The explicit intent of Hellion/Banshee pressure is to get that quick 3rd. Hellion/Banshee is such a fast, mobile composition with a lethal effectiveness in wiping out drone lines, so the Zerg is forced to play a bit defensively if you don't fuck up your control of the units (i.e. losing your first Banshee to Spore Crawlers). So the 3rd CC is the 'sting' of the build, which sets you up beautifully for the transition into more standard Marine/Tank aggression OR mech play without the weakness of trying to establish a tankless third with just MMM.

Yeah I heard that for mech you need 3 bases to reach its full potential. ANd I like to mech TvZ.

But looking at that replay of mma vs dimaga, even though mma made n early 3rd CC, he actually didnt build it at a new expansion, it was built just above his spawning CC. so when do you actually transfer ot a new expansion? Or is the 3rd CC just there to pump SCVs?

SEA KarMa

Australia452 Posts

June 09 2012 02:53 GMT

#43

good writeup, thanks

-niL

Canada1131 Posts

June 09 2012 02:54 GMT

#44

I love this build, I have been destroying zergs with this build!

Vies

Australia57 Posts

June 11 2012 03:26 GMT

#45

Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.

Vanchen

55 Posts

June 11 2012 03:31 GMT

#46

On June 11 2012 12:26 Vies wrote:
Great guide and lots of insightful comments.

I just have one major question with this build... How do you stop gas steal? Because you drop CC on 16 and delay the 2nd depot you can't block the drone from getting in your base. When my marine pops I don't seem to have 75 minerals to make a refinery and block the gas steal. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks again for the great guide.

Well you have an expo right? Can't you just make a gas there and one in your main?

oOOoOphidian

United States1402 Posts

June 11 2012 04:22 GMT

#47

Make 3rd CC faster and take the gas in your natural when that finishes. There are examples of builds like that used recently in GSL even when there was no gas steal.

Battousai13

United States638 Posts

June 11 2012 04:49 GMT

#48

I'm guessing this build is being nerco-ed because PuMa was showing off a similar build against Zerg, at MLG today?

oOOoOphidian

United States1402 Posts

June 11 2012 04:57 GMT

#49

On June 11 2012 13:49 Battousai13 wrote:
I'm guessing this build is being nerco-ed because PuMa was showing off a similar build against Zerg, at MLG today?

This build has been one of the best in TvZ for at least the last 3 months. PuMa is only one of many pros who are uses it currently.

Vies

Australia57 Posts

June 11 2012 09:12 GMT

#50

On June 11 2012 13:22 oOOoOphidian wrote:

Show nested quote +

Make 3rd CC faster and take the gas in your natural when that finishes. There are examples of builds like that used recently in GSL even when there was no gas steal.

Thanks for the reply.

I am not sure how I can make CC faster as I put it down as soon as i reach 400 minerals (after first marine/OC) Do I cut marine or something here?

Hopefully I can find a game in GSL where this happened, haven't been lucky enough to find one yet. If anyone knows a game where this build was done after gas steal I'd appreciate it.

Also if you make gas at expo does this delay your gas? If so by how much?

oOOoOphidian

United States1402 Posts

June 11 2012 13:57 GMT

#51

On June 11 2012 18:12 Vies wrote:

Show nested quote +

I was saying to take your third base faster than you would normally, as you will have extra minerals and later gas. You can get the natural up in time to take another gas after that and your tech will only be a little later than otherwise. I don't quite remember specific games, but I think either ZENEX_Life or TSL_Symbol was gas stealing and forcing the terrans to do this. Polt memorably pulled like 7 scvs to kill the gas and make sure he got it.

megid

Brazil142 Posts

June 22 2012 16:27 GMT

#52

Well, it's the best build for the actually meta TvZ yet i think.

Ope

Germany5 Posts

August 10 2012 12:31 GMT

#53

Very nice guide! MMA rocks this matchup. :-D
But I`ve got a questionmark in my mind: I don`t get this build order actually...

Build Order:
10 Depot
12 Rax --> 4 Marines before Reactor
16 OC
17 CC
17 Depot
18 2x Gas
20 Bunker
25 Factory
31 Starport (Switch to tech lab of Rax)
33 CC
2x Tech Lab [Rax] / 3rd Gas
@ 4 Hellions: 2 Engineering-Bays / 2nd Rax
3x Rax / Reactor (for Rax) on Factory (and after that one more tech lab for the Factory)
@ 100% Reactor: 4th Gas

How can you switch the Starport to the Tech-Lab of the Barracks if there is a Reactor on it (after the 4 Marines)?
Could you upload a replay from yourself playin`this build, please? I`ve already watched the replays of MMA but it`s not that easy to get everything what he was doing (the casters weren`t only focussing at MMA of course^^). So I hope you can do that for me (and maybe for others, too).

Greetings

P.S.: Keep on doing such stuff, I think it`s helping people like me a lot :-)

solid.PhanT

Germany144 Posts

August 10 2012 14:32 GMT

#54

Hi Ope

unfortunately I dont have a current replay from of me playing this build, because I stopped using it

(mass queens destroy it...)
But there are already some replays in the opener (Spoiler "Replays/VODs", the last 8 replays).

First of all you build 4 Marines before you build a reactor. Than you switch the factory with your barracks and build a tech lab on your barracks. So you have a factory (reactor) and a barracks (building tech lab) when you start your starport. Then you can switch the starport to the tech lab. I hope you understand :D If not...add me in battle.net (Phant 227) and I will try to show you :D

Thanks for your feedback

I will do a new guide as soon as I find a new amazing MMA build :D

Ope

Germany5 Posts

August 10 2012 14:40 GMT

#55

Ah thanks, just saw the replay spoiler myself^^ And also thanks for your explanation, the build order was kind of confusing for me as a low league player :-)

I`ve understood what you were explaining but I`ll just go ahead and add you in battle.net anyways :-P It`s always good to have a few persons you can ask some questions from time to time (just if you don`t mind). And then we could switch from english to german I guess^^

So thanks again and GL HF!

padfoota

Taiwan1571 Posts

April 06 2013 10:07 GMT

#56

I am now super curious on using this build and using BFH/Hellbat/Mines rather than banshees once early game comes around. The opener will still remain the same.