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[D] Raven Auto-Turret in TvP - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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jrdn
Profile Joined September 2010
United States132 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-20 03:12:11
December 20 2011 03:11 GMT
#61
On December 20 2011 11:38 kNightLite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 11:34 iAmJeffReY wrote:
But look at any TvP game, how many tech lab starports do you have? Starports without a reactor leads to you losing to collsai. Tech lab starports + time to make 2-3 ravens...they just don't pay for themselves to be worth it.

And what knowledge? To be crass, you sound as if you are barely even into platinum with your theorycraft. Also, what's to stop you from using your armories to upgrade? How about the deathball of collsai chargelot HT, or ht zeal archon? How will you deal with it? When he's 3/0/3 you'll be what.. 1/1 on mech and bio? If you focus on upgrades, you won't have any units etc.

It's stupid tbh. And really? PDD doesn't even phase 20+ stalkers. 1 volley and energy is gone for 100 energy? Not worth it.

Because Ravens are a spellcasting unit, they don't rely on Armor+Attack upgrades like Vehicles and Ships. MMM has plenty of DPS, the only thing we lack for vs the Protoss deathball is survivability. Armor is important in TvZ and TvT because both races have many rapid-fire units. But Protoss doesn't have any ground units like that. Which means in that matchup, raw HP is the most important survivability statistic. Ravens bring 440+ HP to the field each (Raven+2 Turrets). Which is almost as good as a Thor, except its faster, can fly, provides detection, and has the option to PDD if the P gets too Stalker heavy.

Although to be effective you need +2 building armor, and 1-2 raven upgrades like energy starting upgrade, and durable materials and building attack range?

There is nothing stopping us from making more than 1 Starport. Just because it's standard to factory scout in TvP doesn't mean that everyone must do it.

A reactor is 50/50, a Starport is 150/100. If all you are doing with your Starport is making Medivacs and Vikings, there's no reason why you couldn't simply make 2 Starports without addons instead. It only costs 100/50 more than the Reactored version. You don't need to add the tech labs to the Starports right away, it's only if/when you float gas that you add on the techlabs to flush your gas into Ravens.

Besides, if you are TRULY worried about Collosus, you will need 2 Reactored Starports anyway. You should already have plenty of Reactors from your Raxes in TvP. So the only limiting factor is the number of Starports themselves.

Also, Autourrets do not need +2 building armor OR any Raven upgrades to be effective. If you actually read the entire post instead of the first line, then you'd understand my argument. :p Anyway, it's silly to invest in Raven upgrades if you're only making 2 of them. The point that the OP is trying to make is that the Ravens *don't* need to do massive damage like most gas heavy units in TvZ and TvT. In TvP, all they need to do is sink your gas effectively.


I fully agree. Many terrans feel like they need to get the reactored port so they can pump medivacs ASAP! because that's what the pro's do. Meanwhile they just sit there with the 4 medivacs and dabble in drops. I think having the second starport is a much better alternative as you only delay your medivacs by ~15-20 sec and then you have the infrastructure in place to effectively counter colossus (double reactor vikings or banshees). Additionally, if they are not going colossus you can easily throw down a tech lab or 2 and supplement your army with a strong air contingent.
“The sole purpose of an opening is to achieve a playable midgame”
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
December 20 2011 03:22 GMT
#62
Terran air does piss against a mass of chargelots. That's the issue. You're wasting money. And collsai in the late game fade away once change and upgrades are prominent as charge HT archon is a cheaper, and vastly superior army in terms of remax, health, and potential damage for cost.

Banshees take like three years to pop a 3/0/3 zealot, and therefore aid very little in TvP unless you go strictly air, or do a timing push before many upgrades occur, such as blink, charge, and or storm/ht tech.

Again it just ends up hurting you more than you know. It can be very useful in situations, and to be honest, I do it a LOT of the time in TvP if I can snipe a upgrade (Charge) before it finishes I will go into banshees just to harass with drops to draw toss away to stim push the main. It's just against chargelots in late game ravens and or banshees are a drop in the bucket when it comes to usefulness compared to other potential units. A banshee is 50 off a ghost. A ghost can actually do damage in TvP. A viking has 9 range, equal to collsai. It can sit in sweet spots and abuse terrain to snipe collsai. A viking can be double produced from a reactor starport, an easy transition.

The double port timing is a HUGE sink and leaves you way too vunerable to timing pushes, and delays units and upgrades. Therefore, expos are delayed, or you cut the upgrades and plain lose.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
December 20 2011 03:36 GMT
#63
The raven is a great unit in TvP. Frequently, in the end-game, the terrans will have an excess of gas and 1-2 ravens will definitely make a big difference. However, I don't think it's viable for current levels of play because of the multi-tasking and micro requirements. However, I think in the future, we'll see more pros use it!
E.H Eager
Profile Joined August 2011
United States227 Posts
December 20 2011 05:11 GMT
#64
This is pretty cool, although it seems very situational. Supply depots would be better to block the zealots, but obviously if you are caught off guard you can't just build them. It seems good if they are going DT, especially since you save scans, but I personally wouldn't get a raven just for this purpose.

aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
December 20 2011 05:17 GMT
#65
On December 19 2011 05:05 cive wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 04:49 MrRicewife wrote:
But.... where do you get the gas???


Good question.

From looking at OP's army composition, it is so heavily marine based that a storm or a colossus would've destroyed the army really badly. By allocating gas to marauders the terran army survives late game AOE damage from protoss.

IMO raven is a TvT unit. The gas dump just cannot be justified unless you are going 1/1/1.

but remember that even if youre pumping pure marauders and vikings/medivacs (LOL...) youre still only going to need 4 gases. On any pro terran stream, you'll see them taking only 3-4 gas even if theyre on 4 base just because of how mineral heavy MMMV is. adding a raven or two isn't going to hurt your gas at all.

to the OP: thank you for new ideas and innovation
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
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