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On February 27 2013 23:51 ShaolinZorg wrote:
Hi There,
I am new to SC2 and willing to start freshly with this new layout;
I have read some post but obviously not all, thus I apologize if I ask some questions that have already been answered :
- Is there a difference between "The Core" "The Core+" ?
- Can I play the WoL campaign with the core ?
- Is The Core HoS ready (multi and campaign)
- I am playing toss, should I use the default core toss layout or are there any variants recommended for beginner ?
Thanks,
Shao
Welcome Shao!
- There is no "TheCore+" -- it was an idea that was tossed around, but then we had to abandon it because Blizzard changed their policy towards hotkey conflicts.
- Yes, you can play the WoL campaign with TheCore!
- TheCore is ready for HotS multiplayer (although this changes balance update to balance update, so I don't think we've updated it with the transformation servos upgrade yet from the latest balance update). Because we don't yet know what new units and abilities will be featured in the campaign, there is no way for us to make it compatible with the HotS campaign until after the game is actually released. Rest assured, though, we will be working hard after release to get it compatible with the HotS campaign!
- Which layout you select just depends on whether you are righty or lefty, the size of your hands, and whether or not you want to use the buttons on the side of your mouse as control groups. If you are an average right-handed player, then you would want to select PRM (Protoss, Right-handed, Medium hands) or PRMM (Protoss, Right-handed, Medium hands, and Mouse control groups), depending on whether or not you want to use side mouse buttons for control groups.
Gl hf!
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Edit: JDub the awesome beat me to it. :p
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Welcome Shao!
[...]
- Which layout you select just depends on whether you are righty or lefty, the size of your hands, and whether or not you want to use the buttons on the side of your mouse as control groups. If you are an average right-handed player, then you would want to select PRM (Protoss, Right-handed, Medium hands) or PRMM (Protoss, Right-handed, Medium hands, and Mouse control groups), depending on whether or not you want to use side mouse buttons for control groups.
Gl hf!
Wow, that's what I call a fast answer  thanks !
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Working on getting the transformation servos patch updated for TheCore, should be out sometime today
EDIT: this is the line for the hotkey file for transformation servos:
ResearchTransformationServos/FactoryTechLab=X
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Hello,
I tried the core yesterday and here is my feedback so far, please bear in mind that I a m a new SC2 player wishing to get a fresh start with the best available tools at my disposal; I am right handed and play protoss
- CTRL-SHIFT-ALT + any key : can you really use this combination effectively ? Althought I play some piano and have some hand agility, I found my hand very twisted and very unconfortable, warp-in (ctrl-shif-alt F9) is an hand-ache to perform and was insta remapped to F9;
- My assumption so far is that you should never use your right hand on the keyboard, always on mouse, is it correct ?
thanks,
shao
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Love TheCore so far, thanks for your time developing this!
There are just a few things that i want to comment on. The following might sound abit negative even though it is not inteded to be criticism, that's just how i feel about it.
1. I'm not sure if there are any Terrans contributing to the development, because i feel that the layout in general is zerg biased. Best example are the layered cams. I don't know where exactly i would benefit of having "Set Cam" and "Center on Current Selection" on the same hotkey. I usually set all base cams directly at the beginning and don't touch them ever again. It also doesn't matter if they are slightly offset. If you play Zerg then maybe it's different because you benefit of centered base cams for injects. Including a feature for one race that might be annoying for the other two races is kind of biased. That was the first thing i changed when i started using TheCore.
2. Another example that there is (propably) no Terran view. The "Select Builder" hotkey is currently not even mapped to anything useful. I'm playing with TRMM (JIOP) and the hotkey is on "E". How am i supposed to use that, even if it's only a few times per game?
3. The Cancel hotkey. I use it far too often for it to be soooooo far away. I think it was F8 in TRMM and i mapped it to ".". It should be in reach, especially if you play Terran and start queueing up in a tense game situation. Afterwards you should at least have the possibility of removing the queues fast. Again this is a feature that Zergs don't need because their unit production doesn't allow for queueing.
