• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:26
CEST 09:26
KST 16:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202562RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension5
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Server Blocker Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Simple editing of Brood War save files? (.mlx) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 680 users

How to Mech in TvP [D][G] - Page 17

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 26 Next All
BigBossX
Profile Joined September 2008
United Kingdom357 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 00:37:52
March 20 2012 00:00 GMT
#321
On March 20 2012 07:04 Everlong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 06:53 BigBossX wrote:
Ok my response is going to seem really negative and I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing but i think a lot of you missed the points I was trying to make

On March 20 2012 03:56 Norseman wrote:
To your point, BigBossX, I think he, and most Protoss, A+move into things because that's just how Protoss works. It's rare you find a Protoss who has good micro. They're so use to their deathballs and attack move that they don't know what to do when tactical skill comes into play.


I don't think it's a matter of amove vs micro, more like picking your battles and using the correct unit composition. In the replay I was referring to the toss just grouped his whole army of zeals stalker colossi and ht and just amoved into terrans natural on tal darim, terran was fully sieged and sitting just above the choke, there was no way in hell he was going to break that position and would have even struggled if terran went bio. My entire point was that toss (with a poor unit composition vs mech) just amoved into him for absolutely no reason. This is just incredibly poor and low level play, toss could have moved to his third and forced him to reposition, dropped in his main and forced him to split some of his army, or even just sat outside siege range (and stayed there because terran wasn't threatening any expos, wasn't massing any t3 or doing anything at all, toss had 0 reason to attack but still did) and denied a 4th until terran had to push out and then attempt to catch him unsieged or partly sieged.


On March 20 2012 04:32 Seppuku wrote:
On March 20 2012 03:56 Norseman wrote:
To your point, BigBossX, I think he, and most Protoss, A+move into things because that's just how Protoss works. It's rare you find a Protoss who has good micro. They're so use to their deathballs and attack move that they don't know what to do when tactical skill comes into play.


Right! And everything that is difficult about mech play, is what is difficult for Protoss to deal with as well. Dealing with drops, doing drops, expanding without difficulty.

Terran has sensor towers to see drops coming and respond with Vikings/Hellions/Marines. If the Protoss is cannoning his expos, he is wasting minerals. Siege him up! Dropping 2 tanks with 4 Hellions will allow you to assault the cannons, while fending off warped in Zealots. It's a costly drop, but that will force the Protoss to either waste warp ins, or respond heavily; resulting in great positioning.


This is just flat out wrong, I'm not even sure where to begin. How is building 3 cannons to save an entire probe line a waste of money? NOT building the cannons and losing all the probes would be the waste, especially when you enter late game and have 4-6 bases running.

On a lot of maps there just isn't the space to drop tanks out of cannon range and siege up, and all toss has to do is warp a round of zealots around/near the tanks and the drop is dealt with, or send a few of his beefy units over to deal, like immortals, colossi archons blink stalkers. I find the only way to effectively drop after toss has cannoned is to use a pdd or 2 to soak up the hits and just micro the hellions.

As for forcing him into giving you a good position ... what? Most hellion harass is done from a defensive position, as in terran is sieged at or near his freshest expo and sends his hellions around, if terran tries to distract with hellions and rush into a good position, toss just amoves and catches him unsieged/partly sieged. Gratz you killed 94 probes, but you have 0 army and he still has 100 supply of army left? GG

On March 20 2012 05:29 Faust852 wrote:
On March 20 2012 03:06 BigBossX wrote:
Interesting read, I've used a fair bit of mech myself but I notice you don't mention anything about ghost/emp. I always found that when you get into the lategame and toss ads some extra robos for mass immortal, and then also adds a bunch of archons it can get real hairy without emp (when toss has like 6-8 immortals and 8-10 archons) with a bunch of zealots and storm, they can eat through your army pretty damn fast, faster than you can eat through theirs, at least in my experience. what are your thoughts?

FYI I didn't read through all the comments (too many idiots/trolls on tl) so sorry if this already been discussed, but it wasn't covered in your edit.

Edit: ok just watched your 6th replay on tal darim since you specified it went to late game. Seriously wtf? what league was this, I assume that toss was at least 2 leagues below you or has NEVER played vs mech ever, he repeatedly scouted mech and didn't react until he had already lost (200 vs 135 supply lol) by making immortals and archons, he amoved into your sieged natural into a choke FOR NO REASON AT ALL, his expo timing was aweful. The list could go on.

