• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:55
CET 17:55
KST 01:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League93
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? SC2 Power Rank: epic29 Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
SCHNAIL now supports Remastered BW General Discussion Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign Bot on ladder Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8945 users

[G] MMA's TvZ Hellion/Banshee Build - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
DawN883
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden558 Posts
June 08 2012 19:05 GMT
#41
Super great guide!
If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
June 09 2012 02:16 GMT
#42
On June 09 2012 02:20 Jazzman88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 01:35 dynwar7 wrote:
I am wondering why early game,MMA makes his CC right after first fact finishes...

Why, just why? For stronger econ and nowhere to spend minerals on? What about making Barracks for marines andBunkers to hold off early presure?

Or does this build rely so much on getting quick 3rd CC?


The explicit intent of Hellion/Banshee pressure is to get that quick 3rd. Hellion/Banshee is such a fast, mobile composition with a lethal effectiveness in wiping out drone lines, so the Zerg is forced to play a bit defensively if you don't fuck up your control of the units (i.e. losing your first Banshee to Spore Crawlers). So the 3rd CC is the 'sting' of the build, which sets you up beautifully for the transition into more standard Marine/Tank aggression OR mech play without the weakness of trying to establish a tankless third with just MMM.


Yeah I heard that for mech you need 3 bases to reach its full potential. ANd I like to mech TvZ.

But looking at that replay of mma vs dimaga, even though mma made n early 3rd CC, he actually didnt build it at a new expansion, it was built just above his spawning CC. so when do you actually transfer ot a new expansion? Or is the 3rd CC just there to pump SCVs?
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
SEA KarMa
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia452 Posts
June 09 2012 02:53 GMT
#43
good writeup, thanks
"terrible, terrible damage". terrible, terrible design.
-niL
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada1131 Posts
June 09 2012 02:54 GMT
#44
I love this build, I have been destroying zergs with this build!
Vies
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia57 Posts
June 11 2012 03:26 GMT
#45
Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.

Vanchen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
55 Posts
June 11 2012 03:31 GMT
#46
On June 11 2012 12:26 Vies wrote:
Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.


Well you have an expo right? Can't you just make a gas there and one in your main?
ST_Bomber|SKLGIM_MC|
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
June 11 2012 04:22 GMT
#47
On June 11 2012 12:26 Vies wrote:
Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.


Make 3rd CC faster and take the gas in your natural when that finishes. There are examples of builds like that used recently in GSL even when there was no gas steal.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
Battousai13
Profile Joined September 2010
United States638 Posts
June 11 2012 04:49 GMT
#48
I'm guessing this build is being nerco-ed because PuMa was showing off a similar build against Zerg, at MLG today?
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
June 11 2012 04:57 GMT
#49
On June 11 2012 13:49 Battousai13 wrote:
I'm guessing this build is being nerco-ed because PuMa was showing off a similar build against Zerg, at MLG today?

This build has been one of the best in TvZ for at least the last 3 months. PuMa is only one of many pros who are uses it currently.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
Vies
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-11 09:13:12
June 11 2012 09:12 GMT
#50
On June 11 2012 13:22 oOOoOphidian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 12:26 Vies wrote:
Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.


Make 3rd CC faster and take the gas in your natural when that finishes. There are examples of builds like that used recently in GSL even when there was no gas steal.


Thanks for the reply.

I am not sure how I can make CC faster as I put it down as soon as i reach 400 minerals (after first marine/OC) Do I cut marine or something here?

Hopefully I can find a game in GSL where this happened, haven't been lucky enough to find one yet. If anyone knows a game where this build was done after gas steal I'd appreciate it.

Also if you make gas at expo does this delay your gas? If so by how much?
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-11 13:58:45
June 11 2012 13:57 GMT
#51
On June 11 2012 18:12 Vies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 13:22 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On June 11 2012 12:26 Vies wrote:
Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.


Make 3rd CC faster and take the gas in your natural when that finishes. There are examples of builds like that used recently in GSL even when there was no gas steal.


Thanks for the reply.

I am not sure how I can make CC faster as I put it down as soon as i reach 400 minerals (after first marine/OC) Do I cut marine or something here?

Hopefully I can find a game in GSL where this happened, haven't been lucky enough to find one yet. If anyone knows a game where this build was done after gas steal I'd appreciate it.

Also if you make gas at expo does this delay your gas? If so by how much?

