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TheJaKaTaK - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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rikter
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 19:16:57
September 24 2012 19:08 GMT
#241
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.
No one wants a box of shit, even if it is for Christmas.
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
September 24 2012 19:25 GMT
#242
On September 25 2012 04:05 kollin wrote:
Rikter I too think that you should put up a more detailed guide to your training method. I was thinking of doing something like that, being inspired by the prime terrans way of improving their mechanics, but I don't really have the time T_T


In case people missed what the Prime Terran training style was. Artosis described the Prime Terran method in his blog awhile back with the pros and cons.

http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/24330196542/learning-the-game-in-phases-some-quick-thoughts
SirPsychoMantis
Profile Joined December 2011
United States180 Posts
September 24 2012 19:55 GMT
#243
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.


You seem to contradict yourself especially with:

On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
A proper system has a lot of content in it ... Besides, for a newb all that is overload.


The point of a learning system, is to avoid that overload. You are talking about creating a giant database of information? The jakatak system is for new people.
Zerg #1
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
September 24 2012 20:12 GMT
#244
On September 25 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.


You seem to contradict yourself especially with:

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
A proper system has a lot of content in it ... Besides, for a newb all that is overload.


The point of a learning system, is to avoid that overload. You are talking about creating a giant database of information? The jakatak system is for new people.


To be fair, I think he is saying the research and presentation of the training system needs to be complex as opposed to the training system's execution.
rikter
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 20:45:43
September 24 2012 20:40 GMT
#245
On September 25 2012 05:12 MstrJinbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.


You seem to contradict yourself especially with:

On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
A proper system has a lot of content in it ... Besides, for a newb all that is overload.


The point of a learning system, is to avoid that overload. You are talking about creating a giant database of information? The jakatak system is for new people.


To be fair, I think he is saying the research and presentation of the training system needs to be complex as opposed to the training system's execution.


Correct. A piece at a time its really not a big deal, but to be able to give someone a guide that covered every thing from day one until the end would wind up being a lot. I think if you opened a guide, saw walls of text and pictures, and this guy claiming that youre gonna have 9+ builds under your belt....well, it could seem overwhelming. The system itself is simple to execute, but presenting all the facets on day[1] is a huge undertaking. You would want 3,4,5 lesson plans for each build order, each one doing the same build but emphasizing a different aspect, or using the units differently, so that even within the confines of the build order there are still levels. Again, multiply this out by 3 builds per matchup (1,2,3 base at least) and thats a lot more work for the would be teacher. 3MU x 3Build/MU x5L/Build = 45 lessons. And this is an overly simplified version, because as it stands I have 2 builds per base level (up to 3) per matchup, so thats 90 lessons. And this is just for one race!

As a student, you would only ever be adding little bits at a time, trending towards mastery, so its not overwhelming. But 90 lessons+ miscellaneous topic lessons +game theory concepts means the sum of the source material is literally a book. I cant write that book now just because I haven't finished working out all the lessons myself, and if I did write it it would be such a huge investment of time that I couldnt just give it away. And Wings of Liberty is not going to be relevant for long anyways, so by the time I did all of this the game would basically be dead since HotS will be out soon.
No one wants a box of shit, even if it is for Christmas.
SecondHand
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States329 Posts
September 25 2012 02:44 GMT
#246
I think your awesome man, this is really admirable. Keep up the good work :D

People like you are what makes TL and eSports pretty damn amazing.
Ladder more, win less
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
September 25 2012 02:50 GMT
#247
On September 25 2012 11:44 ILuMiNaTe wrote:
I think your awesome man, this is really admirable. Keep up the good work :D

People like you are what makes TL and eSports pretty damn amazing.


Thanks so much man. Really appreciate it :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Sickan
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden19 Posts
September 25 2012 09:31 GMT
#248
Is there any way to donate to you? I really appreciate the work you've done with TheLevels and TheCore!
CeRipH
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom23 Posts
September 25 2012 09:54 GMT
#249
Hi TheJakaTaK, just wanted to say I really think you're doing a great job. I work as a software developer and have always thought about doing something like you (quitting and working on my own projects related to starcraft). It's just hard to have new ideas in what is a pretty fast growing community, so I really respect what you've achieved so far.
"Does the brain control you or are you controlling the brain? I don't know if I'm in charge of mine." - Karl Pilkington (a man with a head like a f*cking orange)
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
September 25 2012 15:10 GMT
#250
@Sickan

The donate link is in the info section of the twitch page. I would really appreciate anything that you could contribute.

