EPT1.4.3 How to kill lategame Zerg? - Page 16
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Panzerfaust7
United States38 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On February 25 2012 10:51 BinxyBrown wrote: You cant know if Terran is going for a 2 base all in or for a fast third, the safest way to play it is to do what idra did, I think he skimped on infestors too much late game and could have been a little bit better with forward spore collonies to help vs the air but overall he was playing really well. Pre splitting air doesnt work because of the vikings they just pick off units on the fringe for free over and over, idra needed some more ling drops or something to weaken possitions. Terran played it well but its really hard to beat. Also idra could have probably slowed it down a little by making some mutas earlier and then going into infestors. It is a good example of how to play late game though, you use vikings to hit broods, ultras and lings get owned by hellion tank thor, and ravens stop any burrow shenanigans and own mass air when controlled the best it can be, add in like 2 ghosts for emp on clumped infestors and you create a lot of opportunity to do lots of damage to Zerg gas units. I would kill for archon toilet or seeker missiles, zerg late game AOE is so weak compared to P and T and it really shows. Maybe if neural was 9 range again we could pick off 1 unit at a time the way terrans can to even it out a bit. I don't think you realize how small the radius of Seeker actually is. You don't need intensive splitting just minor is more then enough. Just put your air in kinda of a formation and make sure they don't really overlap and the you hit at best 3 maybe 4 targets and only the first actually takes decent damage. I played against Seeker several times in TvT with Vikings its not that hard to mitigate damage if you know what you're dealing with. | ||
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robm
United States56 Posts
On February 25 2012 11:54 Panzerfaust7 wrote: if zerg can have mass t3 why should terran. id think viking bc could work pretty good Battlecruisers get hard countered by Corruptors, which many Zerg have around as baby Brood Lords anyway. | ||
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iopq
United States1182 Posts
On February 25 2012 12:41 robm wrote: Battlecruisers get hard countered by Corruptors, which many Zerg have around as baby Brood Lords anyway. the key here is to have lots of Ravens, then you get PDDs, yamatos, missiles and terran actually can have air superiority or you skip the BCs and just have viking/raven to go with the hellion/tank/thor ground army | ||
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GoodNewsJim
United States122 Posts
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iopq
United States1182 Posts
On February 25 2012 13:55 GoodNewsJim wrote: Ravens are not the answer. Ravens are good against bad or lazy players who accidentally clump their units and don't micro against HSM. HSM is just a gimmick that seldom works. People might be caught unaware since it is used so rarely and not realize how to counter HSM, but veterans shouldn't fall for it. Sometimes the only way you can come from behind is to get a lucky HSM or Nuke land on their entire army, so I mean it has its place like the Hail Mary pass in football, but it isn't something to do a build order around. that's like saying banelings are not the answer to marine balls sure, you can micro against it, but that doesn't mean you don't lose dps on your units trying to split them and that doesn't mean it still doesn't do damage also, there is no counter to pdds as zerg, vikings + pdds > corruptors easily | ||
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Nagano
United States1157 Posts
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joocybaneling
67 Posts
On February 25 2012 14:31 Nagano wrote: Anyone watch today's MLG? Yea, THAT'S how you counter zerg t3 QFT turtle on 3 bases and get the following: 3/3 thors and vikings and BF hellions get 20 SCV set them on auto repair seemed to work for DeMuslim against Nestea in game 3 and Thorzain vs. Leenock in game 1, damn dat terran deathball was unstoppable | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
On February 25 2012 13:13 iopq wrote: the key here is to have lots of Ravens, then you get PDDs, yamatos, missiles and terran actually can have air superiority or you skip the BCs and just have viking/raven to go with the hellion/tank/thor ground army Infestors beat this entire composition. Sad but true. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
It's a numbers game, of course, and there are different scenarios, but infestors on their own don't do much to that. You're going to have to have lots of corruptors or tons of energy... it would be hard. It's hard for Terran to assume map control against zerg, or at least enough to secure another expansion. I don't see heavier tech really being the way to go unless it's a split map. | ||
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On February 25 2012 10:58 MrMcIntosh wrote: Simple Answer: Don't let Zerg get into the late game. Terran has quite a few decent timings they can abuse. You don't always need to go Reactor Hellion Opening. Experiment. Figure something out. I don't think this is really a good answer to it. The game is stupid if you only have the viable option of winning before the 17~ minute mark. Not that I think that is the case right now, but still. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
