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lol? How is this bad advice?
I recommend drone scouting, but at the time the guide was written, the standard in pro play was not to drone scout. I simply say it's up to you whether you want to drone scout or not, and that there is no right or wrong on it.
And scouting at 10 supply is WAY too early. No one drone scouts at 10.
Please, do not be so rude, you can drone scout at 13 to see a 2 rax in time before your pool pops to know to make lings or drones, and you don't have to drone scout to figure out someone is doing a 2 rax, it should be obvious when a 2 rax hits before your pool is done.
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Thanks so much for your guides. I've especially appreciated the ZvP one.
In your "Playing the Midgame: Muta" section you mention:
quickly box over my banelings to make sure they hit his marines instead of tanks
What does this mean? Just selecting a group and directing them past the tanks and then a-moving?
I'm hoping you find the time to clean this one up and give it the polish you have in your ZvP guide. Thanks again!
ps. when's the ZvZ guide going to be posted? 
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^ Thanks, I think... The guide is polished, let me know if you think anything else is unpolished.
I think the baneling advice is pretty clear. You box over them, you know, like you hit and hold left click, and then pull it, you create a box? So a-move or move-command your ling/bane, then quickly create that green box over your baneling as accurately as you can (it's not really improtant that it's even that accurate), and then move command the banes past his marines. No need to a-move them, they'll detonate on their own as marines shoot at them or tanks hit them. You can also right click them all onto a marine in a big pack of marines, or just a-move that box of banes once you are past the tanks. Personally, what I do, box over, grab the banes right before they all are about to splash into a tank or marauders, and then I move command or right click them (depending on accuracy and in-game factors i suppose) onto or towards the biggest clump of marines I see. Then, I'll create another box over half those banelings, and split them, if the terran is splitting.
But yes, you got it. box over banes, make sure they dont blow up on tanks.
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Huh, interesting. I've just been keeping my lings and banes on different hotkeys, a-moving my zerglings and moving my banelings into the densest clump of marines I can find. (Or, vs Marine-Marauder, wrapping my zerglings around the bioball so it can't run away and just killing everything with banes)
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In my humble opinion, the best way to micro lings and banes it to put them all in your main group while having an other group for banes only. This way you can a-move everything at once, but it's still very easy to select and move command the banes behind clumps of bio in the heat of the battle.
You can add banes to your second group when you morph them (Stephano style, ctrl+click on eggs in the group selection).
I do the same with my infestors usually, this way I am sure they aren't lagging behind my army but I can't still quickly cast and fall back to protect them.
So in zvt my hotkeys in mid-game looks like :
1 - main army (lings-roach-infesters-banes)
2 - mutas
3 - banes
4 - infestors
Hope this help.
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Huh, interesting. I've just been keeping my lings and banes on different hotkeys, a-moving my zerglings and moving my banelings into the densest clump of marines I can find. (Or, vs Marine-Marauder, wrapping my zerglings around the bioball so it can't run away and just killing everything with banes)
That's more than fine too. Just make sure that you micro your banes in some way so they don't just a-move into everything.
In my humble opinion, the best way to micro lings and banes it to put them all in your main group while having an other group for banes only. This way you can a-move everything at once, but it's still very easy to select and move command the banes behind clumps of bio in the heat of the battle.
You can add banes to your second group when you morph them (Stephano style, ctrl+click on eggs in the group selection).
I do that in the early game, before infestors pop out, actually. I don't ever keep infestors with my main army though.
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I never thought of keeping lings and banes on the same hotkey! I'm really paranoid about a-moving banes: I even move-command them across the map. Is this bad?
Also, a bit off-topic, but thanks to your guide on 6 pool I was able to execute Belial's Floral Arrangement of Death today to destroy a 6-pool after going 15 hatch! Thank you for all the wisdom you bring to the community!
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^ Post the rep in my zvz 6 pool thread! There's not enough examples in there from people who've used the guide!
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It's pretty low-level, but I've posted it anyway. If you deem my execution too sloppy to be worth learning from, which it almost certainly is, I will not be offended
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With regards to the 6 queen opener against a 1 rax expo into hellions, how can I minimize damage if the terran decides to derp into my main and roast drones?
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IDK if anyone else mentioned this, but if you continue to get ranged upgrades you can use infested terrans to great effect vs mech (fungal doesn't really come into play vs mech that much so might use the energy for something).
I've managed to be extremely roach-light when droning my 4th because 5+ infestors (which you should have by that time IMO) surrounding a mech army with ITs helps a lot more than most people think.
