EPTHow to Mech in TvP [D][G] - Page 14
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10338 Posts
Most are saying Mech does not even work. Really? Read the discussion, it has worked in KR GM ladder. That's pretty much progamer level there. (And Mech has been used by or against Code S level players such as MKP vs MC or that random mech player i talked about earlier who beat slayers brown and such) Also, people who are saying MKP vs Genius is a bad example is totally wrong. Mech WORKS. There is nothing that mech CAN'T deal with. DIFFICULTY is a different factor -- difficulty is only subjective and hence is only specific to the INDIVIDUAL. Now if you want to talk about viability as in that it works in BoX for at least 1 set, yes, it beat Genius. Yes, genius let a lot of hellions into his main. But don't you think that mech uses those runbys? It was his poor play that didn't ready him up. You can't just say oh, look, that one time he didn't block those hellions, so he lost so many probes and got way behind! That's the only reason why he lost! NO. If he were to prepare against all hellion harass, heck he should have had stalkers in his main or such, which would DETRACT from his defense at the front! How does he know MKP wasn't going to drop 4 hellions in instead, but simply run them from the front? Also the other thing is that this requires more thought (he obviously didn't consider it or took the risk of ignoring hellion harass possibilities) and time. Also, if you watch the game, you'll see that MKP sieged up WAY too late. That's why he lost that battle, even though it was only just barely. Also, if you say that MKP barely won in the end...? He was ahead in economy, so he KNEW he could keep trading units, even without ghosts. Sure he could have gotten ghosts, but it's not about countering this with that, it's about winning; MKP decided to rely on his economic advantage to just power his way through, instead of worrying about teching, which would put slight bumps and hills into his play. If he wasn't ahead, do you think he would have kept pushing with medium ish armies instead of turtling to safety like a usual mech player does? It was obviously because he wanted to trade armies and keep the Protoss army small. He also saw HTs and that means that Genius was at a weak point -- he lost a lot of probes (and later again loses several), and he could pressure him before he got that very expensive HT tech to pay off. Also, not to mention that attacking with mech is weaker than defending, which is the "best" behavior. Not only does taking initiative give the Protoss a slight defensive advantage via production, it also means that no matter what MKP does, he's not making 100% use of his Siege Mode. If he wants to attack he'll have to siege up nearby, in which the Protoss would come in before he finished sieging. If he's hopping tanks 1 at a time, that takes a bit of focus and APM even if you do it perfectly. If you hop 2 tanks at a time, that makes a small but significant difference in a battle's outcome. If he sieges up and then the Protoss attacks -- then that would simply be a silly move by Protoss, and isn't something that Genius did. Neither player played perfectly, but they are both Code S level players, and really, that should be all that matters to most of us. It is a built that WORKED, utilized by an humanely imperfect player, vs an equally imperfect player, and won MKP a game. His unit composition with his first push surely did work, and we know that if he had gotten EMP and played passively, he would have fared well composition wise as well. If you look at all those battles where the protoss did a decent job holding off MKP's army, it's cus of all the immortals. Guess what? EMP those immortals, target fire with the tanks, and it's all different from there. Once again, do not discuss VIABILITY or if MECH WORKS in this thread. This thread is to discuss HOW to mech. If you want to discuss viability of if it "works" then I would say, don't expect to get a response from that, because it's not the intended topic of this thread, unless you are commenting specifically on the OP's build. | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On March 17 2012 04:41 Gyro_SC2 wrote: How do you stop blink harass. For exemple: collosus+blink stalker attack the main. After they blink away and attack your third ...? Sensor towers, and try to intercept his army when he's getting in your main. He'll have to choose between fighting you while you're in a better position, or back with his main force and sacrifice his stalkers in your main. Yeah,i'm thinking about making a guide. but i'm afraid of the kind of reactions we saw on this thread . . . Not really a good source of motivation | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Thor http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marauder Thors cost = Minerals300 Vespene200 4marauders cost= Minerals400 Vespene100 4marauders stim DPS= 93,6 (on building) 1 thors DPS= 45,9 1 thors with strike canon DPS= (500 on 6 sec) 83.3 !!! Conclusion: a thors drop cost the same than a marauder drop, have a decent DPS and with strike canon its has more DPS than the normal marauder drop. Its too easy for the protoss to make canons and feel safe again the standard helion-banshee harass. Thors drop can be a new way to make pressure and you can always recycle your medivac for helion drop. | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