I was saying to take your third base faster than you would normally, as you will have extra minerals and later gas. You can get the natural up in time to take another gas after that and your tech will only be a little later than otherwise. I don't quite remember specific games, but I think either ZENEX_Life or TSL_Symbol was gas stealing and forcing the terrans to do this. Polt memorably pulled like 7 scvs to kill the gas and make sure he got it.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
megid
Profile Joined November 2011
Brazil142 Posts
June 22 2012 16:27 GMT
#52
Well, it's the best build for the actually meta TvZ yet i think.
Ope
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany5 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-10 14:06:35
August 10 2012 12:31 GMT
#53
Very nice guide! MMA rocks this matchup. :-D
But I`ve got a questionmark in my mind: I don`t get this build order actually...

Build Order:
10 Depot
12 Rax --> 4 Marines before Reactor
16 OC
17 CC
17 Depot
18 2x Gas
20 Bunker
25 Factory
31 Starport (Switch to tech lab of Rax)
33 CC
2x Tech Lab [Rax] / 3rd Gas
@ 4 Hellions: 2 Engineering-Bays / 2nd Rax
3x Rax / Reactor (for Rax) on Factory (and after that one more tech lab for the Factory)
@ 100% Reactor: 4th Gas

How can you switch the Starport to the Tech-Lab of the Barracks if there is a Reactor on it (after the 4 Marines)?
Could you upload a replay from yourself playin`this build, please? I`ve already watched the replays of MMA but it`s not that easy to get everything what he was doing (the casters weren`t only focussing at MMA of course^^). So I hope you can do that for me (and maybe for others, too).

Greetings

P.S.: Keep on doing such stuff, I think it`s helping people like me a lot :-)
solid.PhanT
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany144 Posts
August 10 2012 14:32 GMT
#54
Hi Ope

unfortunately I dont have a current replay from of me playing this build, because I stopped using it (mass queens destroy it...)
But there are already some replays in the opener (Spoiler "Replays/VODs", the last 8 replays).

First of all you build 4 Marines before you build a reactor. Than you switch the factory with your barracks and build a tech lab on your barracks. So you have a factory (reactor) and a barracks (building tech lab) when you start your starport. Then you can switch the starport to the tech lab. I hope you understand :D If not...add me in battle.net (Phant 227) and I will try to show you :D


Thanks for your feedback
I will do a new guide as soon as I find a new amazing MMA build :D
MMA fighting~~~
Ope
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany5 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-10 14:40:53
August 10 2012 14:40 GMT
#55
Ah thanks, just saw the replay spoiler myself^^ And also thanks for your explanation, the build order was kind of confusing for me as a low league player :-)

I`ve understood what you were explaining but I`ll just go ahead and add you in battle.net anyways :-P It`s always good to have a few persons you can ask some questions from time to time (just if you don`t mind). And then we could switch from english to german I guess^^

So thanks again and GL HF!
padfoota
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Taiwan1571 Posts
April 06 2013 10:07 GMT
#56
I am now super curious on using this build and using BFH/Hellbat/Mines rather than banshees once early game comes around. The opener will still remain the same.
Stop procrastinating
HanSomPa
Profile Joined December 2012
United States87 Posts
April 06 2013 14:57 GMT
#57
Super necro padfoota
He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.
TheWickedDuck
Profile Joined January 2011
19 Posts
April 06 2013 16:01 GMT
#58
lolololol balance
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
01:00
Ro24 Group A
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
22:00
Epic.LAN 49 Playoffs Stage
epiclan78
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 2233
Hui .222
BRAT_OK 95
MindelVK 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3952
Shuttle 770
Soulkey 111
Mind 105
Bonyth 86
Dewaltoss 86
scan(afreeca) 70
Zeus 53
Classic 32
910 26
[ Show more ]
soO 21
Rock 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
PianO 17
Hm[arnc] 11
Movie 11
Sacsri 9
Shine 8
Dota 2
Gorgc12343
monkeys_forever389
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1618
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor259
Other Games
B2W.Neo914
Beastyqt423
mouzStarbuck213
KnowMe186
ToD168
QueenE98
ArmadaUGS86
Trikslyr35
Chillindude24
Organizations
Other Games
ComeBackTV 319
gamesdonequick16
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 39
• poizon28 35
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach46
• ChaeLyn 6
• Michael_bg 4
• FirePhoenix3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2191
League of Legends
• Nemesis2508
• Jankos1451
Other Games
• Shiphtur290
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
5m
OSC
21h 5m
Yamato Cup
22h 5m
IPSL
1d
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
1d 6h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 19h
Ultimate Battle
1d 19h
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
2 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.