EPTMultitasking and mechanics
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
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PeanutsNJam
United States175 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326144 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=improving starcraft 2 mechanics | ||
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Tansu
Finland63 Posts
Btw, 60 apm for diamond player is standard and nothing special. I'm in master league with over 100apm and I guess it has got better slowly all the time. I mean there hasn't been big leaps in my improvement. 177 is pretty good though from the multitask 2 game or then you have just played it a lot. | ||
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mtszyk
21 Posts
As an example (I play zerg), I have lings on one key, a small group of lings on another key if I'm harassing/counterattacking with them, I use camera hotkeys for injecting, if I have mutas they are on another group, infestors on another. If I have a brofestor hit squad, then they'll be on another. All of those are standard keys for me to use, so I never really have to think about where the groups are, just double tap 3 for harass lings, 4 for mutas, 5 for brofestors, space for all infestors, g for bulk army, etc. My camera hotkeys are on Shift+QWEASD (Ctrl to set the location). This has an unfortunate side effect of disabling the ability to do shift+hold position (w, wait), and shift + d or e for abilities, but it has yet to affect my play. Instead I just use the ability with D or E first, then hold shift and click. The camera hotkeys also help for spreading creep. I use a DarkGrid-esque set of hotkeys, but a relatively small number of my keys actually match DarkGrid. The style is basically the same, though. I'd recommend figuring out exactly how you want control groups, and also find a way to work in camera hotkeys if possible. /shrug | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
It's the same kind of idea as a macro circuit i.e. build supply depots > make workers > build units > update infrastructure. Having a circuit like this improves your general apm because you've got planned moves ahead of a particular moment. Thinking about it outside of a macro circuit, then, you might apply this philosophy to army movements, drop plays, ability usage. A concrete example is a terran push in TvZ. One ought to be thinking, as their army is moving foward, 'at point x I need to siege my tanks/split my marines/drop this medivac at point y/drop this medivac and point z' and so on. Hotkeys, as other people have said above me, are also super important but having a sequence of actions in mind whilst playing is also key to improving your multitasking. | ||
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Deleted User 255289
281 Posts
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romelako
United States373 Posts
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:02 Absentia wrote: LiquidTyler gave a brilliant piece of advice in what I think was an episode of State of the Game. Basically if you want to improve your multitasking ability, try to be thinking a couple of moves ahead of what you're actually doing right now. It's the same kind of idea as a macro circuit i.e. build supply depots > make workers > build units > update infrastructure. Having a circuit like this improves your general apm because you've got planned moves ahead of a particular moment. Thinking about it outside of a macro circuit, then, you might apply this philosophy to army movements, drop plays, ability usage. A concrete example is a terran push in TvZ. One ought to be thinking, as their army is moving foward, 'at point x I need to siege my tanks/split my marines/drop this medivac at point y/drop this medivac and point z' and so on. Hotkeys, as other people have said above me, are also super important but having a sequence of actions in mind whilst playing is also key to improving your multitasking. That's good. It takes great sense of time to do that I think. practice practice practice | ||
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:19 Tansu wrote: My tip: just play a lot of games and learn to use hotkies well (every of them, camera hotkies also). Btw, 60 apm for diamond player is standard and nothing special. I'm in master league with over 100apm and I guess it has got better slowly all the time. I mean there hasn't been big leaps in my improvement. 177 is pretty good though from the multitask 2 game or then you have just played it a lot. i guess I shouldn't have said " only in diamond", I didn't mean for the fact I had 60 apm to be connected to the diamond part. I said " only" because I'm on TL where pros go. I said 60 because I think it's low. | ||
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Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:04 superbarnie wrote: I'm silver and I have 100 apm. I always thought diamond players should have atleast 150 apm. To be honest, I find it hard to believe. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:04 superbarnie wrote: I'm silver and I have 100 apm. I always thought diamond players should have atleast 150 apm. im master and i have 110 apm . and i do very well actualy . you should do something with 100 apm not just spam ffs. | ||
