EPT[G] short guide on easy wins in PvZ - Page 20
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kronikra
Australia1 Post
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jovikoro
Israel1 Post
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
Ty! | ||
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applepielon
United States78 Posts
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Demicore
France503 Posts
Edit: holy shit I'm lttp | ||
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Quadron
United States6 Posts
Usually, when I move out, the zerg has mass infestor/broodlord. The zergs typically try to counter this by throwing the mass infested terran into the vortex with the archons, but since I still have zlots going into it, the the infested terran AI auto targets the zlots, preventing the archons from taking damage for the initial phase, which allows the archons to deal massive splash with little to no losses. Anyway, I usually lose almost all zlots in the first engagement and I also don't have any more energy for vortex, which is why I usually try to follow this up by adding about 12-15 stalkers with blink to replace zlots to counter any left over broodlords. Here's why in my opinion this is a much more effect than a mass stalker + colls + mothership (usually with a couple archons). 1) This build allows you to get out so many more archons than complementing a colls/stalker ball normally allows (12-15 archons typically at least) And the thing is that when you've got 10+ archons going into a vortex, unless they have mass banelings + mass roaches in the vortex, everything, and I mean, everything is going to die in the first two zaps coming out of the vortex. 2) Archon toilets with only stalkers/colls/couple archons aren't scary for zergs (aside from the fact that they can split the zerg army). Without 6+ archons + zlots to tank going into the toilet, there just isn't as much splash damage coming out and archons die too easily without zlots to tank damage while they deal damage. I theorize that the best zlot/archon/vortex counter would be mass baneling/roach because the banes immediately deal with the zlots, which means that the archons no longer have the zlots to tank for them, which makes you trade roaches for archons, instead of for zlots. And pure roach does okay agaginst pure archon (mediocre trade for both, but since roaches are cheaper...) Any zergs want to test this out? | ||
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applepielon
United States78 Posts
But I would love to see a fast third style. | ||
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DeathToSquid
United States20 Posts
I'll post a game; I'm in diamond so I hope it is helpful for you. The fast 3rd is my favorite part of this build, I think it is very solid and should be taken as long as he is on 3 or more bases. Make sure to deny vision. As I've been moving up the ladder I have been transitioning into doing more warp prism drops. Also, I like attacking at about 150 food (instead of 200), as this is usually before he gets hive tech and there is absolutely nothing your army can't roll over (Some good zergs can manage to nullify my mothership and then use properly positioned broodlord infestor roach armies to kill zlot archon late game. These are usually my only late game losses). Description of the game: Zerg goes 3 base into muta agression; protoss mothership rushes into zealot archon. Mutas are defended, protoss then transitions into warpprism harass with zealots and 2 big pushes at the front (in one of these pushes protoss loses their entire army; but hurts Z so bad that it is not really a problem). After several trades, the zerg is picked apart, loses his bases and his greater spire while it is morphing. Protoss wins. If I (protoss) had been better, I would have taken a 4th (and potentially 5th) and cannons to defend while harassing then added on more gateways and a second forge (or added stargates and gotten carrier upgrades). I have ridiculous amounts of money late game for no real reason, I could have used more production and upgrades. Also, the prism harass could have been mirco'd better and I should have seen (and killed) the bottom base. If zerg had been better he would have kept his mutas alive and harassing for a lot longer, defended the multi pronged attacks more elegantly and put his greater spire somewhere better defended and not so obvious. Also, a neural parasite on the mothership would have really helped him out if he could pull it off, he clearly researched it for this purpose but was never able to use it. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=271610#/replay_overview There are many transitions after you get the 3rd up, this is just one choice. Also, I watched your replay and I have a few simple comments if you are interested: + Show Spoiler + 1) If you move to 3 basing, you need to keep that void ray alive (be much more defensive with it). It can help a lot against early roach pressure. 2) Scout that 3rd by 5:30 or so, if he is 2 base all-in you need to know ASAP. 3) leave a wall off at your natural, just warp in the archons outside your nat (unless he gets mutas). Having that wall helps prevent zergling runbuys later in the game. If he had decided to send in 50 lings at any point after you moved out, your base would have been screwed (or at least all the probes and tech he wanted to pick off) 4) If he is going kinda infestor heavy, leaving a few unmorphed templar can be very useful, just feedback the infestors and then morph. | ||
