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How many drones is too many drones? - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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3DGlaDOS
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany607 Posts
January 12 2012 17:19 GMT
#21
Depends on how you play, if you cnstantly trade (loose) your army you can go 90+ Drones (with many hatcheries ofc), otherwise 70ish...
Hello Sir, do you have a minute for atheism?
discobaas
Profile Joined December 2011
225 Posts
January 12 2012 17:22 GMT
#22
Ret and destiny had a discussion about it during HSC. Ret preferred 90+-ish and baffled Destiny with it, who stayed at 65 or so. So yea, depends on your style.
you're wrong
Carapas
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada242 Posts
January 12 2012 17:24 GMT
#23
Here is a little guide sheth wrote about drone saturation a while ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=219257 ... It pretty much covers everything related to droning.
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
January 12 2012 18:00 GMT
#24
On January 13 2012 01:57 Vul wrote:
Show nested quote +
I would say that as Zerg, 3 saturated bases is the bare minimum unless you want to end the game on some wierd timing. That means you need at least 16 x 3 for minerals, 48, and 6 x 3 for gas, 18. 48 + 18 = 66. This is, however, not enough if you want to use hive tech, you need at least another base with full gas, so that's an extra 6, taking you over 70 drones. Personally, I feel 90 etc is way too much, it limits your army supply too much and since Zerg has the most worthless army, I feel you have to optimize. If you're Sheth or Ret and can keep minerals low even though half your army is drones, I'm sure it works out fine, but for those of us who already have minor issues keeping money low in the end game, I'd say stick to between 70 and 80 drones.


That's helpful, I have another question for you if you don't mind, how do you quickly determine that you have enough drones? Do you just go through and count?

Yeah, pretty much. What I do is simply box the whole area around the hatch, and quickly look if there's a queen and overlords there, then I subtract that number and look how many bars I get. 1 bar is 8 units, so you want 2 full bars of drones of your minerals, then about 4 more (½ bar) since 2 drones should be inside the gas. I'm just platinum though so I don't think it's overly important if I'm over/under saturated by 1-2 drones, so I'm not too exact. I box it all, estimate how much "extra crap" outside of drones I got, then aim for about 20 drones at each base, which should be close to perfect saturation.
Xorphene
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom492 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 18:02:27
January 12 2012 18:02 GMT
#25
Think 75 is a good number.

3 fully saturated bases and the gas taken at a fourth is great for T3 unit production.

The above example gives you 78,so yeah.
T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
January 12 2012 18:08 GMT
#26
You need 6 on gas per base, optimal mining on minerals is 16, plus a few more will give you decent returns and a nice buffer in case you take a few losses - If your goal is to take a fourth to transfer drones to from your main as it mines out at like 15 minutes (-+) then you should aim for like 60 drones, plus 6 per base you are mining gas at (should aim for more than minerals past early/midgame) which is 78 drones on 3 base. If you want to sack some on minerals, or build a crapton of roaches or something, you can change the numbers but 16 drones on minerals per base is optimal, and past about 20 you get almost zero gains, gas is always super important though.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Skytt
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland333 Posts
January 12 2012 18:36 GMT
#27
On January 13 2012 03:02 Xorphene wrote:
Think 75 is a good number.

3 fully saturated bases and the gas taken at a fourth is great for T3 unit production.

The above example gives you 78,so yeah.


I try to get to this, as well as getting the gas on any additional bases set up asap.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
January 12 2012 18:39 GMT
#28
On January 13 2012 01:56 Kitzz wrote:
Nestea said Zerg doesn't need more than 60 drones.


I think he said that only applies to ZvZ in explaining why Idra lost to him at MLG.

I like 75 myself.
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CryMore
Profile Joined March 2010
United States497 Posts
January 12 2012 20:20 GMT
#29
You can go up to 100 drones, stock pile a TON of minerals then make 20-30 spine crawlers in the middle of the map while you tech to broods. You NEVER want to engage army versus army though when you have that many workers.
"What wins? 3-base Protoss or 2-base Zerg?" "1-base Terran"
lhr0909
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States562 Posts
January 12 2012 20:23 GMT
#30
On January 13 2012 01:57 Vul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 01:23 Morghaine wrote:

Ret said that it is NEVER reasonable to have more than like 70 drones at any given time in any situation.

And we're talking about the king of drones here.


I think if you guys are going to argue about whether Ret said 70 or 90 drones, someone needs to post a link. Those of us who don't know are curious haha. Does anyone know for sure?


Show nested quote +
I would say that as Zerg, 3 saturated bases is the bare minimum unless you want to end the game on some wierd timing. That means you need at least 16 x 3 for minerals, 48, and 6 x 3 for gas, 18. 48 + 18 = 66. This is, however, not enough if you want to use hive tech, you need at least another base with full gas, so that's an extra 6, taking you over 70 drones. Personally, I feel 90 etc is way too much, it limits your army supply too much and since Zerg has the most worthless army, I feel you have to optimize. If you're Sheth or Ret and can keep minerals low even though half your army is drones, I'm sure it works out fine, but for those of us who already have minor issues keeping money low in the end game, I'd say stick to between 70 and 80 drones.