@CeRipH
Thanks man. I appreciate the support!
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Salomonster
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden67 Posts
September 25 2012 17:52 GMT
#251
I have followed this thread for some time and been meaning to post but there has just been so many things to say and I haven't had enough time to formulate what I want to say. English isn't my native language so this might be quite a collection of bad grammar, misplaced punctuations and poorly phrased sentences.

@ JaK
I did not want to make a “[G] – How to use: [G] the Levels” thread. Unfortunately this turned out to be really long and could possibly have been a thread on its own, but if I would have done that I would have needed your approval to post it, and I don't really like to ask for peoples approval... Instead I chose to litter your thread with the longest post in TL's history. I hope that you agree with my reasonings to some extent and that the fine for littering isn't that bad.

Long story made short: I think lots of people have misconceptions about learning and about how to use the levels and why it is awesome. There's a lot of (in my opinion) bullshitting going on in this thread and I cant understand why people put so much time into proving that something they don't want to try is bad instead of just letting the people willing to try decide for themselves.
Thanks for all the great work you put in to this, if used correctly this is a great resource for the community of e-sports. Now to action:


The Levels:

+ Show Spoiler +
TL has lots and lots of guides on how to improve in different ways in sc2, most of them tells you what someone think you should focus on first, what's important and what to prioritize. What... Not HOW, and HOW is key. Not many guides gives you tools on HOW to actually learn a specific task better. The Levels offers this!
To analyze your game play and to find out what you need to improve is actually the easiest part. And thankfully if you need help with that, there are excellent guides for this on TL, or you can just ask for help in a [H]-thread.
To find out how you fix them flaws is the real task. Methodology is one of the most important aspects of learning, but is unfortunately often forgotten.

I've been planning for making a guide on HOW to improve for a long time, offering various methods for people to try out. The Levels might save me the effort since I don't have enough time right now to make a guide that is good enough anyways.
I loved to find lots of the methods I've been using for years put on paper in a way that isn't to hard to grasp. I guess the spreadsheet could be hard to understand for someone new to sc2, but I think the video explains it good enough to get started.
It's great to see that we have such a similar background and that might be a big reason for our methods being so similar.


Following might be provoking and could possibly be seen as me bragging about my past, (which are none to brag about), so if you are afraid you are going to waste your time on reading about some egocentric moron, please feel free to skip the next part.


+ Show Spoiler +
I was a pretty high level soccer player in my youth but quit due to lack of motivation and decided to focus on my music carrier instead. I worked as a musician for about 10 years and during that time I was also teaching music both individually and in small groups. After my music carrier I learned the carpenter trade and worked in construction for 6 years. Injuries made me change trades again and right now I'm studying Construction Design and Building Instruction Modeling. I am not a SC2 pro by any means, tbh I'm not even a decent player. However I have been a professional teacher and I am a pro learner. I have learned more trades than most people learn during a lifetime, I have learned how to play 5 musical instruments on a professional level (counting the numerous percussion instruments I play as one). Fact is I know what buttons to push to get things to stick to my brain and I know what to avoid. As I said I do not mean to brag about my accomplishments in life, because there are none to brag about. However people on the Internet tend to question the size of other peoples e-penis. This is mine, its not big, its just simply my standpoint from which I approach learning and improving in SC2.



This is mainly aimed at new players so if something feels too basic for you, just skip it. One thing to keep in mind when reading this is the following:

Nobody ever told you that when you start using the levels you have to forget everything you know about starcraft 2. Some people act like someone said that. No one did. If you come to this place with some experience that is awesome, and something you should embrace. There is no reason to have your entire army eat a nuke for breakfast when you see it coming, just because “someone said I couldn't micro!” However the levels will sometimes ask you to focus less on some things that you are used to do and might be really good at, to give your brain enough breathing room to perform another task in the best possible way.
If you think something in this post is bullshit, then please scroll back up here and read this again. If you still think it's bullshit then please call me out for sulking this thread.