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My personal experience, in dealing with mech, going for infestors with neural is so good! Together with Tunneling claw roaches! I just make sure to engage at the middle of the map. The more closer the mech army is to your base, the more it is difficult.
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With regards to the 6 queen opener against a 1 rax expo into hellions, how can I minimize damage if the terran decides to derp into my main and roast drones?
I actually make about 20 lings at 60+ supply, and star the 2xEvo then too (and when they are done, start 2 spores). I also sometimes make a spine in my natural, and another at my third, at this same time. Don't keep doing the same build if terran keeps roasting drones. i was finding I was having trouble with this too so I had to make some drastic changes. 20 lings at 60+ really goes a long way. If you don't have to pull drones or lose any, you can get those ultras out soooo fast...
IDK if anyone else mentioned this, but if you continue to get ranged upgrades you can use infested terrans to great effect vs mech (fungal doesn't really come into play vs mech that much so might use the energy for something).
I've managed to be extremely roach-light when droning my 4th because 5+ infestors (which you should have by that time IMO) surrounding a mech army with ITs helps a lot more than most people think.
I usually get +3 missile in all 3 match-ups now after I've gotten 3/3.
IT is pretty awesome against mech. These days I don't get roach speed anymore or even any roaches against mech, I'll get more spines, rely on queen/infestor/ling, and if I see Terran go for a third I'll just go hive that much quicker.
Never really got NP to work well unless I'm going with an Ultra based army. I don't really bother to get tunneling claws though. ever.
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The thing I'm having trouble with in this matchup is a strong mid game marine/medivac/tank push where the Terran sieges up just off my creep and gradually slow pushes forward without ever unsieging all the tanks.
I almost always go for the 6 queen, fast third into infestor play, and my problem is figuring out how to engage this army. Even when I stop the push I must be doing it wrong because I lose way too much to the tanks sieged in the back and have trouble handling his next push or followup drops and eventually get overwhelmed.
I know marine tank is about as standard as it gets in ZvT, but it's really the only style I have a ton of trouble with in this matchup. Any tips on how to handle it? (I'm platinum, btw)
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You should have ultras in time if you go infestor first, and f you go mutas, well, you'll just have to do enough damage to slow down terran enough so you get ultras in time.
If you are meeting this army without ultras, then your macro may be off. You should morph hive as soon as infestation pit is done, and really can't lose any drones or be forced to split drones.
Post a rep, it likely sounds like macro. I thought the same thing for a long time, then I realized I was just taking too much economic damage to early hellions. So now I get 1-2 spines up around 55, and make 20 lings at 60+, then get 2-3 spores at 70+.
Here's a replay where I think I did a pretty good job. Terran pushed out earlier than he should have, so I was able to crush him with a good split. You really should never engage terran, or anyone for that matter, without at least setting up a flank or attack from multiple angles:
http://drop.sc/244246
Don't underestimate macro.
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On August 13 2012 19:24 achristes wrote:
IDK if anyone else mentioned this, but if you continue to get ranged upgrades you can use infested terrans to great effect vs mech (fungal doesn't really come into play vs mech that much so might use the energy for something).
I've managed to be extremely roach-light when droning my 4th because 5+ infestors (which you should have by that time IMO) surrounding a mech army with ITs helps a lot more than most people think.
Against mech, I stop upgrading carapace and go for double attack upgrades, for exactly this reason.
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^ That's a good idea. I remember being vehemently opposed to carapace upgrades vs mech, but recently I've just got into such a habit of melee/carapace double evo in all 3 match-ups (useful for broodlings and ultras, but mech will 1 shot broodlings so that doesnt matter, and i always go ultras only as a tech switch after broods, and only if he has mass ravens which takes a long time, so i have more than enough time for that, plus +2 ultra armor is good enough if im tech switching, for the time being).
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The Mech section seems a little out of date with your latest forum advice, which mentions a couple of tactics the guide doesn't: Namely, 10-20 roaches into a fast hive, and Ultra + NP as an army composition. Would really like to see some more stuff vs. Mech, as my friend plays Mech and I play against him a lot Might be more interesting if I have some more weapons to throw at him.
That being said, I do love the guide, but you seem like the kind of guy who can handle criticism on a great piece of work to make it even better.
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^ I really need a good replay of using ultras against mech. So far, the only time I really use ultras against mech, or seen it used against it, and the utlras would have been a better choice than broodlords, is if the mech player is massing ravens, to which I have a replay on how to deal with mass ravens already. I'll clean it up about the roaches though.
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Wow, you work fast! Thanks! Will have to try the Fast Hive style vs. my friend.
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EPT