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Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
I was a ~100 APM gold for the longest time, without spam. I expected masters to all be around 200 or something. On April 13 2012 03:00 xsnac wrote: im master and i have 110 apm . and i do very well actualy . you should do something with 100 apm not just spam ffs. You play Protoss though right? Protoss requires less APM. From the replays I've seen, even masters terrans and zergs are often below 150 APM though. | ||
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IPlaySC
United States79 Posts
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Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
On April 13 2012 03:52 IPlaySC wrote: APM definitely does not equal skill. I can maintain 400 APM and build nothing. Watch the Day9 daily(ies?) about mechanics if you want to improve that aspect of your play We are already aware of this. Thanks for trying to help, but we hear this every time someone brings up APM. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
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Tal0n
United States175 Posts
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On April 13 2012 03:52 IPlaySC wrote: APM definitely does not equal skill. I can maintain 400 APM and build nothing. Watch the Day9 daily(ies?) about mechanics if you want to improve that aspect of your play This is true, and APM is relative based on the game that you're playing and how well your brain is thinking ahead. Because of my years playing bw I have about 250 apm, but in sc2 I feel like I don't have to get any faster, just make better decisions, whereas in bw I felt like 250 was nowhere close to enough. If you want to get faster, first just force yourself to spam hardcore between doing everything that's actually useful. After you get that "false apm" up with spam, then you can go back through your games and actually re-distribute that apm into useful stuff like injecting, splitting units up, spreading overlord etc etc... | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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DownfallofChaos
United States11 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:04 superbarnie wrote: I'm silver and I have 100 apm. I always thought diamond players should have atleast 150 apm. I'm high diamond/low master in 1v1 and mid-master 2v2 and I only have 90 APM if you measure actions in real minutes (as given by sc2gears) or 60 APM in Blizzard's odd system. I make almost no redundant actions (3% according to sc2gears). I just click all of the right buttons, once, and plan ahead as Tyler suggests. -Kris | ||
Poopi
France12911 Posts
I dunno which race you are (maybe terran but I am not sure if your icon is a SCV or some BW unit I don't know), but if you are terran you can try in TvZ : 2 rax (it will improve your marine/scv production thus frequent usage of Rax & CC hotkeys, macro awareness by trying to put down the command center ASAP while still applying the pressure, and some micro), standart reactor hellion build but this time focus on NOT losing your hellions while still macroing correctly (it will help improving your minimap and overall awareness), and this "MMA" build MKP has been using against DRG on antiga shipyard in the latest MLG, basically 1rax FE to double gas asap to reactor hellion to cloacked banshee (not sure of the 3rd CC timing but you can even put it down quickly), you'll have to manage both hellions and banshee harassment/tumor farming while having to put down the barracks at the right time. For TvP I guess you can try out the hellion variation of the 1-1-1 (3 or 4 hellion + 8 marine medivac drop, you can drop the marines in the back or the hellions) which involves managing two sides, plus when playing a standart TvP splitting army with drops to attack two places (or more) at once, etc, basically making good use of drops. Oh and the most important thing is that you'll have to not give a shit about winning your games, because you'll probably do a lot of mistakes trying to multitask at first causing you to lose, but in the end you'll become better & have a better multitask much much faster. | ||
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MugenXBanksy
United States479 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 13 2012 04:29 Poopi wrote: I think that you should start spamming a bit at the beginning, play mostly agressive builds forcing you to multitask hard and overall play a lot of games. I dunno which race you are (maybe terran but I am not sure if your icon is a SCV or some BW unit I don't know), but if you are terran you can try in TvZ : 2 rax (it will improve your marine/scv production thus frequent usage of Rax & CC hotkeys, macro awareness by trying to put down the command center ASAP while still applying the pressure, and some micro), standart reactor hellion build but this time focus on NOT losing your hellions while still macroing correctly (it will help improving your minimap and overall awareness), and this "MMA" build MKP has been using against DRG on antiga shipyard in the latest MLG, basically 