A good idea would be to get marauders with stim (as you have to get barracks for ghosts) , just a few, for drops. even without attack uppgrades. And with strike cannon, it's 500 damage over 10 sec (6 sec of firing, 4 sec of preparation) | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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TheTomato
United States40 Posts
On March 17 2012 05:50 Gyro_SC2 wrote: Does someone here think thors drop can be a good harass? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Thor http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marauder Thors cost = Minerals300 Vespene200 4marauders cost= Minerals400 Vespene100 4marauders stim DPS= 93,6 (on building) 1 thors DPS= 45,9 1 thors with strike canon DPS= (500 on 6 sec) 83.3 !!! Conclusion: a thors drop cost the same than a marauder drop, have a decent DPS and with strike canon its has more DPS than the normal marauder drop. Its too easy for the protoss to make canons and feel safe again the standard helion-banshee harass. Thors drop can be a new way to make pressure and you can always recycle your medivac for helion drop. The maruaders have double dps for 100 less gas, can be healed and are faster. Stike cannon isn't even that much if you factor in the charge up time. | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
On March 17 2012 12:12 TheTomato wrote: The maruaders have double dps for 100 less gas, can be healed and are faster. Stike cannon isn't even that much if you factor in the charge up time. Thors can be repair. and its the same time for 4 marauders stim to kill a pylon than the strike canon. And the medivac drop the marauder one at the time, its the same time as the strikecharge. I just try to think outside the box. For exemple: Maybe you can drop thors and 4helion in his far expo. With the thors you kill the 2-3 canons and the hellion all the probes ? Or drop thors and kill tech structure and fly away | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10338 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On March 17 2012 04:49 Lyyna wrote: Sensor towers, and try to intercept his army when he's getting in your main. He'll have to choose between fighting you while you're in a better position, or back with his main force and sacrifice his stalkers in your main. Yeah,i'm thinking about making a guide. but i'm afraid of the kind of reactions we saw on this thread . . . Not really a good source of motivation LYNNA, MAKE THE GUIDE! Go please do it!!! I would love to see another mech guide!!! | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
Its my 2 base push mech, its work in master league. Its in french but you'll at least see the build. | ||
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Sergio1992
Italy522 Posts
took a look to mech nice macro game.. the one against flaitropic... Problem is that this guy didn't counter what he saw, if he had Void rays, your doom ball would have been trash, but he got stalkers, that are hardcountered by your huge ball ;=) | ||
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
On March 17 2012 05:50 Gyro_SC2 wrote: Does someone here think thors drop can be a good harass? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Thor http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marauder Thors cost = Minerals300 Vespene200 4marauders cost= Minerals400 Vespene100 4marauders stim DPS= 93,6 (on building) 1 thors DPS= 45,9 1 thors with strike canon DPS= (500 on 6 sec) 83.3 !!! Conclusion: a thors drop cost the same than a marauder drop, have a decent DPS and with strike canon its has more DPS than the normal marauder drop. Its too easy for the protoss to make canons and feel safe again the standard helion-banshee harass. Thors drop can be a new way to make pressure and you can always recycle your medivac for helion drop. Also it takes forever to get to thors and strike cannon. Marauders and marines are good drop units because they build quickly. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On March 18 2012 03:01 Sergio1992 wrote: Lyyna, I watched one of your replay,"nice three factory push". strong in that game, but 15 minutes and the protoss didn't tech to ht, neither colossi, he scouted your composition but didn't answer properly... took a look to mech nice macro game.. the one against flaitropic... Problem is that this guy didn't counter what he saw, if he had Void rays, your doom ball would have been trash, but he got stalkers, that are hardcountered by your huge ball ;=) Protoss don't know how to answer mech I guess. They're not used to it so they panic. | ||
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