EPTkeep pumping workers! 34k games => 4 charts - Page 2
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goldenwitch
United States338 Posts
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
I wonder if there is a way to exclude replays in which one player cheesed another player or had to cut a lot of workers due to an allin timing attack or some other push etc. But yeah i don't really know if this data helps anything at all, ofc making workers constantly is a good thing but there could be lots of simple things that can change the outcome of the data. e.g. master players are able to manage their drops better -> therefore zerg players need to build more drones and thats why the zerg opponent needs to make more drones than a diamond zerg player with an unharrassed economy. Or a Zerg master leaves right after he knows he can't stop some allin and therefore probe cutting for his enemey is not as decisive as it would be if the zerg kept trying 5 more minutes. These example seems to be cheesy but i hope you get what my overall problem with this data is. I much rather would want a worker production over gametime graph for each race and weed out non standard games(games under 5-6 minutes, games in which a huge amount of workers was produced in the lategame you als have to discount drones in the lategame because they often just will be made to be turned into spinecrawlers etc.) to get more accurate data, i know that this change wouldn't turn the data into something perfect but it would help to make it better. | ||
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taitanik
Latvia231 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On March 11 2012 21:37 taitanik wrote: if i would give 1 advise to a player whos is not diamond/master is just make workers non stop and just spend your money even if its just 20 baracks or 10 gates you will get to diamond/master just by doing it Not always true Spending money, of course,but not as blindly as making 20 barracks etc. The current league is much more complex and difficult compared to the league last season or last year. It becomes more competitive and difficult each day. SO while your advice could work for past seasons, now it is more complex. | ||
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On March 10 2012 15:34 TheGreenMachine wrote: I have to quote this and talk about it... "for the super nerds out there, a technical note. due to limitations of the replay file format, we cannot measure worker production exactly; we can only measure when the player attempts to create a worker. in some cases the player can spam worker-creation commands that do not correspond to actual worker production. therefore we put a 3-second anti-spam filter into the measurement. it’s not perfect. it’s at its worst when a player will queue up probe production or make six drones in a second. despite these problems, there’s a clear relationship between wpm as we measure it and league, so for that reason i’d argue you’re pretty safe using this wpm as a metric to measure your own improvement as a player." sad that this isnt very accurate then  indeed. as a zerg, injects pop 4 larvae at a time.. so only 1 out of 4 gets counted. Sometimes you get supply blocked as zerg and make >10 drones at a time, up to 20 sometimes. Only one gets counted? | ||
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
in the meantime, is the current metric a useful one to track, for a player who's trying to improve? perhaps the metric should be called not "workers per minute" but "worker creationwaves per minute". once properly understood, i think the metric could be useful. put it this way -- would you expect a better player to have more creationwaves per minute or per game? across all 40k players, the # of creationwaves is clearly correlated to league. will do a per-race analysis soon as well. --dj | ||
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Iksf
United Kingdom444 Posts
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
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netherh
United Kingdom333 Posts
It would be nice if the match numbers shown on the graphs were listed in the matches table too. That way I could go straight to the matches where my worker production was nice and high, and watch those replays, instead of having to browse through pages and pages looking for wpm values. | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
netherh, great idea! Will do it in the next version. | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
On March 11 2012 21:01 idonthinksobro wrote: isn't sc2gears able to measure worker production exactly? It might take a while if you try to analyze 20k games or more at once but i am pretty sure that would lead to more interesting results. No. The problem is in the SC2 replay format. It is basically a list of actions taken by both players (build-order for unit X, move unit Y to location Z, change camera to location Z, etc...). The game can then replay these actions and since there is no random element in the game engine, the result is exactly the same every time. Replays also contain failed commands, such as building a worker when you dont have the minerals for it. Without the original game engine to determine exactly which build commands were successful, the best you can do is apply clever guesses to estimate how many workers were actually built. It's possible that SC2Gears has a better guess-algorithm (I wouldnt know). In that case, it'll be easier to just implement that in the script that these results were generated with. | ||
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denzelz
United States604 Posts
On March 12 2012 04:44 Macpo wrote: From what I read so far, the way the correlation between workers and level works is far from clear : actually, it's maybe much more because you are better, that you manage to make more workers; than the contrary. I think part of it is that the better you are, the more likely you are to go for macro builds. If you go Reactor Hellion into 3CCs, you can build a lot more SCVS per minute, which is probably why there's a huge spike for GM players. | ||
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parkin
1080 Posts
On March 10 2012 14:44 dsjoerg wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kvzSX.png) why do the pros have lower wpm at the beginning of the games? | ||
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Kentredenite
United States220 Posts
On March 12 2012 08:29 parkin wrote: why do the pros have lower wpm at the beginning of the games? The x-axis is wpm and the y-axis is population density. Meaning, the average pro has just a little under 2 wpm, and the rest are sort of bell-curve-distributed around that, while the masters average lower and have a differently shaped distribution. | ||
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RedZ
16 Posts
I love your website, very cool to see how my trends compare to that of the masses and to the masters and above trends Just an idea, you should create an option to allow players to seperate their games based on length, and allow them to see the trends of those games For example, the WPM of all 10 minute or shorter games for a player or the WPM for all 25 minute or longer games for a player just an idea great website! | ||
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
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polybios
Czech Republic111 Posts
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