Learning

+ Show Spoiler +
Lets say that you want to learn how to juggle. You went to a show and saw this guy juggling with 1 ball 1 apple, 1banana, 1 torch, 1 knife, 1 chainsaw and 1 penguin while riding a unicycle, and now you are desperate to learn how to do that!
So where do you start? Do you just pick up all the stuff and give it a go? No?
Well, everything is pretty much guarantied to end up on the floor right next to your left arm and right thumb... where to start then? Well it would depend on the experience you have. Maybe you tried something easier before? But if you never tried juggling, starting with two balls would probably be a good idea. Hell, if you have no experience with any type of ball, why not start with one. Throwing a ball from one hand to another can actually be quite a challenge for some people.

So why pick a ball and not a banana or a penguin? Or even a chainsaw?!?! well, the chainsaw is pretty obvious. The ball is by far the easiest object both to throw and to catch due to its shape, size, weight and it's center of gravity.
To make things simple, lets say we already know how to juggle with 3 balls, so how do we move on? Well to be honest we have options. We either ad, or change. We don't do both. It is not recommended to ad one chainsaw. You either ad one ball, or change the balls to other objects. We could change one ball to a banana, but that would make one object feel a lot different from the two others, so it would actually be easier to swap around to 3 bananas, and when we are comfortable with those we can start mixing in the balls.

Think of it like this:

[image loading]

X represents the number of things you ad
Y represents the of different items you can use

(for those who wants to say that this actually has 3 dimensions you are absolutely correct, but we are gonna keep it simple).

the human brain is pretty much monotone, meaning it can only handle one thing at a time. (not entirely true, but close enough for this purpose), therefore YOU DO NOT WANT TO EXPAND YOUR SUCCESSION DIAGONALY!
You either go one step to the right followed by one step up or vice versa, otherwise your brain will not function at full capacity. You do not have to aim at getting as far diagonally as possible but maybe that feels more fun to you so it is totally OK to do so. Its just as good (or even better)to go all out X until you get your 7 balls rollin. Than when you wanna swap items you just go back to 3 items and start swapping, this way juggling with three items will feel like a breeze compared to seven, so your brain will have lots of focus leftover to spend on adjusting to the new items. Now keep going until you hit 7 of the item you chose to practice then start over again until you got used to them all.

Now think of it like this:
The ball is your zergling, the apple are your roach, the banana are your mutas and the chainsaw are your infestors. Think of the unicycle as your strategy/game plan and the ground underneath you as your opponent. The ground might change and it's all beyond your control, whether its uphill, downhill, flat, slippery or hard as a rock you still have to keep riding your bike and you are not allowed to drop anything.
As a reference to learning through one base play and build orders, mind this: If your opponent throws you off your unicycle, you either fall to the ground with an airborne chainsaw somewhere close, or you land on your feet still juggling.

Oh yeah. You also need to learn how to ride that bike, are you going to do that with or without them chainsaws?


Low level players read this:


+ Show Spoiler +
For a low level player, or someone that is new to sc2, (or someone that have changed their hotkeys) this is a great way to start improving. The fact is that level one can take you really far. I know the levels say that people below plat should start at level 1, plat should start with level 2 and diamond should start with level 3. I somewhat disagree with that. I think everyone should start on level 1. If you have no problems with preforming the tasks on level 1, then you'll run through it in a couple of hours and now you actually know that you can spend your money before you implement micro.


Level 1.

+ Show Spoiler +
I just swapped to using the Core so starting at 1.0 was the obvious choice for me. I play zerg on the EU ladder and my mmr is generally going up and down a little making me play vs anything from mid masters to low diamond. Fortunately I have a smurf account that I have used for off-raceing as terran every now and then. Unfortunately it's also around diamond mmr.
I thought this would be an issue but to my surprise it was not. Ofc. I have lost games, lots of games, but I actually also win games. And not just a few, I haven't made any counting but about 50% give or take a little. Now I am still at 1.2, and I win about 50%. I am doing the 1.2 step poorly, I manage to keep my energy low enough, spend my money good enough and avoid blocks all at the same time about 10-20% of the time, I am using minimal micro during battles and still I am winning about 50% of the time vs diamond and platinum players. Now the winning isn't at all important, but for me this shows that the average plat/diamond player have some really big flaws in the most rudimentary skills of playing sc2.