1rax FE to double gas asap to reactor hellion to cloacked banshee (not sure of the 3rd CC timing but you can even put it down quickly), you'll have to manage both hellions and banshee harassment/tumor farming while having to put down the barracks at the right time. For TvP I guess you can try out the hellion variation of the 1-1-1 (3 or 4 hellion + 8 marine medivac drop, you can drop the marines in the back or the hellions) which involves managing two sides, plus when playing a standart TvP splitting army with drops to attack two places (or more) at once, etc, basically making good use of drops. Oh and the most important thing is that you'll have to not give a shit about winning your games, because you'll probably do a lot of mistakes trying to multitask at first causing you to lose, but in the end you'll become better & have a better multitask much much faster. This is very good advice. | ||
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
On April 13 2012 04:22 ZenithM wrote: 60 APM is good enough man, no need to push yourself too hard. lol u for real | ||
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
Yea i was just thinking that after reading it. I play protoss but this sounds like fun. | ||
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LayZRR
Germany449 Posts
my decisionmaking and all sucks. i am silver and i have about 80 apm too. i am way faster but always loose for some reason. no shit. | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104910 - BW guide on mechanics (applies to present) http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf - Ver's guide to improvement. Section dedicated to multitasking fleshes out triage example. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
http://drop.sc/158630 Just x8 this shit until the end and look at Blue's EPM and APM. Yep, that guy had sick hand speed indeed. Multitask? Well I don't know about that... | ||
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Poopi
France12911 Posts
On April 13 2012 04:22 ZenithM wrote: 60 APM is good enough man, no need to push yourself too hard. Oh if the OP is protoss, then the eAPM "goal" won't be the same. What I mean is that for a pro that average 150 to 170 eAPM as terran/zerg (eAPM not apm) he will probably be around 120-130 eapm as protoss (cf sc2gears "experiments") because of how the race works (doesn't produce a lot of units so you don't gain that much apm by producing units, etc). So 60 eAPM would not be that bad (eAPM not apm, just check your eAPM in sc2gears it'll be easier) but an average good protoss eapm would be something like 100 I guess? Since you are protoss my previous advices don't apply, so try builds & playstyle à la Liquid`Hero (and maybe ZeNEXSickness not sure about him). However eAPM doesn't mean much especially when talking about awareness, for example I only started using reactor hellions based builds recently (around the time ling infestor became popular), therefore my awareness with hellions against lings in the early game was quite shitty, but my apm was the same and it had nothing to do with apm, just that since I didn't use these builds previously my mind wasn't used enough to be "aware" & careful with the hellions. This is why gaining better multitask with agressive builds won't mean that you'll be as good with standart play, but it will help you play standart better especially when you'll be used to it. Gl. | ||
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Lionbacker
United States47 Posts
You do not spam, so I will provide my thoughts on APM. The more you play, the better your APM will become. Instead of trying to increase it, you should try to decrease it. Sounds silly eh? They got it right when they came out with EPM, effective actions per minute. People got all upset though because their spam no longer counted! Remember, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Only click as fast as you can kill your opponent or do something effective. The more you play, the more you will find your APM increasing when it matters the most, engaging the enemy and macroing simultaneously. As long as you see your APM getting cranked up during those times you are probably improving. People love their APM, but the only stat that matters are WINS. I agree with checking with day9. He provides a lot of drills in his newbie tuesday file. Good luck on your development. | ||
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:29 Lionbacker wrote: Neurologically, spamming at the beginning of a game does NOT make you are more effective starcraft 2 player. It does not "warm" you up. Perhaps, the biggest misconception ever. I am not a superstar starcraft 2 player, but my real-life profession does require me to know a few things about it! People's lives depend on it. You naturally warm up as you play the game, going from less than 10 supply all the way up to 200! You do not spam, so I will provide my thoughts on APM. The more you play, the better your APM will become. Instead of trying to increase it, you should try to decrease it. Sounds silly eh? They got it right when they came out with EPM, effective actions per minute. People got all upset though because their spam no longer counted! Remember, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Only click as fast as you can kill your opponent or do something effective. The more you play, the more you will find your APM increasing when it matters the most, engaging the enemy and macroing simultaneously. As long as you see your APM getting cranked up during those times you are probably improving. People love their APM, but the only stat that matters are WINS. I agree with checking with day9. He provides a lot of drills in his newbie tuesday file. Good luck on your development. Yea I share your view. Thanks. | ||