One thing that really really annoys me when people make a thread about mech is when they provide utter shit replays against either a complete noob or someone who doesn't know how to play vs mech. Please post a replay where the game goes above 30 minutes, toss abuses mechs immobility by expanding everywhere, by making the actual unit counters, by harassing with warp prism/blink stalkers, doesn't attack into a fully sieged position INTO a choke with the WRONG unit comp for NO REASON, makes cannons at all his expos to defend against hellions and all the other shit that makes mech hard to play


I think Lyyna plays some topMaster/GM, and these replays actually show how bad a protoss is, even in top league. They just abuse of their power against bio because of collosi and HT hardcounter it without heavy micro, but when they face this style, they are completely lost. And until topGM, I don't think they're good enough to deal with it.

It's like now Bio with Protoss, it's very hard to micro everything,


This is quite contradictory to the point I was making, my whole point was that he put up replay of bad protoss who didn't react to mech play until the game was lost. It's not that NO toss below GM can deal with mech, but the replay showed a toss who just refused to respond. I assure you even master level toss WHO ACTUALLY RESPOND to what they scout can make mech terran very hard to execute simply because toss have so many good units to counter mech and sim city/cannons negate one of mechs biggest damage dealers, the BFHs roasting probes. It's really easy to win a tvp when you have double the econ of the toss cus he didn't defend against hellions correctly. But you try that shit vs a solid toss with some basic ideas of how to deal with mech, it gets very very hard.

Also I don't see why people keep bringing micro into it, toss still doesn't need that much micro to beat mech terran, just good unit compositions and half decent positioning and an idea of when they should or should not attack (if hes sieged and isn't threatening you in anyway plz dont amove into the tanks) and where to attack (hes sieged at his natural? GO KILL HIS THIRD) makes amoving over mech army a doddle.


Hey, you acutely inteligent writer, what about actually watching all of these replays? You would realize there are many were Protoss actually does everything you said and still loses horribly. You could save yourself a lot o time and my nerves..


Im watching more and more of the replays and still seeing these same mistakes over and over, its getting pretty boring, how about you point out which replays demonstrate good toss play and toss still loses?

But yeah I am seeing the whole point of bad toss amoving and getting pwned by mech

Edit: my mistake

Edit: Ok so I watched the rest of the replays Everlong PLEASE tell me which game toss did anything even remotely close to what I mentioned, because I didn't find a single one. Hell most of the games are won by the hellion harass alone, there are like 2 games that go some what close to late game, but still the toss plays like utter shit. Don't get me wrong it's a cute build and I do believe mech to be viable but this guide and those replays are a loooooooong way off proving anything close to that.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
March 20 2012 00:04 GMT
#322
Just want to say,i'm not the OP.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
March 20 2012 00:41 GMT
#323
Lynna dont worry about those people, just go ahead with the guide. There is ALWAYS people saying bad things about anything in ilfe, in this case, your guide. Don't worry about those people just ignore them ok?

You have replays to back you up too so it will be ok.

Hope yuo are writing the guide already :D
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 01:11:46
March 20 2012 01:08 GMT
#324
The biggest concern about Mech in TvP is that Protoss has such good answers for it throughout the game. In elementary versions of mech TvP, you kind of rely a bit much on the Protoss player making the wrong decisions (such as being unfamiliar with mech, so they make make the same units at the same time as they would against Bio, and that shouldn't work), and you rely a little too much on scouting "hidden" tech switches. It requires a lot of maintainence and against somebody that knows how to beat Mech, you'll have a pretty hard time unless you macro like a boss, transition exceptionally well, and know all of the right timings to use. Otherwise, you're kind of hoping they screw up.

Particularly, a 1gate FE into 2-base Zealot Archon (with or without Storm) will be fine against any Mech timings, unless you get a lot of work done with your Hellions and either thin his probe count or constantly weaken his army.

After that, a Protoss that knows how to fight Mech will see what is going on, take their 3rd a little earlier than usual, and go 3-base Carrier off 3-4 Stargates. Once they get 2 production cycles of Carriers out, and probably +2 air attack, they will push and you will need to have a lot of Vikings and other really nice supporting units to hold this off.