When watching replays from my games I often notice that I have a lot more stuff than my opponent, I have seen my unupgraded ling/roach army die to an army half the size of mine lots of times. For some this might not seem satisfying at all, but for me it only shows the potential of the work I'm putting in. Imagine if I would have had an army twice the size of my opponents, with a good army composition, with upgrades, and would have used good micro. I would obviously have crushed him. (Ofc if I would have more tech, my army would be a little smaller, but I wouldn't have upgrades that cost more than half my army.)
So, we are back to the juggler again. When I know how to juggle with all 7 balls, lets start working on the quality of my army!
Go through the rounds of level one and suddenly you have access to all the units and upgrades you need to get that good army composition WHILE having strong macro to support it. You could probably A-move to win already, but now lets get to the micro.




High level players read this:

+ Show Spoiler +
So, you have gone through level 1. (if you have done this and been honest to yourself, I will be very surprised if you are not at least in platinum or above by now). What now then? Well 2.1 is the answer. Now this is where the fun begins, this is where strategy, tactics and even build orders can be implemented in the game. I know people have mentioned that level 2 and 3 do not have that good documentation about how to execute level 2 and 3. I agree. But. Think about this: When you can execute level 3 at its fullest potential to perfection, you will be a GM ranked player and you might even be out there challenging famous people for big titles. If the levels was stated as “the true guide to become a pro” it would not have been a 1 page long document. Seriously it would not.
This is simply a tool to help your brain learn new stuff.
At level 2 and 3 you have to start using your own brain. JaK held your hand through level 1and now its time to let go.



Level 2
+ Show Spoiler +
To start the first obvious things too try out is to try to move units around wile keeping up the macro up and make sure you don't loose track of your army or scouting probe or whatever you choose to move around. The goal of this is just to get used to the idea of doing other things while macroing. If you never done this before it will be hard at first, and if you have been scouting while doing a FFE for 2 years it will be a walk in the park. We all start from different points. After this, think of what you want to do with your units. Micro needs a purpose. Don't micro your units if you don't have a goal to achieve with your micro. e.g. I micro to increase my dps, I micro to try to stay alive. Etc. If you are not sure what to do, just try stuff: I do “X” to se what happens. That is actually a purpose. But there is a big difference in just randomly microing stuff and actually doing stuff to se what happens.

Every round in level 2 has tons of things to be explored. Every unit can be microed to some extent. Find out what you can do with every unit on every round. This does not mean that you have to do all the work yourself. Look at pro games, check guides on forums and video guides on the tube find it all and try it out.
When you start microing your macro will start failing, its just the way things work. Luckily you have the benchmarks in the levels to make sure you are not messing up your macro. If you start failing a lot, just go back a little in difficulty and micro a little less but don't go all the way back to level one and stop microing totally, you need to push yourself outside your comfort zone. Check your replays to see when you fail, check what you are doing when u fail. Where is your camera, where are you looking? The benchmarks in the levels are great tools for finding out whats wrong, SQ is a really smart and simple way to check if you are spending your cash. I would suggest to complement this with SC2Gears, which is an awesome tool for finding flaws in your macro.
The hard thing with level 2 is knowing when to move on to the next step, sure you have the benchmarks but they only judge your macro. This is because we micro “on top” of our macro. Meaning our macro is constant and we micro with whatever capacity our brain has left over. Agin, the benchmarks are there to make sure we don't fuck up the rudimentary stuff with the icing on the cake.

Why no benchmarks for micro? Well honestly that is freaking hard to do: I blinked 44 times this game! Is that better than 33!? well not necessarily. Its totally up to you to decide what goals you have with your micro. Move on when you feel like you have explored the content of the tier you are working on, there is nothing stopping you if you one day realize that: Hey, my burrow micro is not on par, just go back to 2.1 and work it out!