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Enemony
Canada49 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.4shared.com/photo/aCj-oyzH/easy_win_trollol.html) http://www.4shared.com/photo/aCj-oyzH/easy_win_trollol.html I am in diamond league, and my opponent scouted, and rushed broodlords without infestors. This is the result :D (sorry I couldn't figure out how to put the photo on this post, please check out the link, will not disappoint) | ||
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0-Sony
France1 Post
Can we have some replays of that strategy please? I would like to use it on Europe server. I hope that it will work for me :D Hmm A question please, the compo is mainly of Zealot Archon ? no stalker? Should we add some Void Ray ? What do you do against Fungal? Fungal deny the Spell of Vortex... and what about Mind Control ? When you attack are you 3-0-3 ? | ||
zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
If you don't mind long games as P try this. Definitely takes almost no control, macro, or anything, just patience. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 03 2012 21:30 zatic wrote: I played against this yesterday and I recognized it and thought I was ready. Except the guy NEVER attacked. It's the most frustrating shit ever to have basically the entire map, endless resources, and have this guy crawling over the map with cannons, mothership, templar, archons for 30 minutes. If you don't mind long games as P try this. Definitely takes almost no control, macro, or anything, just patience. (1) Now you know how much it sucks to play against a passive Zerg that makes 70 spines and waits for 3/3/3 and 3/3 air upgrades before a-moving to victory. (2) Next time, just send some corruptor hit squads after the mothership. If you have spines, infestors and endless resources, you can afford to throw away 10 or 20 or 30 corruptors to kill the mothership. It's not cost-efficient, but once the mothership is dead, you have a nice long window where your army is invincible. | ||
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Avicularia
540 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:41 kcdc wrote: (2) Next time, just send some corruptor hit squads after the mothership. If you have spines, infestors and endless resources, you can afford to throw away 10 or 20 or 30 corruptors to kill the mothership. It's not cost-efficient, but once the mothership is dead, you have a nice long window where your army is invincible. This is the thing most people do against this build, and also the thing you should never do. Mothership should be hidden behind mass archons, canons, and if this fails there is still "oh shit" button aka vortex. So no point to waste gass and minerals like that. It's better to make drops or something. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 05 2012 07:27 Avicularia wrote: This is the thing most people do against this build, and also the thing you should never do. Mothership should be hidden behind mass archons, canons, and if this fails there is still "oh shit" button aka vortex. So no point to waste gass and minerals like that. It's better to make drops or something. Do the corruptor snipe before P has mass archons and cannons. | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
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freizya
United States223 Posts
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Avicularia
540 Posts
On November 06 2012 03:41 Wingblade wrote: I do a similar build, but I drop a second star with my fleet beacon, and build about 8-10 voidrays after I start the Mothership. Voidrays are needed IMO if the Zerg spots the third and pumps out a wave of speedlings before the Mothership completes. Plus they do a very good job defending the Mothership from corrupters should an opponent try a Mothership dive. Masters player here btw. But the concept is still something I love. Feels like P needs a metagame transition against Zerg. It takes ages to kill zerlings with voids. Why not zelots if you need them anyway? And roach attacks is what kill this build, not speed lings :p EDIT: UP, you need to watch it in game :p Like other replays. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On November 06 2012 08:36 freizya wrote: how do i watch the replay? when i try opening it on windows media player it says file wont work You can watch replays by putting them in the documents/starcraft2/youraccountname.charactercode/replays/multiplayer folder and opening them inside sc2; click on the camera button to see all the replays you have saved. | ||
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Day9notdead
Russian Federation501 Posts
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Day9notdead
Russian Federation501 Posts
On November 06 2012 10:49 Day9notdead wrote: I see what Finale was thinking "Hyun makes a ton of broodlords so if I just make mass voids I willl win, right? ... right??" right.. | ||
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