EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 143
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Juvator
Netherlands199 Posts
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Rorance
Canada41 Posts
I have been a FPS player since UT'99 with most of my time playing games being Counter-Strike by far. I grew up with my hand over Shift-WAD-Space and as such my pinky finger is especially prone to locking up and getting extremely sore and fatigued by the time i'm done my first game. Also it's extremely inaccurate, even when i'm just staring at the keyboard trying to hit keys my pinky refuses to get out of it's locked position it's been in for the past 15 years over my shift key. I have always used my pinky as a sort of anchor point to find any other key, it never leaves shift. Is this something a lot of practice will alleviate? or are there any stretches people have done who experienced the same set backs? Even when i'm typing the QWASZX keys are all pressed by my ring finger >.< | ||
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Tinweasele
22 Posts
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Zebansis
United States6 Posts
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdFQ4LVlIcllUUWtGUVY4cWxyLXd6QUE#gid=21 For the Small / Large key-sets, i just realized, and what added to my confusion, I am using TRS, the small version is just more comfortable. That being said is there a compilation of the Small key-sets just like this one that was done for the Medium? Edit: I figured out how to find whats mapped to what in game so I got my question answered. Reading what to press and seeing the layouts made all the difference in the world. That being said, it would be nice to have the reference sheet for the small layouts if its not to much trouble. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
@ Zabansis: It's possible that Jak makes one for the official release. I do not know his plans, however. | ||
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apocriva
Canada66 Posts
 I tried out TheCore for the first time last night, and my only complaint thus far is how extensively my pinky is used to hit keys. I've got pretty bad carpal tunnel problems in that finger, I guess. Any thoughts on how to alleviate that? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Is there an equivalent for having my left hand on the left side of the keyboard normally, even though in theory it might be a bit less optimal(in practice I'm sure it's actually better at least for me and other people whose pinky finger isn't nearly as good as the three other fingers) or do I need to just try to improvise something? | ||
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apocriva
Canada66 Posts
Wait that's not a question. The question is "What do I do?" lol Edit: It would help if I could read! lol 2b. What if I want to set the "base location cameras" on an area where there is no building? If you want to set one of the 6 cameras intended to be set on an area where there is a building, press and hold alt, then click on the minimap where you want the camera do be and press the key for that location. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
Now some observations from someone using 0.6.2, TRM layout: 1) I'm a believer in the pinky. J, H, and M feel very natural and quick. 2) I see the potential in the thumb. While it's not natural yet, camera switching is far easier. Still getting used to tabbed production with '/', but I believe I'll get there. 3) I agree with a previous post, that using TAB for messaging would be better than "Enter". Messaging isn't necessary for winning, so why not free it up for something more important? It's also slightly error prone in a bad kind of way. 4) U for liftoff seems error prone and possibly dangerous (right by 'I' for SCV production). I've accidentally lifted my CC more in the last week than since the WoL beta.  On the other hand, the system is supposed to be optimal for efficiency and ergonomics, not for ease of learning. I can see the need for "liftoff/land" being faster than say "tech lab". Time will tell if the lifted CC problem goes away.5) A little time on a hot key trainer definitely pays off. I believe making changes right now isn't giving the system a fair shake. Even then the changes I'd consider at this point are minimal. Currently, my plan is to get 100-200 games under my belt before making any deviations from the vanilla TRM layout. Also, I intend to do 15 minutes a day on the hotkey trainer for the next week or so in addition to ladder. Again, thanks. | ||
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Ticcie
Netherlands43 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:19 Ninjury_J wrote: ... Without a use I agree it's confusing and unnecessary. I think we can find something though. I want to say that I think the argument "it gets it out of the way so you don't press it by accident" is a bad one, though. This is because making chat different neither changes the probability of pressing the enter button by mistake, nor does it change the fact that any button can be pressed accidenty anyways. ... It does not change the probability of hitting the wrong key, but recovery from accidentally hitting the chat key takes more effort than other misses, since you need to get the chat field off your UI again. So moving chat away is +EV imo. @Jak: There is still a conflict with the F2 and F4 keys for toggling sound/music when you are in the menu. It is a minor thing since the 'play again' button makes using them a lot less frequent, but they have their uses. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:05 Ticcie wrote: It does not change the probability of hitting the wrong key, but recovery from accidentally hitting the chat key takes more effort than other misses, since you need to get the chat field off your UI again. So moving chat away is +EV imo. ... My thought, too. The penalty for mistake is potentially greater. Secondly, chat is only important in team games, and even then, anyone serious should be on voice. Why give chat anything close to a good key? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