It is at this point using strategy and build orders can help you. Imagine this:
You are a protoss player and just started working on 2.2. You feel like experimenting with blink micro, but so far you just haven't been able to make any good use of it. You have seen some blink guides and videos and understand the basic of the mechanics, it just don't seem to be efficient when you try it out. Find a build or strategy that someone uses with great success. Try it out a little and compare the difference with what you have been doing before. Maybe you will find out stuff about this type of micro that you didn't know.
“Hmm it seems like a blink timing at 22mins isn't nearly as good as one at 11min”.
“People going blink seem to favor +1 and +2 attack before armor or shields I wonder why, I have to try this out”.
Look what other people do and try it out, and try to understand why it is good or bad, some things might even be good sometimes and bad other times.
Since the level of skill required to move on is vague and it's defined by you who might not even know what good micro is. Make sure to criticize your play. Play against a friend, do that mc style 7gate you just implemented and play 10 games. He will defend it better and better every time since he knows what is coming. Is there any way you can extend the life of your units, when do you go for the kill, when do you pull back for reinforcements, where do you attack, how do you position your units, what hot keys do you use. Is there any way to abuse the units he have with the units you have.
If you are not sure if you can improve or how to improve, make a help thread on the forum with some replays ask people to give you advice on your MICRO. Now people usually are not good readers, so some people will tell you to macro better. Ignore them, you already know if your macro was bad on that replay or not since you already have the tools to find that out. Hopefully (and most likely) someone knows how to read and can give you some good advice. (sorry for the sour undertone, but people freakin suck at reading =P ).



Level 3

+ Show Spoiler +
Level 3 is basically level 2 on steroids, this is still far beyond my skill of game play. I could do some strategic things that requires some multitasking, but to be honest with my self I probably can't preform many of them without fucking up level 1 or 2.
Depending on what level requirement you set for yourself in level 2 you can be at a pretty low level (in terms of ladder ranking) or a very high level when you get to this point.
Think of multitasking like this: how rough can the ground be when you are on that unicycle? How much information can your brain handle before the foundations start to shake.

For people who have a hard time finding a way to start working on this level:
take your exercises from level 2 and think about how to use them at several places at once, or how to perform several of them at the same time.

Can you do a 2 pronged attack while using burrow micro on both fronts? Can you nydus his main base at the same time? Are you still macroing?

Can you do storm drops at the same time as you are controlling your protoss death ball using all the spells and abilities that are available for you?

Can you defend vs drops while setting up your army positioning and preparing a flank for his army?

Multitasking isn't only about what you can achieve with great multitasking. It's also about understanding what your opponent can achieve, what are strategically beneficial with multitasking?

“shit he is dropping my main, GOTTA DEFEND!!”

is quite different from: “he is dropping my main, what is he trying to achieve with that? Is he dropping my third too? Is he moving his main army? Are there hellions or banshees inbound somewhere?
Multitasking is often linked to strategy.


I hope this can help people getting started with the levels and understand why it is a good method. The levels is actually not about starcraft at all. You can implement this type of methodology to anything you do, whether its sports, school, playing music or performing well at work.
To learn stuff, make it as simple for your brain as you possibly can, because unfortunately its not smart enough to do it for you.


twitch.tv/salomonster
TeaTeaTea
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada11 Posts
September 25 2012 18:08 GMT
#252
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.


There is absolutely no excuse to get supply blocked for the sake of microing your army. I feel like you're trying to console yourself by making excuses for your own macro deficiencies. If a lower league level player was to read what you wrote, he or she would think that supply blocks are an acceptable form of gameplay. Its not!
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
September 25 2012 18:45 GMT
#253
I know I already told you this, but seriously Salomonster, Thank you so much for sharing. :D

@teateatea
agreed :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
September 26 2012 04:48 GMT
#254
Is there a reason why most of the positive posts here are from people with 1-10 posts?
seanious
Profile Joined June 2012
2 Posts
September 26 2012 05:30 GMT
#255
Who knows, maybe he has fans and followers who are coming here to defend him from outside of this forum/clique of people?
shogeki
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada75 Posts
September 26 2012 05:36 GMT
#256
On September 26 2012 13:48 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Is there a reason why most of the positive posts here are from people with 1-10 posts?


Perhaps because newer people might benefit the most from a system designed to learn to play Starcraft? Just a hunch.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 12:05:38
September 26 2012 12:04 GMT
#257
On September 26 2012 03:08 TeaTeaTea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.


There is absolutely no excuse to get supply blocked for the sake of microing your army. I feel like you're trying to console yourself by making excuses for your own macro deficiencies. If a lower league level player was to read what you wrote, he or she would think that supply blocks are an acceptable form of gameplay. Its not!

