EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 148
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
For example Razer Abyssus, which I'd rate at the very top of mid-priced ambidextrous fingertip grip mice, has no M4 or M5. | ||
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furyofSkanks
32 Posts
Ninjury_J ..... I think Enter--- it's just better then using f8 for idle worker. This key is too far away. In the start of the match I can easily hit ctrl-Enter to select all workers and drone split. (Auto worker split, I think is inferior, if you wanted to be a perfectionist, you would split them yourself) I use ' of course as a hotkey often so enter is right beside it, and the index finger doesn't mispress enter, if it does it's not fatal. ALSO**** if enter is idle worker and you mis-press it, and I do.... 99% of the time it will do nothing as there will be no idle worker. I swapped out tab for enter many months ago, and you guys are coming to the same conclusion that I have it seems. Enter for chat is bad, you hit it while spamming or just hitting it in a battle and then you can lose the whole game for that because the chat box comes up. Then you have to press escape or something dumb making you move your entire hand! You never want to have idle workers and you do use it occasionally in game.... It's all about not moving your hand when you don't have to. (I think) Yeah so... tab for chat and shift tab for alternate who you talk to.... enter for idle worker. I'm trying out Jak's initial idea of putting rotate right and rotate left camera on m4&m5. (Logically it makes sense to have the mouse for adjusting the game view... I've seen pro's zoom in and zoom out before to defend vs 6 pools etc...) (As far as rotate camera... I use this with zoom to kill the scv building the rax vs terran for example, sometimes you can click the scv when you normally wouldn't be able to see it because of the rotate camera)... It is useful, and having it on home and end or ins or del is to far away for me to press shift and j while clicking on the scv. (So it's much better for me .... you have to shift click and hit the attack button while clicking on the scv... and you have to rotate the screen so you can see the SCV ) -- But it's not a deal breaker in any setup, it can't be that important I don't think. (Just a small touch) Trying to put alt m4 as next subgroup alt m5 as last subgroup etc..... Just so I'm close to the core, maybe there's something there it will take a lot of practice, and I do use the next subgroup button etc... but not as often as I'd like. (I'm 100% sure yet if rotate camera should be shift-M4 , M4 would be last subgroup or vice versa etc...) I used to use M5 for backspace or next camera key, which is faster then using the backspace key with injects... but, there is no need to do it. So maybe, there is a better use for M4&M5. I tried using M4 for the hotkey that I use for my infestors, but it's not really any better (I mean I think anyway... I couldn't get in the hang of not using the keyboard for it, and it never felt that great for me ) . For some reason M5 is a key I can press and use quickly and it feels good, while M4 is slow for me. (I assume this is true for everyone?) You know the button near your body on the side of the mouse? (The good button -- M5) While M4 is not as fast and feels akward. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
EDIT: until I learn to post it: my apm using / with my thumb was highest at 264. My apm using m5 was highest at 300. I know there are people faster than me, but it stands to reason they'd be faster at both, especially considering I type more than I use m5. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
EDIT #1: I fixed the skydrive. It is updated with 0.6.3 | ||
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furyofSkanks
32 Posts
I like "THE CORE" of the core, the hotkey setup etc... and always want to know the reasons for the way things are. Everyone might customize it a little bit, seems reasonable to me. Thanks for your work! | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
I'm not sure which version of TheCore you are on, but idle worker has been moved from the F keys. For instance, in RRM, F8 is Cancel, and 7 is idle worker. | ||
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Byah
Canada2 Posts
The only issue I do see is when a mouse does not have the necessary buttons. I don't know what to say about that and I don't pretend I have an answer. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
My grip is not fingertip, though. I rest the palm of my hand with the mouse and stabilize with my thumb and ring finger, and pinky on the sides. Logitech G500. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
I think people are making a fuss b/c since the beginning, the usage of mouse buttons has been an optional thing with TheCore, specifically because some people feel okay using them, some people don't like using them at all (probably correlates with whether they use fingertip grip or not), and some people don't have mouse buttons at all. Now, right before the official 1.0 release, it's being thrown out there that there will no longer be a choice, every layout will require the usage of mouse buttons. It's a huge change imo. | ||
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Byah
Canada2 Posts
I think that the reason for having 2 layouts at first was to see which layout was more efficient, not to give us a choice between them. If everything until now was just building up to the release of 1.0, then it makes sense that only one of the two would make the cut. Had ideas like this surfaced earlier, we might not have seen the dual layouts to begin with. So yes, for some, the change would feel massive, but that is not inherently a bad thing. We all want the same thing: optimal controls. We all had to abandon the controls we were used to in favor of the Core. It made sense then and I think that if people start testing this, it may make sense now. Another thing I would like to add is that in the event that 1.0 includes mouse buttons, nobody is forcing anyone to use them. I use an older version of the large layout that i keep changing and it suits me very well. The Core sets up a nice framework, but it can always be individually optimized. | ||
