EPT[G] Late Game PvT - Page 2
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Quochobao
United States350 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
It seems like the HT with your army usually get EMP'd, but the templar you pull from your nearby pylons and bases usually get of storms. Parting likes to flank with his templar. I know when I'm playing PvT, fighting his main army is the last thing I want to do. I'd much rather send zealots to all of his bases and storm T's army as it walks around the map to eventually starve him out. | ||
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CollectiveS
5 Posts
Do you think it's worth having a couple of HT's at all of your bases to guard against drops? Or only the front most ones? also would you ever put your HT's with your army or seperate but near? it's seems far easier to suffer a nasty EMP if the templars are sitting with your ball. | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
(assuming both sides with 3-3 ups and map pretty much split economically) I guess what im asking is how can i force an engagement or win the game when the terran is playing defensive. It seems much easier for them to control space and force engagements when they have cloak, emp and Nuke's to abuse certain positions. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 20 2012 11:17 CollectiveS wrote: A few question from a bad player :p. Do you think it's worth having a couple of HT's at all of your bases to guard against drops? Or only the front most ones? also would you ever put your HT's with your army or seperate but near? it's seems far easier to suffer a nasty EMP if the templars are sitting with your ball. Templar are good anywhere bio might go. Where it's worth the cost to station a templar really depends on the map and the situation. For example, if you have decent map vision on Cloud Kingdom, it's just about impossible for a drop to get into your main. You can't help but spot the drops with your natural and third, so you don't really need a templar there later on. The same thing happens on Entombed Valley. Don't put HTs in your ball of units. Even better, don't make a ball of units. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 20 2012 11:57 AGIANTSMURF wrote: What are the best ways to handle super late game engagements after the terran has sacked half his scv's in favor of orbitals and larger armies. I find attacking into a terran who has a larger supply in army with 10-20 ghost nearly impossible no matter what my composition is and no matter how many gateways i have to flood in reinforcements... (assuming both sides with 3-3 ups and map pretty much split economically) I guess what im asking is how can i force an engagement or win the game when the terran is playing defensive. It seems much easier for them to control space and force engagements when they have cloak, emp and Nuke's to abuse certain positions. I honestly don't know how to deal with the Terran super-army. rsvp wrote up a good discussion on how to control each part of your army to get the most out of it. My advice is to keep trading so that Terran doesn't get a chance to stack 20 ghosts. There should be opportunities to trade when T is on 3 bases, and there will definitely be opportunities when he's on 4 bases. | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On September 20 2012 12:10 kcdc wrote: I honestly don't know how to deal with the Terran super-army. rsvp wrote up a good discussion on how to control each part of your army to get the most out of it. My advice is to keep trading so that Terran doesn't get a chance to stack 20 ghosts. There should be opportunities to trade when T is on 3 bases, and there will definitely be opportunities when he's on 4 bases. ugh, i hate the idea of "Dont let them get there" the best ive been able to do is to assert map dominance once you hit that 3-3 upgrade (assuming you cant kill them) take the center of the map and spread pylons everywhere with cannons and just do your best to deny bases and trade until the terran runs out of money... but when i fail to deny bases i typically lose. also incase anyone is wondering how to stop terran from doing mass ghost harass (nukes going off at your expansions) a really simple and easy way to counter is to leave 1 obs + 1 DT at each base. The DT will be able to 2-shot the ghost and since its cloaked the terran wont be able to kill it without guessing its location before hand. | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
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GleaM
United States207 Posts
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Sakagami
United States56 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 20 2012 12:27 GleaM wrote: Teach me how to 10-10 proxi gate PvP in my base... oh wait that's all you do on ladder. oic. Tee-hee. I also 1-gate FE and 4 gate a lot. Basically, I like builds where I'll either win or lose early so that I don't have to sit in my base building colossi for 20 minutes. | ||
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CaptainHaz
United States240 Posts
On September 20 2012 13:41 kcdc wrote: Tee-hee. I also 1-gate FE and 4 gate a lot. Basically, I like builds where I'll either win or lose early so that I don't have to sit in my base building colossi for 20 minutes. So something/someone/lackthereof pulled you out of retirement eh? | ||
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ishyishy
United States826 Posts
