EPT[G] Seizing Every Edge: Zerg Economy Management - Page 2
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SangSoul
Thailand3 Posts
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Orek
1665 Posts
After reading this, I wonder how broodwar pros check their worker numbers. When 12 is the maximum number of workers you can select at a time, do they select twice and add or just look at the mineral line? | ||
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quarkral
58 Posts
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monkxly
Canada241 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 13 2012 08:54 quarkral wrote: You lose mining time when transferring drones. There's also the fact that you need drones to build buildings, so you can just pick drones from the base that's the most oversaturated, which prevents lost mining time due to transferring. I don't think you're taking these two factors into consideration in your hunt for "optimality." You're right about losing mining time when you transfer drones, though I do think it's best to transfer drones over 16. I do make a few suggestions about how to maintain optimal saturation when constructing buildings, such as choosing drones from a base that is over-saturated or constructing new drones and rallying. | ||
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Maytsh
Germany2 Posts
On July 13 2012 06:39 Danglars wrote: I don't care if your mining rate with the third drone is 5 minerals per minute less than the first two. It's not 5 minerals less per minute for the new drone, it's 5 minerals per minute for all drones. The statistic is a bit misleading. So taking OP's numbers - if 16 drones mine 670 minerals and 20 drones mine 750, this means that the four last drones only contributed 17 minerals per minute - which means that each of the first 16 drones is almost three times more useful than the 17th one upwards. Or put another way - while the first 16 drones collect back their cost in roughly 70 seconds, the 17th drone upwards takes a whopping 3 minutes to do the same thing. It's a pretty safe bet that you'd have more useful things to invest in if that's your window. I think there's a pretty good reason for calling anything past 16 drones oversaturated. | ||
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quarkral
58 Posts
On July 13 2012 08:57 TangSC wrote: You're right about losing mining time when you transfer drones, though I do think it's best to transfer drones over 16. I do make a few suggestions about how to maintain optimal saturation when constructing buildings, such as choosing drones from a base that is over-saturated or constructing new drones and rallying. My point is that deliberately oversaturating certain bases (in most cases, your main) preemptively in preparation for constructing buildings there may be better. The suggestions you gave only apply afterwards. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 13 2012 09:23 quarkral wrote: My point is that deliberately oversaturating certain bases (in most cases, your main) preemptively in preparation for constructing buildings there may be better. The suggestions you gave only apply afterwards. If you know you're going to build 2 structures in the main early on, I suppose you could oversaturate the base by 2 drones so that you don't have to transfer from natural. It would depend how long they're triple mining in the main for. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
I can't see managing the finer points of economy being any practical use of APM for anyone below high masters. Am I wrong in this? THAT SAID I'm glad you bother to make such guides, man! Very well laid out and informative, and no-one can be hurt by accurate information! :D | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 13 2012 09:30 Staboteur wrote: I can't see managing the finer points of economy being any practical use of APM for anyone below high masters. Am I wrong in this? If you mean in the mid-late game, then you're right - of course a bronze/silver level player should be focusing on their macro/engagements 100%. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't practice refinement in the early stages! It's also something I think Platinum/Diamond players can keep an eye on in the midgame if their macro is in check and they feel comfortable doing so. | ||
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Hanako
United Kingdom57 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 13 2012 09:36 Hanako wrote: Would've been great to demonstrate the 4-base max-out thing with the use of camera hotkeys, especially in a tutorial focusing on improving your mechanics combining the training of economy management in addition to efficient movements around the map would've been ebtter I think. I actually don't use camera hotkeys very much, I understand their appeal but tried them and didn't like it. I do hotkey my queens to 5-9, so I can go to each hatchery quickly. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 13 2012 06:33 BoggieMan wrote: the title is kinda missleading since alot of this can be used by all races, great advice for the players that don't know all this already. I may actually do Terran/Protoss versions sometime down the road. | ||
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Scurvy
United States117 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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gilligan156
United States60 Posts
Someone recently showed me your "the big bust" guide, and it's helped my ZvT a lot. I'm gold pushing for plat; this is helpful. Thanks! :D edit: It occurred to me that my entire life I was under the presumption that 3 workers per mineral patch was the ideal number. I feel like my entire life has been a lie. edit edit: Oh I get it now after reading comments. 16 drones, 2 per patch, is where you hit the wall of diminishing returns. Yeah, you will make more money with 3 on each patch, but you're better off with 16 on one base and 16 on the other, than 24 on one(2 per patch) and 12 on the other(the rest). Or whatever. Maximum of 16 per base until you have greater than 16x the number of bases you have. AH. This makes sense. You still make more money, up to saturation, but between 16-24 the return per drone is much less. Aha. Thanks Tang. | ||
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
You know what I find annoying? The quite large discrepancy that exists between economy in some maps (with same mineral field counts). I don't know if this happens with other races aside from zerg (I would think it does, maybe not to the same degree), but I've noticed around a 5-7 second difference on different maps when building an overlord and pool. Xel'naga caverns gives the fastest economy I've seen (be it top position or bottom — although top is maybe 1 second less), while many other maps are significantly slower such as daybreak — even if the minerals are mined optimally. I find this to be most annoying as a zerg, since many builds early on require strict timings, and 7 seconds (or more if you also don't mine optimally) can really make significant holes in builds such as losing larvas. The best example I can think of is 11 overpool build, where the difference in economy can be between losing most of a larva and virtually no fraction of a larva. | ||
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BriMikon
United States82 Posts
Thanks again for your time. | ||
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Xelyxiz
United Kingdom16 Posts
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