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how could i have scouted this 2 ling all-in?
I send my scout SCV over. I thought that I was going to be facing a speedling opener into macro. 4 lings go after it, and i'm like "ok that's standard i think"
At around 6:15 i see 6 lings poke up...I thought I saw 4 in the game. This should'[ve been my tell that he wanted to all in me right? Even if i saw 4 lings, I should anticipate this right? I usually tell myself "6 lings is trouble, 4 might be too" at that point of the game. The thing is i couldn't react in time and wall off. Did i even sort of wall off correctly? What Could i have done here? I was thinking blind walling at the nat ramp,.
Here's my replay:
http://drop.sc/231709
any help and general critique will be greatly appreciated.
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I have trouble with this too  Blind walling at the natural ramp is not a good idea as you won't get it up in time. Its probably better to just hold your main ramp and fortify with bunkers
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I watched up until the ling runby and there were several things you could have done.
1. Your barracks was floating above where it could have landed to finish the walloff.
2. Your bunker could be part of the walloff which would have finished it in time.
3. What i would suggest the most is to start making your first semi wall between your natural CC and the ramp to your main. You wont need as many SDs and you can position your bunker to protect your mineral line as well. It is very effecient and hard to break with just Lings.
From here i would expect the Zerg player to back off if they saw an effecient wall at your main ramp that protects the CC. It would be resonable from there to expect a bane all-in maybe scan to look for gases after a bit. Make more bunkers in spread out positions and macro.
If you hold it off effeciently you WILL be ahead. Take it to the midgame and make a 1/1 timing and probably win.
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ok so i watched the replay, im a gold terran myself.
Basically I used to try and wallin like this aswell, but its really sub optimal, to bling, or sling allins, this is because as in your match, the wallin isnt done in time.
So i spoke to a couple of people higher than myself, and as opposed to trying to wall off the whole ramp, instead you wall okk, the space between your main and your cc at your nat.
by putting down a bunker/supply depot/bunker, in that order, to lower the amount of AOE damage by blings, but also cos when they do get through there is a HUGE concave behind it, where the slings/blings will have to come through a small corridor, and you can be really cost efficient.
I couldn't find a game of it happening to me, but i do have one, of me walling in against a zerg.
http://drop.sc/231715
ALso apologies if the macro is awful, but you get the picture.
edit: lol he said it above. more efficient wall in, between main and nat cc.
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At your level, don't be too concerned with trying to scout everything, because scouting isn't that all effective at lower levels. For example, when your scv got to his natural, there was no queen. Now this would usually indicate he took a super fast 3rd, or he's pumping units, which is why he couldn't yet afford a queen, when in fact, he just forgot it.
Or, if you had clicked on his gas, you would've seen that he had mined more than the 100 gas needed for ling speed. That usually indicates some sort of bling bust or roach push, when actually, his build was just inefficient. What you should try to work on is your mechanics, and your build; and with experience, crisis management will come.
As soon as your factory lands on the reactor, you should start hellion production. When you scout gas on a zerg, and you're going for this kind of build (1 rax FE double gas), it's a good idea to throw down a 2nd bunker so you don't die to this kind of attack.
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TL,DR
*delayed hellions hurt you the most
*Wall off strategy hurt you less, but could have saved you (land or build barracks in front, build a second bunker, or build the first bunker at the front and the supply depots to finish the initial wall off).
*Scouting 2 base all ins is tough, since speedlings give Z map control until you get hellions out so either play more defensively or get the hellions out faster!
Here's the long version
Defending early 2 base timing attacks is difficult, so don't beat up on yourself. I think what he did was very coin flippy. You kinda got unlucky with your scout (last spawn) and it died, also, Antiga's natural may be harder to defend than some others. There are still a number of things that you could have done to win. Here's my constructive criticism:
Faster Hellions
Get the hellions out as soon as possible. You didn't build the hellions right away once you had the reactor but you could have had them by 7:40 with your build, which would have put them behind the wall in at the ramp. I checked a game of mine and I get them just shy of 7 min which means I could have 4 by the time his attack hits. In a hellion FE build versus Z it's vitally important to get the hellions out as quick as possible and go see if he's coming for you. In this case, you would have caught a pack of lings and done some splash to them and then run back to the safety of your bunker while finishing your wall off for a huge lead.