Lol are you serious?
Once youve gotten to a decent lvl of macro, microing your army is hugely important. Big battles can be sole game deciders, one supply block isnt nearly as important. If you watch stephanos games, he actually gets supply blocked pretty often but his army control wins him so many games.
I agree that a newbie should start out focusing on macro but what youre saying is complete nonsense. Besides, if youre having a fight youre probably gonna lose supply anyways.
If you tell a newbie that supply blocks are completely utterly unacceptable youre just gonna frustrate him, cause even pros get supply blocked sometimes
beep boop
rikter
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
September 26 2012 12:05 GMT
#258
On September 26 2012 03:08 TeaTeaTea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:08 rikter wrote:
On September 25 2012 03:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
@rikter
Why don't you make your own TL post about your learning method? It seems pretty mapped out. Post it up and see what people think of it. I'm being genuine, not sarcastic. I think you should do it.

@Hylirion
I definitely need to work on my data presentation. For TheLevels and TheCore, we're still working things out and improving them. There will be a "TheCore" and "TheLevels" post on TL in the future that is focused on presenting the tools in the best way possible, but right now I have my hands full with the testing and tweaking stage. Great advice though. I definitely agree. Thanks :D

On September 24 2012 14:00 Islaac wrote:
I'm so impressed by your dedication JaKaTaK, huge wraps from me.

I'm at work right now but I'm very interested to have a look.

At what point are you planning to add micro?

Also as an aside on the 'are you qualified' thing, I actually think you are perfectly qualified. I would rather have an experienced teacher teach my children maths than I would a professor of mathematics who has never taught primary school kids.

edit: It took you 10 days to go from 1.1 to 1.7, but presumably a whole season to go from 1.0 to 1.1 - room for adjustment of your levels perhaps?


Starcraft requires at all times, some micro and some macro. Saying 0 micro was an exaggeration, and I appologize for it. The first level is a complete focus on macro, whenever I had the opportunity to micro, I ignored it in favor of macroing better. I did not worry about unit composition, or scouting or strategy. I did not try to kite or arrange my army before battle. I just made stuff and threw it at my opponent.

Micro begins on the 2nd level (2.1) which for protoss is after the last round of the first level (1.8). The requirements are the same, but this time I will focus as much on micro as possible. I will attempt to get the most out of each unit and every battle. Definitely looking forward to it.

So the way I worded that all was not very accurate. I again apologize and reword.

At the beginning of the last season I had 3 accounts (one for each race) in the bronze league.
By playing Level 1.1 on all of them I was promoted into the Gold league mid season.
I made it as far as 1.4(terran) 1.2(zerg) and 1.3(protoss) as the season ended.
A couple of days into the season I had the opportunity to start playing HotS beta, so I did.
I focused only on protoss and got to platinum league in 10 days. This is the log of my progress:

Quest of a JaK

I was on level 1.7 when I was promoted and have moved on to 1.8 which I will be playing today :D

Hope that clears somethings up.





Sometimes it is more important to pay attention to your army, even at the expense of making depots and such. Sometimes you let the units die because because its more important to be doing something in your base. Where do you teach this concept in the levels? I still don't see any kind of guide for how you are supposed to be microing units, a guide for how you should scout, how you determine which units to build, etc. Your method is a weird combination of arbitrary structure and restrictions where you dont need them, and a complete lack of structure where you do.

A complete guide on my system, just for the terran race, would be a huge undertaking. Its not a big deal to acquire the knowledge a bit at a time, but to put it all down in one post...its at least 9 builds, plus a few deviations on each one. So right there is 9 guides worth of material alone. Just the 1-1-1 build is a huge guide because there are lots of different ways to tweak a 1-1-1, and there are different ways to attack with it, depending on what your opponent dose. Ive already written an OP about Terran hotkey setups, this would be included too since I think T plays best with custom keys.

A proper system has a lot of content in it, much more than a spreadsheet with a couple lines of descriptive text here and there. So while I am willing to generate content on a case by case basis, I'm not able to create what is basically a small encyclopedia of knowledge, especially since we have liquipedia. Besides, for a newb all that is overload.