That's helpful, I have another question for you if you don't mind, how do you quickly determine that you have enough drones? Do you just go through and count?



Double click on the drones around the hatch. If you count 2 full rows + 4, you are good. That puts it to 16 on 8 patches and 3 per gas (2 is hidden in the geysers at all times)
No Pain No Gain
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
January 12 2012 20:33 GMT
#31
On January 13 2012 01:56 Kitzz wrote:
Nestea said Zerg doesn't need more than 60 drones.


I have a hard time believing this...that's not even full saturation on three base. 66 is a minum imo, upper limit is 90. Anything more and you are just insane or Nestea. In my own games, I find myself hovering around 70-75, which I actually feel is not quite enough at times. Perhaps 80 is good?
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
diophan
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1018 Posts
January 12 2012 20:39 GMT
#32
On January 13 2012 03:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 01:56 Kitzz wrote:
Nestea said Zerg doesn't need more than 60 drones.


I think he said that only applies to ZvZ in explaining why Idra lost to him at MLG.

I like 75 myself.


Yes Artosis mentioned this a couple nights ago during GSL. He was specifically referring to ZvZ.
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
January 12 2012 20:42 GMT
#33
Watching gsl, artosis said that nestea said in zvz you shudnt go beyond 60 drones.

Otherwise, the vibe im getting is that if an engagement won't be for a while, you can go up to 90 drones. Otherwise, 70 should be just fine, allowing for a good army supply
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UmiNotsuki
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States633 Posts
January 12 2012 20:44 GMT
#34
I usually try to drone as much as possible, really. I'll go up to a hundred if I can get the bases to support them all, and then I have to make use of the absurd economy that generates by building a bunch of macro hatches and simply throwing powerful, fully upgrades armies into the fire until they make a dent.

Really, I tend to make my strategy around my economy and not the other way around. Maybe that's not the best advice but it works for me
UmiNotsuki.111 (NA), UNTReborn.932 (EU), UmiNotsuki (iCCup) -- You see that text I wrote above this? I'll betcha $5 that you disagree :D
prowala
Profile Joined January 2011
United States147 Posts
January 12 2012 20:58 GMT
#35
As everyone said about, 70-90 is pretty safe, but once I get a fourth base, i can usually saturate to 80-90, then I can grab the gasses, tech to broodlords, and then drop down to 70, making tons and tons of spines =) By the late game stages, zergs are usually mineral sat, gas starved, so it's good to make drones based around this idea.
When in doubt, nydus.
snexwang
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia224 Posts
January 12 2012 21:02 GMT
#36
How many drones is too many drones?
Sorry, I don't understand the question.

Is it a riddle?
Catgroove
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden67 Posts
January 12 2012 21:12 GMT
#37
I would assume NesTea means 66 drones (16x3 on minerals and 3x6 on gas) because only 60 wouldn't make any sense.
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
January 12 2012 21:29 GMT
#38
Why not ? We're talking about the king of queen injects. He probably doesn't need more minerals and want more gas instead ?
Anyway you can perfectly make roach non stop, It doesn't really matter imo. I don't think Nestea said that it was a rule that you needed to follow closely...
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 21:41:37
January 12 2012 21:39 GMT
#39
The amount of drones you want depends on the time of the game, and what unit comp you're going for.


For example, you can bloat up to about 100 right before you go for brood lords. Once you're ready to start morphing corruptors, you're committing to a "slow" army so you need static defense, you can drop 10+ spines to knock your drone count down to something more reasonable.

I don't think there's a set amount you should just "go for", rather, each period of the game has an ideal number, it goes up and down depending what your strategy is. If you're using a style that involves a lot of suicide/reproduction, I think more drones is better. If you're using a style that involves a lot of expensive units you want to upgrade and retain, lower drone counts are better. Strategically using your "Bank" in the endgame is a skill even the best zergs in the world haven't truly mapped out yet.

Keep in mind, "Lower" means around 75 at lowest, and "higher" means around 100 at highest.
ebs
Profile Joined November 2010
16 Posts
January 12 2012 22:24 GMT
#40
I ctrl+click on my drones at each base to see how many I have. 2.5 rows is saturated (or 2 rows for a gold -- it only has 6 patches). Any additional drones move to a base that isn't yet saturated, or the newest base (ie 3rd on 3-base, 4th on 4-base). Typically, Z players want more gas than minerals, and mining minerals beyond 2 per patch is not as efficient for that drone. I'd rather take another base and put them on gas.

Times where I will go more than 2-per-patch:
- Saturating the gold to have 3 on the far patches, because the extra boost from the gold makes up for the lost mining efficiency of over-saturation
- I can't take an extra base yet (ie vs T when my mutas are out of position to defend or something) or my next base isn't up yet and I'm prepping the drones
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