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[G] ZvT Roach/Ling Baneling "Big Bust" - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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BlackMTsidE
Profile Joined March 2011
United States32 Posts
March 08 2012 17:04 GMT
#81
I really enjoy your guides. I love that you think about ways to play zerg differently instead of just drone, drone, drone, scout, react. Good stuff.
Math.random();
Profile Joined July 2011
433 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-08 17:26:42
March 08 2012 17:26 GMT
#82
Certainly gonna try this build, since I'm having great success with roaches and lings thanks to your previous guide.
lhr0909
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States562 Posts
March 08 2012 17:35 GMT
#83
[image loading]

I am just saying that if you can get more drones before you plan for this attack, and actually drone up during the attack, you don't get too far behind in case this did not work.
No Pain No Gain
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-08 18:23:34
March 08 2012 18:23 GMT
#84
On March 09 2012 02:35 lhr0909 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I am just saying that if you can get more drones before you plan for this attack, and actually drone up during the attack, you don't get too far behind in case this did not work.


It's an all-in, you're sacrificing any kind of follow-up to maximize the chances of winning NOW.
I think esports is pretty nice.
lhr0909
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States562 Posts
March 08 2012 20:35 GMT
#85
On March 09 2012 03:23 Saechiis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 02:35 lhr0909 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I am just saying that if you can get more drones before you plan for this attack, and actually drone up during the attack, you don't get too far behind in case this did not work.


It's an all-in, you're sacrificing any kind of follow-up to maximize the chances of winning NOW.


I want Tang himself to say this exact statement and put that into the title rather than telling others that this strategy is not an all-in and you can have follow up in case it does not.
No Pain No Gain
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 08 2012 20:38 GMT
#86
On March 09 2012 05:35 lhr0909 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 03:23 Saechiis wrote:
On March 09 2012 02:35 lhr0909 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I am just saying that if you can get more drones before you plan for this attack, and actually drone up during the attack, you don't get too far behind in case this did not work.


It's an all-in, you're sacrificing any kind of follow-up to maximize the chances of winning NOW.


I want Tang himself to say this exact statement and put that into the title rather than telling others that this strategy is not an all-in and you can have follow up in case it does not.

Stated in the introduction of this guide:

Now I know what you might be thinking..."How the heck can you get that strong of a push at 8:20 without being all-in?" Well, surprise surprise, this IS an all-in build - You will not go beyond 22 drones with this attack. There will be some exceptions where you do the push and decide to drone afterwards, but for the most part this push is designed to outright win the game.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Carras
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina860 Posts
March 10 2012 07:15 GMT
#87
very usefull build to have, i use it in korhal compound (imba cliffs in mid/late -.-) and in antiga close positions!
before learning this bo i just improvised it with a lot of succes..but this is probably much more optimal! thanks
itsNero
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada30 Posts
March 11 2012 18:52 GMT
#88
This is pretty good actually, but what happens if the Terran micros very well,

Do you still go for another push or would you go back droning?
Drone <3
Bellazuk
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada146 Posts
March 11 2012 20:27 GMT
#89
Startale_Curious vs MaruPrime, GSTL match at 8:00 siege tank is done. So the timing wouldnt work if he wanted to do it so. Its not something u gamble on it I guess, u cannot be sure that at 8:20 , there will be no siege researched.
“The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 12 2012 02:05 GMT
#90
On March 12 2012 03:52 itsNero wrote:
This is pretty good actually, but what happens if the Terran micros very well,

Do you still go for another push or would you go back droning?

I would almost always continue spamming zerglings off 2 hatcheries while using any gas on banelings.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Hossinaut
Profile Joined June 2011
United States453 Posts
March 12 2012 06:00 GMT
#91
While normally I bash you for not accepting your builds being allin and always touting relentless aggression, I feel like by acknowledging it, the value of your posts is much greater. Similarly, I believe this style of attack is very strong, and while I may prefer to attempt ones like I see in the GSL, this is a good starting point. TY
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 13 2012 16:55 GMT
#92
On March 12 2012 15:00 Hossinaut wrote:
While normally I bash you for not accepting your builds being allin and always touting relentless aggression, I feel like by acknowledging it, the value of your posts is much greater.

Well this build is undeniably all-in (you don't make more than 22 drones). Most of the other guides I've done are based on the idea that attacking can buy you time to build economy.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Olsson
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden931 Posts
March 13 2012 17:21 GMT
#93
I really like roach/ling/bling busts. I always did the DRG one but now I will pull this out everytime i get cheesed by a terran I will follow this up the next game . Though I've done other versions and this is what I've come up with at high-mid masters.

The 28 roach warren. This is TangSC version I think and I like it really much it hits early and relatively hard though it's all-in.
The 36 roach warren. This is somewhat in between Tang's and DRG and it isn't as all-in but it is to drone behind and to regain map control.
The 42 roach warren. This is what DRG does, he often drones behind it and expands. Since you will have so much money because of your drones and so few larvae because of lings you will be able to expand very safely behind this.
Naniwa <3
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 13 2012 20:21 GMT
#94
On March 14 2012 02:21 Olsson wrote:
The 42 roach warren. This is what DRG does, he often drones behind it and expands. Since you will have so much money because of your drones and so few larvae because of lings you will be able to expand very safely behind this.