4. Reactor and TechLab. I know that in previous versions of TheCore they have been alot closer, irc they were overlapped with build basic and build advanced. Now they are on G and Y for TRMM which is uncomfortable two buttons away for the resting position of my pinky. They probably moved there due to the newly added units in HotS and the need of closer hotkeys. As i don't really know where to put them i will have to get used to them where they are.
5. The new modifiers for control groups. I love it. No really, this is so great i can't even express it in words. Adding new units with Ctrl to an already formed control group is so fast and easy right now. Just great! Using Shift to create control groups gives you similiar benefits. If you have your army in an control group and want to send one unit somewhere on the map then just send the whole control group, shift click on the unit you want to go and with shift being pressed create the new control group without the unit you have sent away! Afterwards move your control group to somewhere else or just stop it and your lonely unit is still on it's path and more importantly not in the army control group any more. I think using Shift instead of Shift+Ctrl to create control groups is alot more valueable than for recalling base cams. Again this is a feature that Zergs might see different due to the inject mechanics.
The rest of the setup is pure gold. Just imagine a pro gamer who is used to this setup. Right now their keyboard hand is flying almost all around the keyboard during a game (i.e. all bases hotkeyd to 9 or 0). The efficency boost would be insane...
Keep up the great work!
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On February 28 2013 18:21 ShaolinZorg wrote:
Hello,
I tried the core yesterday and here is my feedback so far, please bear in mind that I a m a new SC2 player wishing to get a fresh start with the best available tools at my disposal; I am right handed and play protoss
- CTRL-SHIFT-ALT + any key : can you really use this combination effectively ? Althought I play some piano and have some hand agility, I found my hand very twisted and very unconfortable, warp-in (ctrl-shif-alt F9) is an hand-ache to perform and was insta remapped to F9;
- My assumption so far is that you should never use your right hand on the keyboard, always on mouse, is it correct ?
thanks,
shao
Anything that's mapped to CTRL+SHIFT+ALT is not meant to be used. Apparently (I play Zerg) using a dedicated production hotkey is more efficient than using a production hotkey and a warp-in key.
On your second question: you have one hand which is always on the keyboard and another which is always on the mouse.
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Anything that's mapped to CTRL+SHIFT+ALT is not meant to be used.
Apparently (I play Zerg) using a dedicated production hotkey is more efficient than using a production hotkey and a warp-in key
ok,thanks in the meantime I just found this in the FAQ :
TheCore stresses tabbed production over things like the "Warp In" key. After weighing the pros and cons of each we found tabbed production to be superior. If you want to use the "Warp In" key, feel free to bind in the the place of one of the control groups.
fine but I don't know exactly what is "tabbed production" , is there any video example about "tabbed production" for warp-in ?
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German Layout TRM
Why is "building turret" ä-ä while bunker is ä-h?
You often want to build bunkers quickly because you are rushing or under imminent pressure, maybe you could look into this.
Of course turrets are important to build fast, too, but i hope you get what i mean
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On February 28 2013 18:35 ShaolinZorg wrote:Show nested quote +Anything that's mapped to CTRL+SHIFT+ALT is not meant to be used.
Apparently (I play Zerg) using a dedicated production hotkey is more efficient than using a production hotkey and a warp-in key
ok,thanks in the meantime I just found this in the FAQ : Show nested quote +TheCore stresses tabbed production over things like the "Warp In" key. After weighing the pros and cons of each we found tabbed production to be superior. If you want to use the "Warp In" key, feel free to bind in the the place of one of the control groups.
fine but I don't know exactly what is "tabbed production" , is there any video example about "tabbed production" for warp-in ?
Tabbed production means that you use the tab key (or whatever "next subgroup" has been remapped to in your particular layout) to switch between facilities on one hotkey. For example, if you have a gateway and a robo selected at the same time, you will end up with the gateway options available, so you can for example build a zealot. If you then press "next subgroup" you end up with the robo options available and you can now build observers.
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+ Show Spoiler +For example, if you have a gateway and a robo selected at the same time
Instead, why not create 1 group per building type ?
this way inside one group of one type you just spam building orders then cycle to the next building group .. ?
why subgroupping is considered more efficient ?
