP. Anyone have the BO for this? Wasn't paying enough attention to see when he built stuff
gas first proxy rax at 13 I believe then when u have money put up a second rax in your own base, 2 reapers then fly your rax home. build factory when you have the gas (I believe he took his 2nd gas at some point here but not sure when, probably after second rax was started).
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Hey guys, i got a question concerning TvP:
What do you do against 2 Base upgraded Chargelot Archon attacks?
Can I acutally try to defend natural and 3rd or is that bound to fail?
Teching to ghosts so quickly doesn't make much sense in my opinion.
I guess I need a lot of bunkers. I also consider counter dropping with like 2 medivacs to delay him, but that might be difficult cause he can just feedback and warp a lot of units at home.
Any tipps or VoDs about this situation?
Edit:
Note also that I just had 1 reactor and 4 tech labs on my barracks. Might help building 2 reactors I guess?
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On July 16 2013 20:55 Snusmumriken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:53 -JoKeR- wrote:
TvP question: What to do as a follow up to a DT drop?
I've been playing quite a few protoss players that dt drop now off 2 bases, I just don't know what to do after the dt drop. I read the OP and it said to be aggressive and not turtle and sited some WoL vods/replays but I haven't really had that much success with being aggressive with the MSC even against greedy play.
I understand that if I lose too much to the dts that it doesn't matter but just assume that I take minimal-no damage for this. I really do not know what to do.
If I defend it well I just go about business as usual. If, however, he throws more than a few dts at me I just pull 90% of my scvs with my bio and go kill him (save scans) I also usually put a bunker in my main with 3 marines in it and a turret in my main mineral line pre-emptively. That being said tvp is by far the most difficult matchup for me and I usually just cheese the protoss when I ladder.
Got any good cheeses that work out reasonably? I'm low masters.
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On July 16 2013 14:23 pali_ wrote:/EDIT: examplehe makes a ton of lings, controls the map, I cant secure my third, he then drones like crazy, my push is too late. any comments appreciated!! srsly, lately, I am a Zerg's bitch. it's starting to piss me off and I don't really get it. I mean, OK, in this game, I lose 2-3 hellions, but the Zerg is pressuring me constantly. I really feel like we have switched roles. I feel like me as a T should pressure him constantly while he is trying to play greedy. But this game is exactly the other way round. I am trying to play greedy and he is not letting me. Please watch and comment!! )
I don't like the bunker so soon, you don't need it before speed since you have reapers, and it delays your fact and 3th cc. Also your hellions are too late because your reactor is 20 seconds late, which is pretty big.
Your starport is way too soon, when you switch your rax and factory, you should build a tech lab on the rax and search stim. Then normaly you add 2 ebays for quick upgrades, and after that 2 raxes and starport, and 2 raxes more soon after. (If you are afraid of an all in, you can add the 2 raxes before the 2 ebays)
At 7:20, you have 25 scv vs his 25 drones, and your third oc is done while he is just beginning his thid hatch. And you even lost 4 scvs, which would not have happened if your hellions were on time. This is a huge lead!
At 9:45, you float 750 minerals and are still on 1 rax! You really lack production! Note that you are still ahead on worker counts however. Also you have too many scvs at your natural and not enough at your main. Also at this time you should definitively begin to float the cc to the third. (Usually when there is no pressure, I do it sooner, like at 8:30-9:00, that's why it is important to retain your hellions)
You have a lot of idles scvs in your main.
At 12:00 his big attack work so well because you were so late adding production. You are essentially dead after that, I don't know how he managed to stack up 6000 minerals while staying at 130 supply, but you could have come back if you had added enough tech lab raxes in time.
I like to think of TvZ in terms of tempo: know when to pressure, know when to defend. At 8:00 you are really vulnerable because this is when you start adding your production and will soon be taking your third, and they have speed.
You see that pros keep pressuring the zergs, but its because they are playing way more greedily than your opponent. If he produces 20/30 lings, thats 10/15 drones less, if you defend well with your hellions, you already did the damage needed!
So it is perfectly ok to defend during this time! As I note, at 9:45 you have more workers than him, adding the 3 oc and you had a huge eco lead.
There are also other times when you should be in the mindset of defending rather than trying to be agressive (apart from all ins):
- when they stay on 3 bases to do a big muta/ling/bane bust
- when they have their first ultras, where you want them to go against your concave, and start droping/harassing everywhere rather than going for frontal assaults until you have enough marauders.
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EPT