Thanks for the info, Olsson. I've seen DRG and Stephano do this build, but I don't have any replay files - do you have any that I could look over? I'd like to practice the style and write a guide on it.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Olsson
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden931 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 11:18:05
March 14 2012 11:04 GMT
#95
On March 14 2012 05:21 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 02:21 Olsson wrote:
The 42 roach warren. This is what DRG does, he often drones behind it and expands. Since you will have so much money because of your drones and so few larvae because of lings you will be able to expand very safely behind this.

Thanks for the info, Olsson. I've seen DRG and Stephano do this build, but I don't have any replay files - do you have any that I could look over? I'd like to practice the style and write a guide on it.


Yes I think I found some on some replay sites. Will be linking the replays soon checking them out again.

EDIT:
DRG vs MMA: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)SlayerSMMA_vs_(Z)coLMVPDRG/16345
DRG vs Strelok, not sure about this one I cant see the replay but I belive he did roachlingbling bust. http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)imbaStrelok_vs_(Z)coLMVPDRG/14378

Also I did see a game on Metropolis DRG vs MKP/MMA where he failed a roach ling bling bust vs mech in a tournament, maybe KSL but I can't find the replay.
Naniwa <3
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 16 2012 13:37 GMT
#96
On March 14 2012 20:04 Olsson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 05:21 TangSC wrote:
On March 14 2012 02:21 Olsson wrote:
The 42 roach warren. This is what DRG does, he often drones behind it and expands. Since you will have so much money because of your drones and so few larvae because of lings you will be able to expand very safely behind this.

Thanks for the info, Olsson. I've seen DRG and Stephano do this build, but I don't have any replay files - do you have any that I could look over? I'd like to practice the style and write a guide on it.


Yes I think I found some on some replay sites. Will be linking the replays soon checking them out again.

EDIT:
DRG vs MMA: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)SlayerSMMA_vs_(Z)coLMVPDRG/16345
DRG vs Strelok, not sure about this one I cant see the replay but I belive he did roachlingbling bust. http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)imbaStrelok_vs_(Z)coLMVPDRG/14378

Also I did see a game on Metropolis DRG vs MKP/MMA where he failed a roach ling bling bust vs mech in a tournament, maybe KSL but I can't find the replay.

Much appreciated. I can hardly even call DRG's Roach/Ling/Bane an all-in because, like you say, he makes so many drones first and is able to transition into muta/ling with a 3rd very quickly.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
OmyVi
Profile Joined February 2011
United States137 Posts
March 16 2012 17:08 GMT
#97
This has helped expand my play, thnx tang
| IdrA | DRG | Ret |
Hossinaut
Profile Joined June 2011
United States453 Posts
March 17 2012 01:52 GMT
#98
On March 14 2012 01:55 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 15:00 Hossinaut wrote:
While normally I bash you for not accepting your builds being allin and always touting relentless aggression, I feel like by acknowledging it, the value of your posts is much greater.

Well this build is undeniably all-in (you don't make more than 22 drones). Most of the other guides I've done are based on the idea that attacking can buy you time to build economy.


I feel like attacking to buy time to build economy doesn't have to be allin, however. I do the (I believe) rather common 7-13 roach rush off 2 base and ~35 drones in ZvP, and just forcing a reaction and forcing errors helps me a lot, but I play mega macro behind it, and I have a pretty good base for doing so having made so many drones anyway.

Back on the topic of this specific thread, if I want to play a more macro-centric style anyway, but want to pressure, how many drones can I get away with while hitting before siege mode is up? This may be a bad place to ask that and I see that you are looking to address this issue in a future article, but ~20 drones seems too few and and ~35 seems too many (I go 1 gas and then get another nearer the actual assault for bane count).
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 17 2012 21:04 GMT
#99
On March 17 2012 10:52 Hossinaut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 01:55 TangSC wrote:
On March 12 2012 15:00 Hossinaut wrote:
While normally I bash you for not accepting your builds being allin and always touting relentless aggression, I feel like by acknowledging it, the value of your posts is much greater.

Well this build is undeniably all-in (you don't make more than 22 drones). Most of the other guides I've done are based on the idea that attacking can buy you time to build economy.

Back on the topic of this specific thread, if I want to play a more macro-centric style anyway, but want to pressure, how many drones can I get away with while hitting before siege mode is up? This may be a bad place to ask that and I see that you are looking to address this issue in a future article, but ~20 drones seems too few and and ~35 seems too many (I go 1 gas and then get another nearer the actual assault for bane count).

I think there are two ways to make this less all-in. First, build the warren later like DRG does between 36-42 supply - this version gets early 2nd gas and more drones, allowing for earlier tech and 3rd base. Or, you could still build the warren at 28 and go 28-44 on roaches, then drone a bit, THEN switch to ling and baneling production with a second gas. This allows you to still pressure early with 8 roaches, but the roach/ling/baneling timing will come later which means siege mode could be done.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
kAelle_sc
Profile Joined April 2011
287 Posts
April 02 2012 14:32 GMT
#100
(Z)Stephano vs. (T)PuMa, 2012 ASUS ROG Assembly Winter, Playoffs Semifinals Ro4, Game 3 Shakuras Plateau.
It's all about the journey, not the outcome.
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