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1a
Canada36 Posts
EDIT : k nvm it loses to immortal all ins  On September 02 2012 20:10 Sianos wrote: Yep it´s a build you can include in your box series in tournements or aggainst your friends, but i wouldn´t recommned doing it on ladder. So whats a good safe ladder opening build for tvp? | ||
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lazyitachi
1043 Posts
it's similar to how he plays bw. Cutting corner, active army. Very control and awareness reliant. Seems that most of those trying this build do not have the required skill set to pull it off. Flash plays reactively and not just executing a cookie cutter build. Definitely very high level play. Thanks for taking the time to write the guide. | ||
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Messi
United States212 Posts
Very nice guide. | ||
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
The gist of the VOD is that Flash is Flash, pulls out a very ballsy, low-scouting and low defense opener relying on those Marauders with Concussive while putting 3 OCs up and just running San over once his economic edge takes hold. | ||
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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Saiton
Sweden467 Posts
On September 24 2012 10:37 lazyitachi wrote: Seems that most of those trying this build do not have the required skill set to pull it off. Flash plays reactively and not just executing a cookie cutter build. Very true, nobody of us is going to beat San with it  For your average diamond-master bear however, it's great to practice purely macro oriented builds(no focus on drops or cheeky play) consisting of of winning games with just sheer amounts of units+upgrades while keeping a steady base count. In regards to army control, just good spread and being in your opponents face without committing will get you far with this build. Well written guide, thanks OP! <3 | ||
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ChillPhiju
Germany57 Posts
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( bush
321 Posts
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BreakeR.
Austria220 Posts
Sounds really cool, will try it out for sure. | ||
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never_Nal
Costa Rica676 Posts
 , you force protoss to go for a really early robo, or a 6-7 gate timing, and you can just defend it easy since ur stim will be done fast | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
was anybody surprised to see flash invent a build that lets him build 3 CCs as fast as possible? | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On September 29 2012 23:31 ( bush wrote: i dont like dropping 3rd CC when i scout 2 gas. too risky and you will die to almost every allin if u arent as good as Flash. well shit, this changes everything | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On September 29 2012 23:31 ( bush wrote: i dont like dropping 3rd CC when i scout 2 gas. too risky and you will die to almost every allin if u arent as good as Flash. You have to do a real careful count of 2 gas, though. Is it 2 gas with 3 probes each or 2 with 2 each? 2 with 2 each indicates an expand play followed up with light gateway pressure and teching, whereas 2 with 3 is the one that should send you running for defensive structures. Always be counting to make sure, as knowing how many workers are doing what is key to reading your opponent in many matchups. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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boredrex
United States137 Posts
The variant works like this - it follows the same opening until the time comes to get stim. Once you get stim, normally, you would take your 2nd gas. Don't take it yet. Instead, drop another rax when you can, and then another rax (so five rax total.) Don't get the reactors. You might need to cut workers, but if you do you should be okay as long as you only miss a cycle or two. Once you have 100 gas again, you should be close to being able to afford a factory. Once you drop the factory, take your 2nd gas and proceed as normal. For me, this increases the amount of marines on hand during the 6-8 minute mark, which is when many toss all-ins hit. In addition, it lets me get medivacs about 30 seconds faster, which helps a lot. In addition, when you push out, you can just put 4 add-ons on your rax, take your 3rd, and probably add on a few more barracks before your add-ons kick in. The only drawback so far to this variant is that you should have about 3 less workers, but due to the nature of a 3OC, this is barely felt at all. EDIT: Should clarify, my SCV counts are at the 10 minute mark. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On October 01 2012 02:57 Snowbear wrote: Just standard 1gate FE into 6:30 4gate bust would kill this, or put the terran very hard behind. But that's just my opinion. Nice build tough! 4-gates are possible to hold, but difficult; the real kicker is a heavy Immortal bust or Void-ray all-in. Denying the Protoss scout is absolutely key. The best way to do it is to show him the Concussive Shells without showing him the Tech Lab, because it really does look like 2-rax Concussive then. For example, deny the Probe with the early 2nd depot and Marine (shooing him away or killing him before starting the TL), then once the Protoss pokes, try to hit the Stalker and/or Zealot with the Concussive Marauder before they get to your ramp (assuming a very standard Zealot/Stalker map control play - if not, you're fine, because the Protoss doesn't get to scout you without a Stalker until they get Observers, and at that point, it's too late). At that point it is impossible for the Protoss to say for certain that it isn't a 2-rax with Concussive Shells (although he MIGHT try to guess it isn't based on the only 2-3 Marine count at that point). You can fake a slight bit of pressure by just moving out to the watchtower as if you want to push his FE. As someone has already said, the default 2-rax response of "get a bunch of Sentries and Gateway units to defend" pretty much auto-loses because the Protoss doesn't tech, and doesn't get a third base quickly, while you already have 3 bases and by the time the Protoss realizes it isn't 2-rax, you have enough defense and are already teching yourself. Again, this isn't a solid every game ladder build just because certain types of busts and all-ins will wreck it (Immortal bust and Void-ray all-in are the primary threats), but is very good in BofX scenarios because the mind games are elevated to a new level of importance there. Too, this isn't as popular as the more common 3CC builds, which allows it to be a doubly surprising weapon. Another note: if your scouting SCV gets there and does his little dance, finding no expansion by 5:00, it's going to get rough, and you should NOT drop the natural CC yet. Cluster the Marine/Marauder ball at the top of the ramp, and get a couple of Bunkers. Ride out the pressure, and you will be absolutely leagues ahead of the Protoss. | ||
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