What is not a stretch is ravens and vikings to deal with much of the brood lords (4 vikings and 2 ravens per 3 broodlords for equal cost and supply, but could probably get away with less) and spaced out siege tanks to deal with ultralisks — thor/banshee/PF support helps too (don't need many). PFs are great damage sponges and great to killlings too, and hellions should be able to roast most of the lings as well. Even the auto-turrets can help soak up damage from lings or ultras, and help kill lings) The biggest challenge is to just ensure you target-fire ultralisks and not zerglings with the siege tanks — too many people think that because they're mixed with zerglings they become unstoppable; while it does make them harder to deal with (mixed up armies is always harder to deal with, what do you expect?), there are still ways to deal with them (i.e. target firing with tanks) | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
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Ktk
Korea (South)753 Posts
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On February 25 2012 15:27 joocybaneling wrote: QFT turtle on 3 bases and get the following: 3/3 thors and vikings and BF hellions get 20 SCV set them on auto repair seemed to work for DeMuslim against Nestea in game 3 and Thorzain vs. Leenock in game 1, damn dat terran deathball was unstoppable This is great until zergs figure out that mass brood lord isn't great vs mass thor and if you have enough thors to fight off BL's you can just pump out mass cracklings and massacre the thor army cost efficiently. Either that or just remax on pure roach and get upgrades (which Nestea didn't) | ||
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Facultyadjutant
Sweden1876 Posts
Discover bc rave which won't die to anything, literally anything Terran lategame is still retardedly strong :> | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On February 25 2012 15:27 joocybaneling wrote: QFT turtle on 3 bases and get the following: 3/3 thors and vikings and BF hellions get 20 SCV set them on auto repair seemed to work for DeMuslim against Nestea in game 3 and Thorzain vs. Leenock in game 1, damn dat terran deathball was unstoppable That would be pretty map specific build. Terran turtle requires that you can put the map in half to stay on equal bases (shakuras plateau) so that your opponent cannot steamroll you with his superior economy. In a map like Tal'darim altar that composition would most likely fail since you cannot push out until you have that 3/3 upgrades and enough thors, hellions and vikings while meantime zerg has probably taken the whole map already and has +8 gasses. | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On February 25 2012 17:19 Raambo11 wrote: Do realise how big thors are. If you stand in the middle of Tal'Darim Altar with your mass thors you truly do deserve to lose the game, mate. One does not simply "mass crackling" against a trillion thors with BFH support.This is great until zergs figure out that mass brood lord isn't great vs mass thor and if you have enough thors to fight off BL's you can just pump out mass cracklings and massacre the thor army cost efficiently. Either that or just remax on pure roach and get upgrades (which Nestea didn't) | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On February 25 2012 11:54 Panzerfaust7 wrote: if zerg can have mass t3 why should terran. id think viking bc could work pretty good On February 25 2012 17:51 Facultyadjutant wrote: Discover seeker missile Discover bc rave which won't die to anything, literally anything Terran lategame is still retardedly strong :> There are a few problems with this idea :
However, there might be something with the Raven. People will have to try it out. On February 25 2012 18:27 Elem wrote: Do realise how big thors are. If you stand in the middle of Tal'Darim Altar with your mass thors you truly do deserve to lose the game, mate. One does not simply "mass crackling" against a trillion thors with BFH support. No, one sends decoy Overlords with 3/3 Roaches. : p Mass Thor is, as someone already said, situational. In a map like Tal'Darim, the Zerg has plenty of time to see what the Terran is doing, reacting accordingly. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 25 2012 17:19 Raambo11 wrote: This is great until zergs figure out that mass brood lord isn't great vs mass thor and if you have enough thors to fight off BL's you can just pump out mass cracklings and massacre the thor army cost efficiently. Either that or just remax on pure roach and get upgrades (which Nestea didn't) try mass roach vs mass Thor. It loses. Roaches are costefficient against Thors, Thors are supplyefficient vs Roaches. Not to mention that Terran can scout the roaches (for example by forcing them to defend against hellions) and then add this exotic unit... what was it called again... you know, the one with the 13range and the insane antiarmored dps... And cracklings... yeah sure. Against mass blueflame hellion (and this exotic unit) this is the dumbest thing ever. Funny thing, I just went to a unit tester to see how good 3/3 cracklings are vs Thors in a high supply scenario. 17 Thors (102supply) vs 216 zerglings (108 supply) with clumped Thors on open field: real hardounter those cracklings man... two Thors died AND 2more were far down in the red!  No, you're gonna need Broods and/or Ultras against those Thors if you want to actually win an engagement. | ||
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