First I want to thank you all for being patient with me. My computer has been down and I haven't been able to access what I want to make changes and consider options. It is still down for now and I will let you know when I'm back up and running again (should be in the next couple of days). Large and Small Reference Documents Keeping the medium one accurate and up to date is a bit of a pain already. If we decide to make a large/small one as well, it will take an extensive amount of work/upkeep. I'm still unsure if I'll be able to do this. Making a CG Smaller or Remove from CG There was never a button that would remove something from a CG. The closest thing that you can do is the following: 1. Select the CG in question. 2. Shift click each single item you want out of your CG. or 2. Ctrl+Shift click each group of items you want out of your CG. (really great for removing barracks or warpgates from your army) 3. Create your new CG by pressing Ctrl+Shift and the key for the CG. Done! :D Your Pinky and You Your pinky (though it may not be trained now) has the highest potential for strength, dexterity, and independent motion out of your 4 fingers (the thumb is the best in this regard). What we care about however is not strength, but the latter 2 attributes. However, the pinky is almost always the least used finger, so training it will take time and patience for some. The muscles that control fine motor functions are very small and fragile, so if you have a particularly untrained pinky, make sure to take breaks whenever it is getting tired. It is like building any muscle, when you work it out, it will become sore, and will need enough time to recover. For pinky training with TheCore, I suggest starting with just attack move (J for xRMx), and any other function that key has. Then, once that key is comfortable, branch out to another pinky key etc until you have all the keys mastered and comfortable. (Playing Monobattles on certain units is often the best way to accomplish this (or use TheStaircase) If you absolutely can't hack it. Chameleon is the closest to TheCore you can get without the thumb on the modifiers. Changes for 1.0 Like I mentioned previously, my computer is out of commission for now, which means I can't test, reorganize, and make changes to TheCore for now. When I can, these are my plans: 1. Put unburrow to ability 1. burrow will remain on ability 3. 2. Swap Lift/Land and Add-on priority. 3. Consider moving Tab to chat for all right handed versions. 4. Re-do observing hotkeys so that they do not conflict with playing hotkeys. I wanted to have 1.0 out a lot sooner, but my PSU crapped out at a really inconvenient time, so its going to be a bit later than expected. If there's a question that you asked that was unanswered please re-ask it (sorry if I missed anything). GLHF, JaK | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:11 Smackzilla wrote: My thought, too. The penalty for mistake is potentially greater. Secondly, chat is only important in team games, and even then, anyone serious should be on voice. Why give chat anything close to a good key? I guess I just don't see the problem. Enter is not an easy key to press for medium or large right-handed layouts. I think I may have pressed Enter by mistake once or twice over the course of 200+ games with TheCore, and each time was just b/c I had my hand positioned incorrectly and wasn't resting on the home keys, and I was pressing all the wrong buttons entirely, and the Chat prompt coming up was actually a useful indication that my hand was in the wrong location. So, why keep chat on Enter? Because if you're a quick typer, and you're used to using Enter for all typing that you do in every application ever created, it's most comfortable to keep chat on Enter. When you do decide to chat while using TheCore, it's nice to be able to chat quickly and comfortably. So, in my opinion, you have: Moving chat to Tab for medium/large right-handed layouts Pros:
I don't really see how pressing Enter by accident is a real problem for people. Either you have to move your thumb way up awkwardly, or rotate your hand awkwardly to be able to reach it with your index finger. Unless Enter is going to be used for something useful (e.g. camera rotation on Enter and Backslash?), moving it away does more harm than good. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
Con #1 is perfectly legit, however, it has no impact on winning/losing. An accidental Enter is one of the nastier mistakes you can make. Con #2 has nothing to do with efficiency, but only ease of learning. In that sense, it seems outside the philosophy of theCore from the original post. "The time has come to choose between what is right, and what is easy." In short, chat has nothing to do with becoming a mechanical beast, so it should be very low priority. Secondly, even the best players make mistakes, so the impact of those mistakes should be minimized if there is little or no cost to the solution. Cons #1 and #2 have nothing to do with winning or efficiency, therefore their cost is zero. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
If the rest of you guys really think Enter is a legitimate risk for mis-hitting, or more importantly, can come up with a legitimate use for it (e.g. camera rotation), then fine, sure, go ahead and switch it. I will still be using Enter for chat, regardless of which direction Jak chooses to go. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
P.S. I'm not convinced that you even have to assign something to Enter to justify moving chat to TAB. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
P.S. I think moving chat from enter to tab is stupid. | ||
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fengshaun
149 Posts
Again, everyone is free to do what he pleases with the layout. Forcing it on everyone without a very good reason is not welcome, however. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
Nobody plans on forcing anyone to do anything. Jak is going to do his best to do some research and try to come up with the best possible answer. Personally, I think it is only a good move if we find something to put on enter. Enter is an "8" and we use keys as high as 9 and 10, so i think we can definitely find an efficient use. | ||
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