Simple is best, simplest way to do it my way is go to liquipedia and pick out a 1 base and start playing it. Once you have some experience with it, it will be easier to focus on the different ways opponents respond, and you will be more capable of asking good questions.

At some point, you just have to jump in and start playing (sooner the better), and a poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.


There is absolutely no excuse to get supply blocked for the sake of microing your army. I feel like you're trying to console yourself by making excuses for your own macro deficiencies. If a lower league level player was to read what you wrote, he or she would think that supply blocks are an acceptable form of gameplay. Its not!


Dude are you gonna lose 60 marines or whatever in one shot because instead of splitting and fighting you were back building depots or whatever? Seriously, think before you post. There is NEVER a situation where saving what you have is more important? Its not something you try to do, but sometimes it happens (even to pros). Secondly, if a lower league player read that I would think it would clue them into the decision making process going on, and encourage them because no one does this perfectly, even the best. No one ever said prioritze micro over supply blocks, I said sometimes you make a choice and it isnt always supply.

Also, nice ad hominem attack. Guy says that occasionally you need to prioritize differently, asks where in the levels you actually learn how to evaluate such, so I must be trying to make myself feEl better? Get real. I feel fine because Im winning, and constantly rising.

This system is a word document with a whack list of when to build units, and little else. Now people are tripping over themselves to give $ for something that looks like it was created in half an hour? Strange days.

You guys are seriously tripping over yourselves to send money for a system whose only content is build this unit?
No one wants a box of shit, even if it is for Christmas.
Gravve
Profile Joined September 2012
United States3 Posts
September 26 2012 12:18 GMT
#259
Rikter, I think you're too experienced to understand the concept of the system. This system teaches you the importance of the macro mechanics, and once you understand that, build orders look completely different and you actually understand why they work, instead of just copypasta'ing and stumbling through it for ages until you finally understand that your macro is more important than what supply you build a gateway or cyber core, or whatever.

In my personal opinion, I think you should take a step back. You're seriously taking this far too personally, and it's starting to show in your posts, man.

If the system helps someone, and they want to donate to the dude that helped them, it's no skin off your back. Take a breather from this post, go pwn some people in ladder! You'll probably feel better for it.
For truth to exist, each person must accept it as a universal constant. This is impossible.
rikter
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 12:55:42
September 26 2012 12:53 GMT
#260
On September 26 2012 21:18 Gravve wrote:
Rikter, I think you're too experienced to understand the concept of the system. This system teaches you the importance of the macro mechanics, and once you understand that, build orders look completely different and you actually understand why they work, instead of just copypasta'ing and stumbling through it for ages until you finally understand that your macro is more important than what supply you build a gateway or cyber core, or whatever.

In my personal opinion, I think you should take a step back. You're seriously taking this far too personally, and it's starting to show in your posts, man.

If the system helps someone, and they want to donate to the dude that helped them, it's no skin off your back. Take a breather from this post, go pwn some people in ladder! You'll probably feel better for it.


Its against the forum rules to be making ad hominem attacks. Dude had enough stuff in his post that its not obvious, but he snuck it in there, for whatever reason, in a thread completely devoid of personal attacks up until this point. I thought it was a pretty low key reply to an obvious cheap shot. Standard.


You dont think my experience maybe lets me understand the actual concept of this system better than you? Also, that defeatist attitude is one of the things I would try and remove straight away. Basic build orders really arent too hard. They are easier, actually, since you have established benchmarks for what is DEFINITELY possible. The build order is your control, something you can check against to definitely measure progress. You can do the levels, and then come back and learn build orders probably pretty quickly. So the levels must work, right? Well, the build orders were never actually hard in the first place, just maybe your attitude has changed a bit. Its kinda like Dumbo and his magic feather. Bro, you can already fly, you don't need this, theres a faster way.

To repeat from an earlier post "If you take a bunch of cancer patients and give them sugar pills, some of them will get better. It doesn't mean the sugar pills made them better, or that you have some innovative new way of treating cancer. Even a flawed, misguided method will work for at least SOME people."


You are right in that its no skin off my back, but I really can't stand the spread of questionable advice and systems, especially when the target audience is people who by definition can't properly evaluate the product, and so I make these posts in the hopes that the OP's might consider some of what I have to say, and maybe do something really good.
No one wants a box of shit, even if it is for Christmas.
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