The other alternative is really fast Warp Prism multi-pronged attacks to constantly keep your army split up or out of position. You'd have to turtle pretty hard with PFs, set up sensor towers and be very active with Vikings to push this away. Again, a lot of maintainence against somebody that knows what they are doing.


I'm not trying to say anything like "lawl this won't work lolol", just saying playing Mech presents a million different problems than playing bio, and right now Protoss players simply aren't familiar enough with fighting Mech to know the right transitions and timings to get wins off a poorly ran mech build. I just hope mech (or, essentially non-Bio) gets matured to a point where it's actually a viable alternative in TvP. Protoss just has really good answers right now assuming they understand how to use them.

I should also mention that the presence of late-game BCs in this build would actually make it work really, really well. I didn't see any mention of it, but BCs kind of are the final boss of this build and would be hard as hell to answer from a Protoss standpoint.
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 05:09:01
March 20 2012 02:51 GMT
#325
I just want to know your opinion on the 2base timing tvp


I see two way to play MECH tvp:

2base timingpush, lyyna style macrothird


If the toss


2base immo: you can push but you need banshee+thors, dont make tank, You can 2basepush. (Virus v Huk)

2base chargelot: dont make tank, only thors+hellion. You can 2basepush.

2base chargelot+archon+templar: don't make tank, only thors+hellion+ghost. You can 2basepush.

2base VR: don't make tank, only thors+hellion+viking. You can 2basepush.

2base carrier: you can do a tank+hellion+viking push before, but when he got some carrier its better to macrothird and have some viking and fast transition to BC (lyyna build)

Protoss take a fast third: You can push with tank+hellion

2base blink stalker: you can push with tank+hellion

2base collo: you can push with tank+hellion+viking
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
March 20 2012 03:16 GMT
#326
10 supply
12 rax
13 gas
15 supply block
15 oc
15 marine
17 factory
18 refinery
18 marine
20 bunker
22 starport
23 tech lab on factory
24 supply
26 cloak
26 banshee(5:45)
32 cc
35 armory
35 reactor on rax
36 banshee
37 tech lab on factory
39 thor
45 refinery 3 & 4
51 raven
58 thor
68 banshee
73 factory
73 starport
90 tech lab on factory
92 tech lab on starport
114 move out producing 2x thor and 2x banshee behind
pull 12 scv

Here is that rough build order I lifted from startale virus. Its a 2-base timing that works pretty damn well.
Jacen88
Profile Joined October 2010
74 Posts
March 20 2012 11:37 GMT
#327
Lyyna,
have you played protosses that try to avoid engagements at all costs?
Like constantly attacking or faking attacks at opposite sites of the map, using blink and cliffwalk or air compositions to kill some production buildings or bases and retreat before you can get there to defend. Or by recalling their army in and out of your base.
Those are giving me the most trouble, in straight up fights you easily beat any unit composition though.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
March 20 2012 12:14 GMT
#328
I do often see them. Basically you need to take the center of the map as soon as possible,to be able to deny that by rushing into his army if he try to attack on one side. Sensor towers + PF at key points also helps a lot, and going earlier for BC helps too (they're slow by at least they fly). You can also respond with banshee/hellion harass to force him to focus on his own bases.
Also,adapt your bases to his style. if he's abusing cliff walk/blink, juste move your buildings away and build defenses there. 1 PF + 2 tanks + sensor tower make an attack on a cliff really painful for the protoss
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
DelugeSC
Profile Joined December 2011
United States96 Posts
March 20 2012 13:05 GMT
#329
How are you dealing with Immortals Lyyna? I just had a game where I had about 10 tanks, 10 hellions, and 20 marines and even though I was sieged I was overrun by Immortals, Stalkers, and Zealots. Should I have more Hellions than that?

How important are Hellions in a 2 base push. More important than marines?
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
March 20 2012 13:12 GMT
#330
On March 20 2012 22:05 Seppuku wrote:
How are you dealing with Immortals Lyyna? I just had a game where I had about 10 tanks, 10 hellions, and 20 marines and even though I was sieged I was overrun by Immortals, Stalkers, and Zealots. Should I have more Hellions than that?

How important are Hellions in a 2 base push. More important than marines?


I would say this is too late for a 2base push, Protoss will have too many units if you wait for like 10 tanks..