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Pelirrojo
United States98 Posts
I remember being against the control/shift changes at first, too. I remember thinking to myself, "this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard - control+shift to make control groups wtf!", but it turned out to be pretty amazing once I got used to it. I've grown to like my Abyssus a lot, though  Most mice with side buttons are twice as heavy. Oh well. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
In this version it will be very easy for someone who doesn't have mouse buttons to use. They only need to rebind next or previous subgroup button in place of one of their rotate camera buttons. This means that they will only have 1 subgroup button and 1 camera rotate button, but keep in mind, TheCore as it is now offers 1 subgroup and 0 camera rotate buttons. It is very likely that the reason pressing a key on the keyboard with the thumb is slower than pressing a side mouse button is that the motion of pressing a key on the keyboard with the thumb is not in the ergonomic motion of grabbing a ball or pressing buttons on the side of the mouse. Ideally we'd be playing on gamepads in which the modifiers could be pressed with this type of gripping motion. | ||
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Borskey
160 Posts
I've noticed I can't deselect units- I know both F8 and Esc "cancels" something (ie, say I try to build some structure but then change my mind). I'm pretty sure it used to be that if I hit Esc with a unit selected I could unselect it. I find myself wanting to clear my unit selection so that I can pre-set base cams in the right locations at the start of the game. Since setting a camera uses alt, it automatically centers on the unit I have selected, I can't set my natural cam unless I don't have anything selected. I'm guessing I'm missing some weird setting or something. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
You cannot deselect units by using a button in game. That is a function for replays and obs only. To set up your base cameras make sure you watch the Quick Start guide video in the OP titled Opening Sequence. | ||
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Borskey
160 Posts
I know I never had a reason to back in WoL, but I thought that you could. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:31 Borskey wrote: Hmm, were you ever able to deselect units? I know I never had a reason to back in WoL, but I thought that you could. You can shift+click to deselect, but you don't have to when using TheCore. This is answered in the FAQ, but basically: 1) Hold down alt with your starting command center/hatch/nexus selected. 2) Set base cam 1. 3) While still holding down alt, click on the minimap at another base location 4) Press the hotkey to set base cam. 5) Repeat steps 3-4 as many times as needed. | ||
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fengshaun
149 Posts
On March 21 2013 22:26 Ninjury_J wrote: TLDR: Next and previous subgroup on the mouse buttons is a more efficient way to maneuver, allowing the user to get back to microing faster. Further, / and Z bring a host of advantages that TheCore can benefit from. note: I read the whole thing, and only quoted the TLDR for space reasons. I think I agree with that. The way TheCore is set up right now, the only time I find myself using the subgroup key is with my <Queen+Evo+Spire+other upgrade structures> (should I be doing it differently?) on the layered P group. And if this is going to make pooping creep tumors easier and burrow/unburrow better, hey, I'm in! Although, I'll have to eventually make my own changes again since I can only use 1 of the mouse keys comfortably. The other one is really uncomfortable. Now, what changes exactly do I need to make on my copy of Core to test this thing out? Unless you're going to release another version with the changes to be tried. On another note, does anyone know if "scroll up" and "scroll down" and M3 (middle mouse button) can be reprogrammed in SC2 itself? I personally never zoom in or out and it seems comfortable enough to do so! | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:53 fengshaun wrote: On another note, does anyone know if "scroll up" and "scroll down" and M3 (middle mouse button) can be reprogrammed in SC2 itself? I personally never zoom in or out and it seems comfortable enough to do so! I believe M3 can be, but not scroll up and down. However, what I use is autohotkey and I have set scroll up to "Y" and scroll down to "G" which are my free cameras. This makes setting and resetting my free cameras incredibly simple and FAST. I use one cam for rally, and the other for the boundary of my creep spread. This saves me from having to hotkey my creep spreading queens. It's also useful if I want to "come right back to this spot" but I need to go check on something else real fast. I simply press shift and scroll up, go do whatever I need to do, then scroll up again to recall and snap right back to where I was. Lots faster than using my pinky. Also, another fun use of re-binding the wheel scroll is to rebind it to a mouse click. Then you can do uber fast infested terrans and ghost snipes. I'm quite sure this is not tournament legal, but since I'm only making the wheel press one single key, I don't personally have any ethical problems with it, so I'll keep using it. | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
Disclaimer: I am a bronze level player with ~280apm. I'm not very good since I'm very new, but I've watched many games and I think I know how to play rather well. (just can't do it haha). | ||
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