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Fugue
Australia253 Posts
One of the reasons I enjoy Starcraft is that there is always something you need to be doing. Macro, Tech, Creep spread, army movement, scouting, etc... I don't think I've seen anyone playing who has time to sit around doing nothing. It just doesn't happen. So my focus for "multitasking and mechanics" improvement is finding the most efficient ways to do everything. It can be hard to get into new habits and break old ones (I still don't regularly do larvae injects the way I should, for example), but analysing different methods, practicing them, and settling on those that work and feel comfortable (even if there's a long period of discomfort as you adjust) will lead to more efficient play, which leads to more times when you feel like you've done everything you have to, which leads to more space for you to fill with actions that have a lesser priority. | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:03 LayZRR wrote: my decisionmaking and all sucks. i am silver and i have about 80 apm too. i am way faster but always loose for some reason. no shit. You can have the most terrible decision making and still win every game with 80 APM in silver.. I assume you guys either lie or you prefer spamclicking over actually doing something. | ||
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PeanutsNJam
United States175 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:29 Lionbacker wrote: Neurologically, spamming at the beginning of a game does NOT make you are more effective starcraft 2 player. It does not "warm" you up. Perhaps, the biggest misconception ever. I am not a superstar starcraft 2 player, but my real-life profession does require me to know a few things about it! People's lives depend on it. You naturally warm up as you play the game, going from less than 10 supply all the way up to 200! You do not spam, so I will provide my thoughts on APM. The more you play, the better your APM will become. Instead of trying to increase it, you should try to decrease it. Sounds silly eh? They got it right when they came out with EPM, effective actions per minute. People got all upset though because their spam no longer counted! Remember, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Only click as fast as you can kill your opponent or do something effective. The more you play, the more you will find your APM increasing when it matters the most, engaging the enemy and macroing simultaneously. As long as you see your APM getting cranked up during those times you are probably improving. People love their APM, but the only stat that matters are WINS. I agree with checking with day9. He provides a lot of drills in his newbie tuesday file. Good luck on your development. Quote's from the movie Sniper. Give credit where credit is due. | ||
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StevieWonder333
55 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:29 Lionbacker wrote: Neurologically, spamming at the beginning of a game does NOT make you are more effective starcraft 2 player. It does not "warm" you up. Perhaps, the biggest misconception ever. I am not a superstar starcraft 2 player, but my real-life profession does require me to know a few things about it! People's lives depend on it. You naturally warm up as you play the game, going from less than 10 supply all the way up to 200! You do not spam, so I will provide my thoughts on APM. The more you play, the better your APM will become. Instead of trying to increase it, you should try to decrease it. Sounds silly eh? They got it right when they came out with EPM, effective actions per minute. People got all upset though because their spam no longer counted! Remember, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Only click as fast as you can kill your opponent or do something effective. The more you play, the more you will find your APM increasing when it matters the most, engaging the enemy and macroing simultaneously. As long as you see your APM getting cranked up during those times you are probably improving. People love their APM, but the only stat that matters are WINS. I agree with checking with day9. He provides a lot of drills in his newbie tuesday file. Good luck on your development. oh, but neurologically, spamming won't "warm you up". but physiologically, moving your fingers definitely warms up your hands. | ||
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HybridZ
Canada103 Posts
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PeanutsNJam
United States175 Posts