In such a scenario you really need to turtle up to this 200 Hellion/Tank/Thor + Ghost + air support deathball behind Planetaries and basically never attack if you miss your timing window.. Once you get all upgrades (I mean all of them), collect enough energy on Ghosts and Ravens, there is literally nothing Protoss can do but lose..

Also, Banshees are very good at sniping Immortals, but they eat up gas for tank production, so it depends on what you see Protoss is making.
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
March 20 2012 13:37 GMT
#331
On March 20 2012 22:05 Seppuku wrote:
How are you dealing with Immortals Lyyna? I just had a game where I had about 10 tanks, 10 hellions, and 20 marines and even though I was sieged I was overrun by Immortals, Stalkers, and Zealots. Should I have more Hellions than that?

How important are Hellions in a 2 base push. More important than marines?


versus a protoss who make immortal its better to make thors+banshee+marine, than tank. I don't see a window to beat the (immo-zealot)protoss with the tank. The best exemple is the virus v huk game.

If you miss your timing push its better to macro.

crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
March 20 2012 13:38 GMT
#332
On March 20 2012 10:08 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
The biggest concern about Mech in TvP is that Protoss has such good answers for it throughout the game. In elementary versions of mech TvP, you kind of rely a bit much on the Protoss player making the wrong decisions (such as being unfamiliar with mech, so they make make the same units at the same time as they would against Bio, and that shouldn't work), and you rely a little too much on scouting "hidden" tech switches. It requires a lot of maintainence and against somebody that knows how to beat Mech, you'll have a pretty hard time unless you macro like a boss, transition exceptionally well, and know all of the right timings to use. Otherwise, you're kind of hoping they screw up.

Particularly, a 1gate FE into 2-base Zealot Archon (with or without Storm) will be fine against any Mech timings, unless you get a lot of work done with your Hellions and either thin his probe count or constantly weaken his army.

After that, a Protoss that knows how to fight Mech will see what is going on, take their 3rd a little earlier than usual, and go 3-base Carrier off 3-4 Stargates. Once they get 2 production cycles of Carriers out, and probably +2 air attack, they will push and you will need to have a lot of Vikings and other really nice supporting units to hold this off.

The other alternative is really fast Warp Prism multi-pronged attacks to constantly keep your army split up or out of position. You'd have to turtle pretty hard with PFs, set up sensor towers and be very active with Vikings to push this away. Again, a lot of maintainence against somebody that knows what they are doing.


I'm not trying to say anything like "lawl this won't work lolol", just saying playing Mech presents a million different problems than playing bio, and right now Protoss players simply aren't familiar enough with fighting Mech to know the right transitions and timings to get wins off a poorly ran mech build. I just hope mech (or, essentially non-Bio) gets matured to a point where it's actually a viable alternative in TvP. Protoss just has really good answers right now assuming they understand how to use them.

I should also mention that the presence of late-game BCs in this build would actually make it work really, really well. I didn't see any mention of it, but BCs kind of are the final boss of this build and would be hard as hell to answer from a Protoss standpoint.

Watch. The. Replays.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
March 20 2012 13:48 GMT
#333
On March 20 2012 11:51 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
I just want to know your opinion on the 2base timing tvp


I see two way to play MECH tvp:

2base timingpush, lyyna style macrothird


If the toss


2base immo: you can push but you need banshee+thors, dont make tank, You can 2basepush. (Virus v Huk)

2base chargelot: dont make tank, only thors+hellion. You can 2basepush.

2base chargelot+archon+templar: don't make tank, only thors+hellion+ghost. You can 2basepush.

2base VR: don't make tank, only thors+hellion+viking. You can 2basepush.

2base carrier: you can do a tank+hellion+viking push before, but when he got some carrier its better to macrothird and have some viking and fast transition to BC (lyyna build)

Protoss take a fast third: You can push with tank+hellion

2base blink stalker: you can push with tank+hellion

2base collo: you can push with tank+hellion+viking

This is what bugs me about sc2 players lately. You seem to think of the game in terms of base count and unit composition, and you've listed this as if its the entirety of toss' possible builds. You have not outlined the timings for these recommended pushes, how you would scout that the toss has these compositions, or when you alter your composition and what support units you use.

