EPT[G] PvP: Phoenix Play - Page 4
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Geiko
France2025 Posts
On December 24 2011 19:52 Teoita wrote: If i may ask, what the hell stops a 4gate phoenix build exactly? You completely wreck the people going robo blink against you and fighting you head on...should the robo/blink guy (usually me) just try to hold his ramp until the opponent expands or throws down a robo? When I started experimenting with phoenixes, I only did 2 gate Stargate into 4 gate / Stargate all-in. You are right that it's extremely powerful against any opener, but except vs immortal builds or colossi builds, I wouldn't recommend doing it because good play can stop it. Therefor I findit much too all-in to recommend it for standard play. If you hold your ramp and mass blink stalkers, you'll reach a critical mass of stalkers that your opponent can't deal with with only phoenix and gateway units. During the engagements, methodically focus fire the phoenixes who are lifting and you should be fine. If he expands before robo you can kill him, and if he gets a robo you can expand. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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SeriouR
Spain622 Posts
Thank you very much <3 | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
I find 90% of the time in PvP now, I reach the midgame with an advantage thanks to the phoenixes, no matter WHAT build he did. | ||
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Geiko
France2025 Posts
On December 25 2011 10:17 GomJabbar wrote: I watched through the coaching vod with Axslav and it really helped clear up things about the build. I encourage you guys to watch through this. Just the tiny detail of "if he expands early, add a 3rd gate while making phoenixes and all in him, if he stays 1-base, add a robo after 2nd phoenix and expand while harassing" makes things so clear to me. Really simple, easy divergence. Even if you expand around the same time or slightly later, the harassment should keep you even or ahead in economy. The all-in should kill any expand builds, unless they have cannons (a fast expand with cannons is probably the best response to phoenixes, imo, Axslav mentions he has trouble with that in the video). I find 90% of the time in PvP now, I reach the midgame with an advantage thanks to the phoenixes, no matter WHAT build he did. Unfortunately, going 3/4 gate phoenix agaisnt FE is like going 1 base roach/ling against nexus first builds. Very powerful all-in but can be stopped by good reaction from your opponent. If you scout the nexus early you're much better off expanding yourself and pressuring the front with units while you harass the main with phoenix. I would only ever suggest all-ining if you scout a finished or almost finished nexus and you haven't expanded yet. Also, merry christmas to all<3 | ||
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Crashburn
United States476 Posts
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soapyy.
United States103 Posts
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Craos
United States20 Posts
 Grubby's approach (see Day[j] #403) better as it keeps the pressure on your opponent through the entire game. I had this poor guy locked down so hard I expanded to his third and he never even managed to scout it - not because he wasn't trying (he did scout my third), but because I wouldn't allow it.If you can hold your opponent back to one or two bases, he's toast. End of story. Once you get four phoenix out you just sit back and harass until you feel you have enough colossi to 1-A your opponent and then you do (okay I did get a little fancy with the phoenix but I don't think it was necessary). | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:56 quillian wrote: Whats the best response to a phoenix/obs/dt play? I can deflect early phoenix harass pretty easily and FE safely, but when they are sniping all your observers aggressively, it's hard to move out without being stabbed by an invisible psi blade. Do you just have to get a stargate in pvp if they do this build to defend your obs, or just make a ton of observers and micro carefully? Im pretty sure phoenix/dt (assuming 2base) is basically weak to any timing push known to man, ever, so (i figure) if you see no robo units/robo bay and he isn't trying to get archons or whatever, you should probably just go kill him, trying to hit before the dark shrine completes. I would need a replay to watch to be sure though. | ||
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Geiko
France2025 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:56 quillian wrote: Whats the best response to a phoenix/obs/dt play? I can deflect early phoenix harass pretty easily and FE safely, but when they are sniping all your observers aggressively, it's hard to move out without being stabbed by an invisible psi blade. Do you just have to get a stargate in pvp if they do this build to defend your obs, or just make a ton of observers and micro carefully? If he is going DT/phoenix/obs you can go for colossi and have at all times 3 or 4 obs with your army. If you try to go zealot/archon or any "only ground" based composition, you will die. I'm watching the day[9] daily on phoenix PvP and so far it's really interesting, I'll add it to the OP when i finish it. | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
Grubby's style is interesting, I like the early chrono on stalkers to prevent proxy pylons. I really like the idea of phoenix play, but I'm usually left with a dilema: If you use the energy to kill probes, he just walks up and kills you with a larger gateway force and your phoenix can't do anything about it. If you don't harass, they don't really pay for themselves. I guess the psychological pressure and scouting is useful, but it always feels so fragile. | ||
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ceoftheyear
Canada31 Posts
in a sense this style of PvP mimics zerg's mutas, the ability to counter attack with ease and snipe off key units like sentries makes 1 base sg one of the strongest play styles, so I really hope to see more diversified sg strats in the pro scene. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
He opened with a really early second gas, I think 15 off a 2 chrono 12 gate no scout. That gave him enough gas to get warpgate and a sentry after zealot, and put down a stargate before the sentry even finished, and even get a second sentry straight away. I'm not sure on exact timings as I haven't seen him do it more than once, but it looked really interesting. Because he built the sentries so early, he had four forcefields and 3 gates coming up at the 4gate timing for only 200 gas. Versus another phoenix opening, he'd have more phoenixes early and so would win the air battle. Downside, of course, is that the second gas telegraphs it from a mile away. I feel like there's got to be something the other guy can do to abuse that, but I was still fascinated. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
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