On April 14 2012 02:57 HybridZ wrote: A silver with 100 apm MUST be doing a lOt of useless shit. I've seen plats with horrid horrid macrO bc they spam ingame and don't focus on what's most important. Then a lot of them will get mad at you for telling them to Pay more attention to your hatches. I guess they want to feel gosu lol. Maybe he's boxing his workers when he should be making depots/pylons/overlords or something. For 40 seconds. Or more. | ||
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Stingart
122 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:29 Lionbacker wrote: Neurologically, spamming at the beginning of a game does NOT make you are more effective starcraft 2 player. It does not "warm" you up. Perhaps, the biggest misconception ever. I am not a superstar starcraft 2 player, but my real-life profession does require me to know a few things about it! People's lives depend on it. You naturally warm up as you play the game, going from less than 10 supply all the way up to 200! You do not spam, so I will provide my thoughts on APM. The more you play, the better your APM will become. Instead of trying to increase it, you should try to decrease it. Sounds silly eh? They got it right when they came out with EPM, effective actions per minute. People got all upset though because their spam no longer counted! Remember, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Only click as fast as you can kill your opponent or do something effective. The more you play, the more you will find your APM increasing when it matters the most, engaging the enemy and macroing simultaneously. As long as you see your APM getting cranked up during those times you are probably improving. People love their APM, but the only stat that matters are WINS. I agree with checking with day9. He provides a lot of drills in his newbie tuesday file. Good luck on your development. How does spamming at the beginning not warm you up? When i watch professional people doing there thing, be it playing the piano, running a marathon or a card dealer I see them all warming up in the early stages, before the main act. So not only are you attacking the SC2 community here, but everything that containst an activity at which you can warm up. What makes SC2 different from everything else, that its the only task in the world that doesn't increase your effectiveness? Becaus it cearly works for every other field. I'd also like to point out your statement:"You naturally warm up as you play the game, going from less than 10 supply all the way up to 200!" The problem here is that you're warming up while the main event is taking place. When its over you're all warmed up but hey, then its too late because they game is already over, so what was the point in warming up? Warming up gets the blood to flow around the body, limbering joints and stretching the muscles and connective tissue. Maybe it doesn't do anything neurologically, but i have never seen anybody say that it did while using the word neurologically. So why is it a misconception that warming up works neurologically, when nobody states it as such? Also, what is it that you do exactly that makes you an expert on this topic?. You only tell us that you're one, but you're causing more doubt than anything else just by saying "other peoples lifes depend on it." I know for certain that it helps physically, and while i'm no expert on this, i can from my own experience that it also works mentally. I know this from personal expierence, through running, jujitsu and my gaming experience. My results just increase when i warm up. | ||
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Lionbacker
United States47 Posts
Do you think SEALs do jumping jacks or a dynamic warm up before they jump out of a plane 35,000 feet above sea level over the persian gulf where it is pitch black and -35 degrees below zero? No, but the moment their boots hit the ground they begin executing, and just like many other special forces, they execute to the razor's edge of perfection. Stupid SEALs... You see the pro's do it? Pro's are the best players on the planet, but correlation does not mean causation. They are not good because they spam. Yes, there is a minimum amount of APM required to be successful. However, spamming does NOT warm you up and it does NOT make you a more effective player. Warm up? You playing in sub artic conditions? When somebody intends on hurting you and your loved ones, are you going to ask them to warm up before you impose your jiu jitsu techniques on them? If you can't execute to perfection without pyschologically "warming up" you are in trouble. If anything, spamming is counterproductive. You are wasting motions. Your clicks are not effective. Every bullet you shoot should be a hit. Every click you take should be effective. Don't blindly follow something that the majority of people are doing. That is a dangerous habit to develop. Critical thinking skills are essential. Everybody thought the sun revolved around the Earth. That was the consensus. One guy didn't. As more information was revealed it was discovered that the Earth revolved around the Sun! I enjoy this conversation. Thanks for letting me be part of it. Take care. | ||
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BobTheSCV
Sweden37 Posts