To illustrate, Virus' push against Huk was not a reaction to huk going '2 base immo.' Its a two base allin build that is planned from the start of the game. Your post demonstrates a painful lack of understanding of this game.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
March 20 2012 14:02 GMT
#334
On March 20 2012 07:17 Banex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 07:15 Lyyna wrote:
These posts make me think that a mech guide thread would basically be 95% of posts saying it's trash and the writer is bad


Thats exactly what will happen. I made one about 6 months ago, and thats what happened. Even Jinro came to the thread to say I'm bad.

Looked up your thread and Jinro's post. He did not call you 'bad.' He explained that your 1 rax expand into tech opener is extremely unsafe against void ray allins, citing that if its difficult to stop void rays with a 4 rax opener, it is impossible with just 1 rax of marines (I've tried it, it is). He said nothing of mech viability (considering he used mech in the gsl against MC I doubted he would), he just rightfully questioned your horribly unsafe opener. He even watched your replays ffs

Don't blame the community for being intolerant of mech if you tried to sell them on a 1 rax gasless expand into 1/1/1 opener.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 14:19:30
March 20 2012 14:18 GMT
#335
What irritates me even more are people who randomly throw something like: "This doesn't work, because X can make Y units, which counters Z", etc.. Like, there are so many things that actually matter way more than unit compositions and the hard-counter style of play.

People in Platinum/Diamond will absolutely flood you with arguments why mech doesn't work and they keep playing bio because pros do so and they lose horribly and then they claim how imbalanced the game is..

Seriously, look at those replays, those are top master guys playing and they get absolutely obliterated it's not even funny. Maybe on the very top level bio is more viable, because those Korean Terrans know how abuse everything, but look how hard TvP is right now even on the very top level of play.

Still people will come here to say mech is immobile, you can't defend 3-4g Void ray, Immortals will destroy you, carriers are unbeateable, you can't take bases, etc.. I could make absolutely the same list of things why bio is not good - You can die in a second to good Force Fields, you can't engage once critical collosus count, you kite forever and can't macro properly during that time, you are forced to do damage with drops, otherwise you just lose at 15min mark, etc, etc.. Seems like Bio doesn't sound as good eh?

Then you see this guy Lyyna just sit there, macro up and fucking own everything - isn't this everything you wan't to do? Or do you really plan to go to Korea and make your living with this game..

stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
March 20 2012 14:19 GMT
#336
On March 20 2012 23:02 crocodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 07:17 Banex wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:15 Lyyna wrote:
These posts make me think that a mech guide thread would basically be 95% of posts saying it's trash and the writer is bad


Thats exactly what will happen. I made one about 6 months ago, and thats what happened. Even Jinro came to the thread to say I'm bad.

Looked up your thread and Jinro's post. He did not call you 'bad.' He explained that your 1 rax expand into tech opener is extremely unsafe against void ray allins, citing that if its difficult to stop void rays with a 4 rax opener, it is impossible with just 1 rax of marines (I've tried it, it is). He said nothing of mech viability (considering he used mech in the gsl against MC I doubted he would), he just rightfully questioned your horribly unsafe opener. He even watched your replays ffs

Don't blame the community for being intolerant of mech if you tried to sell them on a 1 rax gasless expand into 1/1/1 opener.



This is why you should scout to see if hes doing something like void ray allin(2 early gases) and adjust accordingly. Problem solved.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
March 20 2012 14:21 GMT
#337
On March 20 2012 23:19 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 23:02 crocodile wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:17 Banex wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:15 Lyyna wrote:
These posts make me think that a mech guide thread would basically be 95% of posts saying it's trash and the writer is bad


Thats exactly what will happen. I made one about 6 months ago, and thats what happened. Even Jinro came to the thread to say I'm bad.

Looked up your thread and Jinro's post. He did not call you 'bad.' He explained that your 1 rax expand into tech opener is extremely unsafe against void ray allins, citing that if its difficult to stop void rays with a 4 rax opener, it is impossible with just 1 rax of marines (I've tried it, it is). He said nothing of mech viability (considering he used mech in the gsl against MC I doubted he would), he just rightfully questioned your horribly unsafe opener. He even watched your replays ffs

Don't blame the community for being intolerant of mech if you tried to sell them on a 1 rax gasless expand into 1/1/1 opener.



This is why you should scout to see if hes doing something like void ray allin(2 early gases) and adjust accordingly. Problem solved.



