[G] TvP 2 Rax - Page 3

On May 31 2012 22:27 vBr wrote:
Myself I call this build "Korean 2 rax" to not confuse it with a standard gasless 2 rax build.

This is a nice build to have in your arsenal, but a warning finger to most players: This build requires a certain amount of control. You can not just 1a your units in and expect results unless your opponent went for a specifically greedy build. It is a build that is generally employed by players such as MKP and Polt because they have the control required to deal the damage required and then to proceed into a macro game. This is the reason why you see few foreigners doing it (and why I call it korean 2 rax)

Day9 did a daily on this build and showcased a game where the terran player straight out won against White-Ra in a dominating fashion. It was a really poor replay to showcase, because White-Ra did everything wrong there. In fact, this build very rarely ends the game, unless the protoss player simply leaves because you managed to kill his expand, not realising that you are still on one base.

In my humble experience (1200 highmaster terran EU), you will only deal game-winning damage if the opponent did something greedy, such as not throwing down the standard three gateways after nexus or not chronoboosting the warpgate research at least 3 times. Unfortunatly, this is not the case most of the time. Generally, when I deploy this build, the protoss retreats up his ramp and lets me hammer away at the shield on the nexus until his warpgate research finishes (6:30~). Then he proceeds to go down and chase me away.

Nevertheless, despite all this, let me emphasize that this is not a bad build. You will not kill the nexus most of the time, but you will create a situation where you can possibly dictate the pace of the game. The protoss player will, after chasing you away, be forced to keep producing units (unless this is shakuras, where I don't recommend doing this build unless you followup with an all in, more on that in a second) which is not something a protoss player generally want. If you are unfamiliar with the workings of current PvT, the protoss player wants to get away with as few units as possible until he achieves his tech goal - generally colossus or templars. By doing a build such as this one, his gameplan is likely to change and you will continuely be able to threaten his front, forcing him to produce more units than he would really prefer.

This should be your mindset. Do not try to end the game and mindlessly throw away the units you have because then you are truly behind. Instead, you are to force units out of him and trade favourly until your medivacs are out when you can, hopefully, crush him.

An all-in that I often do is to throw up a second gas semi-early and skip a marauder for a really early factory (5 min~) and tech to 8 min medivacs. If you traded favourably at the front, the addition of 8 min medivacs along with stim instead of combatshield will definitely end the game in your favour.

On June 01 2012 09:31 Dingobloo wrote:
2rax is still good, but it's not very well suited to the current map pool, all the current maps are made to support FFE in PvZ, so are generally very closed, additionally most of them have reasonably long rush distances.

Still something you should learn, but not really standard at the moment. Great guide, good to see you're using anchors instead of spoiler tags to break up the guide!

On June 02 2012 05:44 Fencer710 wrote:
Very nice guide. You might want to include a link to the Day9 Daily VOD on 2 Barracks TvP.

On June 01 2012 09:43 Complete wrote:
This build is actually really really REALLY good, speaking from a protoss point of view who has studied 1g FE's extensively. Very few 1g FE variations can hold a non-proxied, quick, properly executed 2rax, and that's only if the 1g FE BO is executed perfectly. Anybody saying different (hint, people in this thread) hasn't done the actual math. Most 2raxes aren't executed effectively and quick enough and that's why they seem so easily defeatable sometimes.

Seconds matter with this build though, so I recommend practicing the BO a lot and knowing exactly what you're doing/when you're pushing out/placing bulidings close to the ramp. Always bring an scv or 2 for bunkers just in case.

I can't imagine any 1g FE can hold this build with 1 rax proxied if unscouted/the BO is perfectly executed.

On June 02 2012 06:01 tuestresfat wrote:

so the majority of the 1gate FE's you studied extensively can't hold the most standard reactor-techlab that has been around for months? Where are you getting these build orders, battle.net forums?

most 2raxes are executed incorrectly and inefficiently? damn, those pros better practice harder. executing a build order up to mid 30 supply must be so hard.

I'm sorry to hear you have trouble executing a 1gate FE up to to the 6min mark despite the fact that you will be doing it every single game. That's really unfortunate, but I'm sure it's the build's fault not yours.

On June 01 2012 09:43 Complete wrote:
This build is actually really really REALLY good, speaking from a protoss point of view who has studied 1g FE's extensively. Very few 1g FE variations can hold a non-proxied, quick, properly executed 2rax, and that's only if the 1g FE BO is executed perfectly. Anybody saying different (hint, people in this thread) hasn't done the actual math. Most 2raxes aren't executed effectively and quick enough and that's why they seem so easily defeatable sometimes.

Seconds matter with this build though, so I recommend practicing the BO a lot and knowing exactly what you're doing/when you're pushing out/placing bulidings close to the ramp. Always bring an scv or 2 for bunkers just in case.

I can't imagine any 1g FE can hold this build with 1 rax proxied if unscouted/the BO is perfectly executed.

On June 02 2012 06:32 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:


Actually, the newer variant is different from the old Polt version of 2rax in a couple ways. This one has the 2nd rax before orbital, whereas Polt's has orbital and then 2nd rax, which gets your marauder and thus, your push, out a lot faster. This usually lets me hit well before warpgate is done. Of course, bringing an scv or two for a bunker is another key element - while earlier, it still isn't enough time alone to kill the nexus - it is, however, time enough to put up a bunker to prevent them from being able to come down and take out your push. The other difference is the quick reactor starport follow up (with all rax techlab upgrades) that makes for a deadly follow up - this delays the expansion, but often finishes the job (see the Day9 Daily).

This has been my main TvP opening for awhile now, and it is damn effective against 1g fe. I played 13 straight games against my protoss friend who wanted to practice his 1g fe defense against 2rax, and even though he was high master (top 8) and I was low master, I won 9 of the 13 games (3 of them were when I was trying the Polt timing instead of the MKP timing).

On June 02 2012 06:08 McTeazy wrote:
I agree with you if the protoss isn't playing a gateway pressure style (a la parting). If they are playing that style and hold this without economic damage, you are SO boned as his 2 base production will be able to a move up your ramp more likely than not.

On June 02 2012 07:39 vBr wrote:



Every 2 rax hits before warpgate is done, its fine. Let him hammer at the nexus, let it drop some shield, maybe half its health. Then go down and clean up.

Bringing scvs are good but bunker will NOT (repeat: NOT) finish intime. Bunker will be at most 50% done when your first warpin has happened.

On June 02 2012 07:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:


The protoss won't have enough units with just one warp in. The usual scenario is pre-warpin they have 3 units, usually a zealot, stalker, and sentry. Assuming they have 4 gates, by the time warpin finishes they'll probably have 2 zealots, 1 sentry, and 4 stalkers (if they didn't have a sentry at the start, you can push inside main and kill some units/pressure probes and cause general havoc/damage). At that point, terran usually has at least 3 marauders and 8-9 marines, which is easily enough to beat that. So, protoss has to wait longer, and by that point the bunker is done.

[Edit] A good 2rax push should also take advantage of positioning in the natural, usually, both bunker and units would be placed in a good concave around the base of the ramp to take advantage of the superior positioning/the fact that protoss is being forced to come out to the terran.