But YMMV I guess. | ||
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Stingart
122 Posts
On April 14 2012 07:55 Lionbacker wrote: Does a lion stretch and warm up before it strikes? I've never seen it. Stupid lions... Do you think SEALs do jumping jacks or a dynamic warm up before they jump out of a plane 35,000 feet above sea level over the persian gulf where it is pitch black and -35 degrees below zero? No, but the moment their boots hit the ground they begin executing, and just like many other special forces, they execute to the razor's edge of perfection. Stupid SEALs... You see the pro's do it? Pro's are the best players on the planet, but correlation does not mean causation. They are not good because they spam. Yes, there is a minimum amount of APM required to be successful. However, spamming does NOT warm you up and it does NOT make you a more effective player. Warm up? You playing in sub artic conditions? When somebody intends on hurting you and your loved ones, are you going to ask them to warm up before you impose your jiu jitsu techniques on them? If you can't execute to perfection without pyschologically "warming up" you are in trouble. If anything, spamming is counterproductive. You are wasting motions. Your clicks are not effective. Every bullet you shoot should be a hit. Every click you take should be effective. Don't blindly follow something that the majority of people are doing. That is a dangerous habit to develop. Critical thinking skills are essential. Everybody thought the sun revolved around the Earth. That was the consensus. One guy didn't. As more information was revealed it was discovered that the Earth revolved around the Sun! I enjoy this conversation. Thanks for letting me be part of it. Take care. On April 14 2012 07:55 Lionbacker wrote: Does a lion stretch and warm up before it strikes? I've never seen it. Stupid lions... Hahaha,now you have. On April 14 2012 07:55 Lionbacker wrote:If anything, spamming is counterproductive. You are wasting motions. Your clicks are not effective. Every bullet you shoot should be a hit. Every click you take should be effective. Stating such can only be true when you're perfect, we are not machines. if you're not then practice. On April 14 2012 07:55 Lionbacker wrote:When somebody intends on hurting you and your loved ones, are you going to ask them to warm up before you impose your jiu jitsu techniques on them? If you can't execute to perfection without pyschologically "warming up" you are in trouble. Even at my best i'm not perfect, surpised? Ah wait let me turn this one around for you. When you wake up every morning. Do you instantly put on your clothes, take a shower, shave, brush your teeth without that a little down time that everybody else has? I bet you do! Because everything seems perfect in your world. On April 14 2012 07:55 Lionbacker wrote:Don't blindly follow something that the majority of people are doing. That is a dangerous habit to develop. Critical thinking skills are essential. Didn't i just told you that not only have i noticed other players do it. But i also experienced its effects myself. So why are you putting that statement out there, trying to look smart? To me it looks like you didn't read correctly. Here, i'll be smart: Everybody thought that jumping off a cliff would kill you, but hey "but correlation does not mean causation" one guy said... What you never heard of him? I'm not suprised. I want these 2 questions answered: 1: Why is it a misconception that warming up works neurologically, when nobody states it as such? 2: Taken from Wikipedia, oh how reliable am i hahaha. A warm-up: Benefits Direct physical effects are: - Release of adrenaline - Increased heart rate - Enables oxygen in the blood to travel with greater speed - Increased production of synovial fluid located between the joints to reduce friction - Allows joints to move more efficiently - Dilation of capillaries - Enables oxygen in the blood to travel at a higher volume - Increase of temperature in the muscles - Decreased viscosity of blood - Enables oxygen in the blood to travel with greater speed - Facilitates enzyme activity - Encourages the dissociation of oxygen from haemoglobin - Decreased viscosity[clarification needed] within the muscle - Greater extensibility and elasticity of muscle fibres - Increased force and speed of contraction - Increase of muscle metabolism - Supply of energy through breakdown of glycogen - Increase in speed of nerve impulse conduction - Removes lactic acid Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warming_up Are you denying this? It seems to me that you're very booksmart, using statments as perfection, 1 shot 1 kill, don't waste a single motion. Yeah hahaha very cool, i wish i was like that. But i'm no machine, and while i can execute at any time, it doesn't make me optimized while doing it. What kind of sports do you do? What kind of activity's do you engage yourself in? Aside from SC2, which you stated in your earlier posts you're not good at. I ask this because if you cannot provide me with anything real, to me you're just putting theory in the table without the practical experience to back any of it up. | ||
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