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On February 28 2013 20:00 ShaolinZorg wrote:+ Show Spoiler +For example, if you have a gateway and a robo selected at the same time Instead, why not create 1 group per building type ? this way inside one group of one type you just spam building orders then cycle to the next building group .. ? why subgroupping is considered more efficient ?
The only thing I can think of is that you only have to set one rally point.
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Center alt on selection messes up autocast toogle - it centers the screen on selected units (i.e. scvs, carriers etc), which is ultra annoying mid-late game, when you micro your army and BAM its all messed up when your camera snaps to random place.
On February 28 2013 20:00 ShaolinZorg wrote:+ Show Spoiler +For example, if you have a gateway and a robo selected at the same time Instead, why not create 1 group per building type ? this way inside one group of one type you just spam building orders then cycle to the next building group .. ? why subgroupping is considered more efficient ?
Macro cycle is more efficient with single control group with all production facilities.
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On February 28 2013 20:18 Czarnodziej wrote:
Macro cycle is more efficient with single control group with all production facilities.
can you explain why?
lets say i want to build an immortal and a void ray
Way 1: Select robo group, build immortal, select stargate group, build void ray
Way 2: Select production group, build immortal, press cycle, build void ray
both require 4 actions.
But if you want to build only a void ray:
Way 1: Select void ray group, build void ray.
Way2: Select production group, press cycle, build void ray.
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Having separate group can be faster. But it requires more control group, which could be used as flank/harrass/spellcast group.
On the other hand, with one macro group you can see all your production facilities and their queues.
It is really a matter of preference.
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On February 28 2013 20:51 Czarnodziej wrote:
It is really a matter of preference.
Yeah that is what I think, too, But two posts ago you said having a single control group is more efficient. ._.
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Macro cycle = constant production from all facilities.
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On February 28 2013 20:26 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 20:18 Czarnodziej wrote:
Macro cycle is more efficient with single control group with all production facilities. can you explain why? lets say i want to build an immortal and a void ray Way 1: Select robo group, build immortal, select stargate group, build void ray Way 2: Select production group, build immortal, press cycle, build void ray both require 4 actions. But if you want to build only a void ray: Way 1: Select void ray group, build void ray. Way2: Select production group, press cycle, build void ray.
Stargate have a higher priority so in both cases it's a tie. But, you ignored Gateways so TheCore is still the same or worse.
Regardless, if your question is: "are there certain cases where TheCore is the same or worse than another setup" then I would answer "yes". I do not doubt that for a second.
I'll go even better: researching Banshee Cloak: Select control group, cycle Factory, cycle Starport, cycle Barracks TechLab, cycle Factory TechLab, cycle Starport TechLab, oh thank goodness Cloak;
Now, assuming a macro game with production from 2 or 3 bases (so x Gate, y Robo, z Stargate) TheCore allows you to monitor all production queues with one keypress, and refill queues using the cycle key.
Same for Nexus and all upgrades on another key.
Two keys to monitor all production. So in the case of Protoss you will be hitting that Warpgate key a lot, which means you will be checking your Stargate and Robo a lot. In the case of Terran, while spamming those infernal Marines you will see if you need to refresh the queue for spamming those infernal hellions. While building workers you'll immediately see if you're ready for another upgrade. Etc, etc.
And every single one of those checks is one less keypress than if they were separate keys.
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I am a big fan of "tabbed production" but I like to tab backward as Terran, as you generally want to build those gas unit first then spend the remaining minerals on marines. I would really like the building priority to be reversed. Tabbing backward still use one more keypress than necessary.
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On February 28 2013 21:26 Stow.Wif wrote:
I am a big fan of "tabbed production" but I like to tab backward as Terran, as you generally want to build those gas unit first then spend the remaining minerals on marines.I would really like the building priority to be reversed. Tabbing backward still use one more keypress than necessary.
For the record, if anyone finds out at a Blizzcon or on a forum who you have to sleep with to get customised priorities I'm prepared to take one for the team.
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EPT