- I've always found high templars to be very difficult to use correctly. They are slow, blink and sentry spells get tangled with templars so you need to put them on different hot keys which makes it more difficult to move your army around. It just isnt very fun to be struggling just moving around, not to mention positioning. - Also, if you arent careful, 1 emp just wins the game for the terran. That said, I do believe that both colossus and templar combined would be the optimal army, as shown by every protoss pro player, but it's just so damn hard to use. - I usually just make 2 robo's for constant colossus production for the late game. In low master league, they arent perfect with army micro or positioning, so it isnt like I need to be perfect either. I just played a game where I balled 8 colossus up with gateway units and just attacked (after 25 minutes of scrappy battles). He had a lot of vikings, but by the time he killed the colossus off, they had done enough damage to sway the battle and eventually allow me to win the game. tldr: for me, templars are too hard to use correctly and make the game less fun because of it, so I just try to mass colossus and win the game  | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On September 20 2012 07:19 kcdc wrote: It really depends on the players and the map. There's so much potential for small skirmishes and multitasking overload that the game can always be decided by out-playing your opponent. But each race does have their advantages. I think Toss is a little more mobile with their warp-in mechanic, but Terran can use medivac mobility pretty damn effectively as well. And while Toss AoE damage is scary, a perfect Terran deathball should beat a perfect Toss deathball if both sides control well and focus 100% on the battle. Vikings+scans to pick off observers, and then running in cloaked ghosts to EMP everything is so strong. Easier said than done. Terran does not have super strong AOE damage. You could argue EMP, but it only damages shields. You can just run away or if you are good you can feedback the ghost whereas storm is easy to use and strong as hell. What can Terran do now? | ||
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Swap
Sweden144 Posts
A few simple things that is so easy to forget. Especially after a loss | ||
Emperor
Norway68 Posts
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pSht
Australia9 Posts
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Gianttt
Netherlands194 Posts
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shammythefox
United Kingdom286 Posts
On September 20 2012 07:22 j.k.l wrote: do people still do that? at least 2-3 extra obs behind that army, you should be able to just a - move with your existing army and crush that kind of comp. I do not believe that a perfect terran army can beat a toss army. The deadliest splash damage combined with instant reinforcements, mothership, and archons, nothing beats that. can you for example give me a perfect terran army and how it should look like? drops in the late game shouldn't be a problem for toss. Hts, and DTS should clean up pretty well. EDIT: btw i play mostly protoss and zerg. The perfect terran army in the early lategame consists of 30-40 scvs, 160-170 army supply, 8-10 medivacs, viking count determined by your opponents collosi count and basically as many ghosts as you can muster + marines/marauders. The protoss army Will consist of 70 probes 10-16 stalkers, some collosi dependandt on your opponents viking count, a bunch of templar, maybe a couple sentries, some archons (only if the ghost count is not too high). In reality there should NOT be a mothership, unless it is being used solely for recall, which is not useful in a deathball engagement. The potency of EMP makes a mothership not worth getting, as it is barely worth its 8 supply count without its spells, let alone the 400/400 it detracts from your gateway reinforce and the substantial tech route it occupies. The goal for the terran is to disarm the templar and the collosus previous to the engagement or during whilst avoiding splash damage. Whilst difficult it is painfully obvious how possible this is and we all know how hard the bio force combined with supply advantage will roll gateway units & reinforcements. I suggest watching some of Byun's heavy ghost TvP lategame, so in that respect yes if both armies are controlled well I think its generally accepted that the terran deathball comes out on top. Drops with 2+ medivacs can really still be a problem in the lategame. Proactivity and being able to feedback before the medivacs unload mitigate a lot of this however that in turn can be countered by using medivacs with lower energy to execute drops. DTs defending drops can be countered by scans which should be ample and with the low numbers of units involved its very easy to mitigate the effectiveness of storms. The real clincher to defending this in the lategame is the 20+ gateway count, this is neccesary as obviously protoss needs a method of defending drops, you can mitigate some damage on the terran side using nice unit control and basically garuntee that you will get some damage, be it in structure, economy or simply killing reinforcement units efficiently but ultimately the drops will be defended, you shouldn't see the runaway drops you do in TvP midgame which can just end games outright but that doesn't make them not worthwhile. Coupled with the fact that lategame economies make dropping in multiple locations much more feasible and using drops to distract and attempt to snipe collosi with vikings means dropping in the lategame is a bit underrated IMO. | ||
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