Different Build
I do CC and double gas before 2nd depot which is more economically and tech aggressive than the depot before CC than you did. I'm not sure if this is why my hellions are faster or if you just missed them for a while or your gas timings were inefficient. Here is a link to my build. If you are going to get hellions later, I suggest you get a 2nd bunker closer to the ramp. You were floating 575 minerals and could have easily had another bunker. I like getting the hellions as soon as possible.
http://drop.sc/231760
Considerations for your build
If you are going to get hellions later, getting a 2nd bunker for safety's sake may be a good idea. You were floating 500 mins, so there is little reason not to. A bunker within range of the ramp and within range of the other bunker would have been game changing. Also, if you would have built raxes 2 or 3 at the ramp or landed your already lifted 1st barracks at the ramp he would've have been able to get in. Your 2nd and 3rd rax appeared to delay your hellions and I think you should get them first.
Interpreting what you see
It's tough to interpret things at Gold level, since the opponent may look like they are doing something, but not actually be doing it. You are right that the 6 lings were a sign. Gas and third timings and creep spread are also good indicators of potential 2 base all ins. I also think that a bunch of lings dancing in front of my base is a sign of impending attack.
Zoku addressed bunker placement. I am not sure where I would put the first bunker on Antiga. I would probably place it at the base of the ramp, but it's just something to consider. If the bunker would have been in range of the ramp and the natural CC you'd have been much better off in this case. Even if it's just close to the ramp so that you can evacuate the bunker and shoot at the lings attacking the ramp and then run back to the bunker it helps.
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I think going CC first into a full barracks wall, (which is usually 3 or 4), is a really save play that gives you the opportunity for a marine poke at about 7-8 minutes. its a very versatile build that tranitions well into pretty much everything. you can either take a fast inbase third or go immediately for upgrades/tech.
The downside of the build is that you won't be able to inflict much indirect damage in the beginning of the game, but the "power" of the build makes up for it and its really straightforward. I don't think hellion/banshee builds are good below a certain skillevel , because its just so micro intensive and its hard to defend all-ins with it without superb building placement.
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Definitely build your bunker touching your CC by the main ramp, and optionally build a mini depot wall in front of it. Trying to wall the wide ramp leaves you vulnerable to ling timings.
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It's much better to wall between your expand and your ramp it gives you time to see all the lings in your natural, seeing he didn't have a baneling nest if your wall was back and not at your natural ramp lings couldn't run past your wall. The major benifit of having a bunker by your natural CC is that the bunker protects the CC and the mining scv's. In his attack there was a large portion of time where you couldn't fight and the lings ravenged your natural and ramp. The supply depo bunker wall between your ramp and CC with protect both. He wouldn't of been able to do damage and you would of been ahead.
Side notes when he bling busted your main your second siege tank was stuck in your factory until you lowered your supply depo and it got stuck outside. It was built with pleanty of time before the attack and would of made a large diffence. I didn't know that units could get stuck inside buildings if there is no room for them to exit until i saw this. with that second tank you may of been able to salvage the game, as the zerg was all in and had very little drones or tech.
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It looks to me like had you repaired the reactor and not let it die, you would have held just fine. Just sorround your bunker with your SCVs and watch the lings dance around.
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A Demuslim-style bunker and depot(s) between the ramp and minerals sounds like it would help.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qfzSb.jpg)
He uses this in his 3CC openings. Very small surface area attackable, and SCVs can easily get to repair on the opposite side to lings. Won't cover both ramp and mineral line on all maps though.
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you shouldnt be thinking about what the ling count means. what if he makes 6 lings but only shows you 4?
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He can't make 4 lings and show you 6!
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hahaha oops i mean make 6 lings and show you 4!
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I know...Don't take this as starting an internet argument, but I was thinking about it and while you can't take the absence of lings as strong evidence because, as you said, he can't fake having more lings than he actually does (unless it's zvz and he does some ridiculous changeling thing trick haha), so if you see 6 lings, you know definitively what he has and hasn't done with a portion of his larva.
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I totally agree with you. I guess what I am trying to say is that you can't do the opposite and assume he only has let's say 6 lings just because you see 6 so that even though if you see 6, all you can really infer from that is that he has a smaller drone count for every zergling he has that could potentially lead up to an aggressive attack. I think we have similar or the same point though so no argument needed!
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dont over think it too much. that wall could have absolutely been done in time.
you can finish the wall with the bunker itself. you can drop the rax down in time. you could have built the factory as part of the wall. and you could have even build those 2nd/3rd rax as part of the wall. you can always move them once your safe.
and much like people suggested already theres ways to make a smaller wall from the ramp to your CC at the natural. niether of these things require you to change your build. only building placement.  gluck
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EPT
