[G]/[D] Why You Lose and How to Win -Using APM effectively…

On June 27 2012 05:27 nanoscorp wrote:
For lower level players, I think it's worth finding a number of production structures that works for your APM / multitasking and lets you zero out your resources regularly. If you instead choke your production with the leanest build possible, ie something pros use, you may end up floating a ton of resources that could have been used to win the game. As you play, push yourself to keep hitting those macro cycles. If you're using excess infrastructure, eventually you should hit a point where your economy can't keep up. That's basically where you can improve, either through more consistent worker production, or trimming the fat so you have more army.

On June 27 2012 05:27 nanoscorp wrote:
For lower level players, I think it's worth finding a number of production structures that works for your APM / multitasking and lets you zero out your resources regularly. If you instead choke your production with the leanest build possible, ie something pros use, you may end up floating a ton of resources that could have been used to win the game. As you play, push yourself to keep hitting those macro cycles. If you're using excess infrastructure, eventually you should hit a point where your economy can't keep up. That's basically where you can improve, either through more consistent worker production, or trimming the fat so you have more army.

On June 28 2012 10:24 Kharnage wrote:
Great post.

Leaving it open to review before each time I load SC2 to make sure I ahve soemthing productive to focus on.




This was my advice for a bronze friend starting zerg.
Floating minerals? build another macro hatch. Missing injects, use the extra energy on the macro hatch. Simple way to ensure he got a lot of units without having perfect injects.

On June 19 2012 23:34 Grubbegrabbn wrote:
Great guide, I have just one small addition to make.

Silver league nowadays is nothing like silver league when the game was released. Saying that its currently possible to win in silver league with just mass queens is silly. Perhaps its possible if youre a smurfing GM but its not a general strategy I would suggest to anyone. Same goes for mass marines only. I beleive even Dragon failed at mass marines @silver league in a smurf session I catched a couple of months ago.

There are good bronze/silver/gold guides for beginners right here in these forums (by FilterSC among others), just point to them instead.

The rest is good stuff though, will use it to try to hit gold (if I can just convince myself to quit playing silly 4v4's).

On June 29 2012 08:45 TehTemplar wrote:
according to this I am diamond. (plat protoss)
Still, pretty helpful to the people that are able to use their hands.
Good job.

On June 29 2012 23:54 Chvol wrote:
If you focus on micro, you can keep your banshee alive longer; not only doing more damage but taking more of your opponent's attention. This will cut into their macro as well as your own. If you just sit around passively macroing, the opponent will have no problem doing the same.

I don't think it's particularly useful to focus on macro or micro exclusively. The real difficulty lies in doing both semi simultaneously. That's what wins you games, and even if you suck at it, just keep trying to do both at the same time.

On July 01 2012 03:28 NiNjAPlation wrote:
Hey man just have to say im a gold protoss who has been having so much trouble lately, after a defeat at the tsl qualifiers by haypro, where i lost because of soley macro i got really discourged, i mean ofc i didn't expect to win, but i hated losing just because a core skill wasnt good. Then i went back to ladder and just kept on getting destroyed i took a look at your thread, and it has helped so much, ive found that even when players do somthing weird i can just out macro them and end up wining, b4 i had focused so much on some really micro intensive play, alot of sentries, warp prisim, ht, etc. Trying to do things that i could do but my macro would slip and i would lose because my army just wasnt big enough or my econ was just not good. But ever since i started just looking at my base, im just out macroing and wining, its nice to win again as recently i went on an 8 game losing streak that really discouraged me and made me want to quit sc2. So thanks man <3, and i hope it can help others as well.

On June 30 2012 06:34 PencilFlavor wrote:
Hello, I'm a silver league Protoss player and I've been wondering, when would be a good time to attack? Also, what should I do in the case where the other player has siege tanks? Every time I attack when they have siege tanks, my army gets obliterated.

On June 09 2012 09:38 shaun3h wrote:
i dont know if maybe the gold/plat zerg advice is wierd because usa is diff to eu server but i find the advice strange.. (only gold top8 EU atm)

adversity to mutas: yes they are micro intensive but for the apm i put in a protoss needs to use some to defend them. The pressure of them helps discourage the protoss moving out helping you further your tech/upgrades. if they cant deal with it well.. or weren't going stalkers you can do really nice damage easily (punish immo sentry heavy pushes)

adversity to infestors: obviously they cant attack making them a bit risky to rely on but consider this.. run 1/2 lings at an expo.. see no cannon.. run 1-4 burrowed infestors in and hold shift, press T and spam click then still holding shift right click back to mid/yourbase.. you have easy damage forcing a reaction from them. Once practised you can set this up in like 2 seconds and do it just after a round of injects or something so im barely losing anything and if the protoss is out of position or doesnt react well they could lose the expo let alone a lot of workers for just energy.

Only ling roach: unless you're planning on allin every game i dont understand this. infestors are superb at aoe damage useful in every matchup (perhaps most zvzs this level dont reach that). If a protoss sees only roachling and builds right or a terran doesnt get caught unsieged it just seems unlikely you can trade with these past 10minutes. (also without muta/inf how you deal with drops?)

scouting P seems light: does he have colly... i would replace with 9scout on the 1v1maps. pylon highground = gateopening expect pressure. See pylon lowground = FFE can go more eco (3base no gas anyone?:D ) , watch for natural gas, expect 2base push usually.

some other more general thoughts:
-idea of shift clicking to allow you to do more things easier (obviously dangerous in some situations but in most it can help LOADS.. shiftclicking drones, sorting drops, focusing prio targets, pathing a scout early when you have less to do anyway, etc
- A-moving is all well and good but sometimes micro'ing/focus firing is necessary.. banes through a group of marines instead of amove.. mutas picking tanks... picking off either sentries/immortals in zvp.. lingbane v lingbane in zvz control can't wait til diamond imo. I understand i dont have the apm to do everything but there comes a time when making stuff 5seconds later is worth it if you lose 30 less supply in a fight because of the micro

TL;DR = i think you underestimate what people are capable of. I understand the "don't run before you can walk" but i think even gold nubs like me could surprise you playing against plats and diamonds with macro builds and the more relaxed ladder now. Sometimes i think you gotta push the babybird outa the nest to see it can fly

This is from a *much* lower skilled player's perspective so im open to the idea i'll get slated and people may disagree but i feel if i played along the guidelines provided i would be a lot worse and some of my greatest games wouldn't have been possible if i wasn't trying to stretch myself.

On July 01 2012 05:15 MrLlama wrote:
A good time to attack in what match up? Also it really depends on what unit comp you have and etc. In PvZ I'd say try to attack around 10:30 off of 2 bases. This should be when you start to really build up a nice unit composition. PvP is very tough to say because it depends what he is doing so I can't really give you a time for that. PvT you'll want to hit once you get a sizeable army. Protoss generally wants to just get that awesome massive army so don't feel any urgency to really attack too much at that level. Instead, keep the defenders position and build up a nice army.

On July 01 2012 09:37 PencilFlavor wrote:

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm sticking with a pure gateway army since that's what you suggested in your bronze/silver section. So would it be preferable if I just maxed out then A moved into the other person's base? Also, sorry for asking this again, but what do I do against siege tanks? I usually try to contain, but they often drop inside of my base and beat me.