Though I dont know if I would ever gasless expand while planning to go mech against toss.
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
March 20 2012 14:29 GMT
#338
On March 20 2012 23:21 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 23:19 stratmatt wrote:
On March 20 2012 23:02 crocodile wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:17 Banex wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:15 Lyyna wrote:
These posts make me think that a mech guide thread would basically be 95% of posts saying it's trash and the writer is bad


Thats exactly what will happen. I made one about 6 months ago, and thats what happened. Even Jinro came to the thread to say I'm bad.

Looked up your thread and Jinro's post. He did not call you 'bad.' He explained that your 1 rax expand into tech opener is extremely unsafe against void ray allins, citing that if its difficult to stop void rays with a 4 rax opener, it is impossible with just 1 rax of marines (I've tried it, it is). He said nothing of mech viability (considering he used mech in the gsl against MC I doubted he would), he just rightfully questioned your horribly unsafe opener. He even watched your replays ffs

Don't blame the community for being intolerant of mech if you tried to sell them on a 1 rax gasless expand into 1/1/1 opener.



This is why you should scout to see if hes doing something like void ray allin(2 early gases) and adjust accordingly. Problem solved.



Though I dont know if I would ever gasless expand while planning to go mech against toss.


It's just asking to get smashed, you need to be safe.. Protoss will get eco lead, but that's ok as long as you just don't die and take bases slowly with Sensor Towers. Of course you can go punish Toss the second you see some extremly greedy play (with hellion/Banshee) like super fast 3rd - you will hit this nice 2base timing which is really hard to defend. Other than that, your plan is to survive until the very late game where you just camp behind PFs and you starve Toss to death (as shown in Lyyna's replays). I don't think there is other way to play mech right now.. Funny thing in Hots we might see pros playing mech, finding proper builds/timings and Protoss can find themself unable to kill Terran like at all.. Then of course Blizz will step in to nerf mech again. :D
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 14:46:45
March 20 2012 14:39 GMT
#339
On March 20 2012 22:48 crocodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 11:51 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
I just want to know your opinion on the 2base timing tvp


I see two way to play MECH tvp:

2base timingpush, lyyna style macrothird


If the toss


2base immo: you can push but you need banshee+thors, dont make tank, You can 2basepush. (Virus v Huk)

2base chargelot: dont make tank, only thors+hellion. You can 2basepush.

2base chargelot+archon+templar: don't make tank, only thors+hellion+ghost. You can 2basepush.

2base VR: don't make tank, only thors+hellion+viking. You can 2basepush.

2base carrier: you can do a tank+hellion+viking push before, but when he got some carrier its better to macrothird and have some viking and fast transition to BC (lyyna build)

Protoss take a fast third: You can push with tank+hellion

2base blink stalker: you can push with tank+hellion

2base collo: you can push with tank+hellion+viking

This is what bugs me about sc2 players lately. You seem to think of the game in terms of base count and unit composition, and you've listed this as if its the entirety of toss' possible builds. You have not outlined the timings for these recommended pushes, how you would scout that the toss has these compositions, or when you alter your composition and what support units you use.

To illustrate, Virus' push against Huk was not a reaction to huk going '2 base immo.' Its a two base allin build that is planned from the start of the game. Your post demonstrates a painful lack of understanding of this game.


For exemple,
You plan to do a tank push and you see the toss got 2base immo. I would not push and macro instead.
You plan to do a thors-banshee push and you see the toss got 2base immo. I would push.

Listing possibility is having a great understanding of this game.
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 14:59:50
March 20 2012 14:56 GMT
#340
On March 20 2012 23:02 crocodile wrote:
Don't blame the community for being intolerant of mech if you tried to sell them on a 1 rax gasless expand into 1/1/1 opener.


For the opening, I think you can do a FE no gaz and transition to 1-1-1.

If you see the protoss don't expo and you think he will allin you. You can change your plan and do a big bio force with mass rax. And later go back to the Lyyna build.
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft744
Nina 206
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3913
firebathero 352
Larva 279
ToSsGirL 172
Zeus 83
Dewaltoss 79
Free 50
Mind 12
ivOry 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe300
League of Legends
JimRising 658
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor149
Other Games
summit1g5035
Fuzer 229
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick930
BasetradeTV45
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH237
• LUISG 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2151
League of Legends
• Lourlo1031
Other Games
• Scarra1439
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
2h 34m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6h 34m
CSO Cup
8h 34m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
10h 34m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 1h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 6h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 10h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL Team Wars
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.