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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 19 2011 04:49 MrRicewife wrote: But.... where do you get the gas??? terran units are mineral heavy, so course gas is in great ammount.. also VS zerg ravens can save you scans.. and PDD blocks mutalisk shots | ||
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sSoda
United States95 Posts
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attwell
United States220 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I have been wondering if I would see more Ravens in the game. It would seem like a really effective was to disrupt zealots, since they A-move and would go after the turret. Plus with 150 hp, 1 armor, turrets don't die fast and their damage is nothing to be ignored. Anything that messes with zealots pathing is a nightmare for the protoss player, since they are so much larger than zerglings and can block other units like the archon. Plus they are beyond slow once the charge is popped. Feedback would be effective if the turrets were used offensively. But with the HTs slow movement speed and the long duration on the turrets(3 minutes game time), they could be used defensively. They cost a mint, but carefully used, they could effective. I don't know if it would work in high level play, but as a protoss player, I don't like ravens or auto turrets. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 19 2011 05:11 sSoda wrote: I'm sorry to say that ravens, although they are cool, aren't very useful at high level play. They cost too much gas and are instantly countered by feedback. Also, when I'm on three base, I never have a problem spending gas because ghosts, medivacs, and uprgades are all very gas heavy. People always seem to think that terrans don't use ravens enough, but there is a reason almost all high level terran players don't make them. science vessels would like to talk to you about what you just said( and yes it took a while before people used them) and scan is ez but 1 raven could save you reasons to scan, and can do so much more | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On December 19 2011 05:32 Zergrusher wrote: science vessels would like to talk to you about what you just said( and yes it took a while before people used them) and scan is ez but 1 raven could save you reasons to scan, and can do so much more scanning is used for more than just denying cloacked units. vision is important as well. and ravens dont give u that | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 19 2011 05:43 radiantshadow92 wrote: scanning is used for more than just denying cloacked units. vision is important as well. and ravens dont give u that I'm talking about spells and usage, comsat had a smaller size, with SCAN you can't even fit the red circle used to use it on your computer screen, and the animation doesn't fit the true size. and a raven offers you mobile detection with your army | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 19 2011 05:16 Plansix wrote: And this exploits the zealots greatest weakness, their love to punch buildings over targets with less hp. :-P I have been wondering if I would see more Ravens in the game. It would seem like a really effective was to disrupt zealots, since they A-move and would go after the turret. Plus with 150 hp, 1 armor, turrets don't die fast and their damage is nothing to be ignored. Anything that messes with zealots pathing is a nightmare for the protoss player, since they are so much larger than zerglings and can block other units like the archon. Plus they are beyond slow once the charge is popped. Feedback would be effective if the turrets were used offensively. But with the HTs slow movement speed and the long duration on the turrets(3 minutes game time), they could be used defensively. They cost a mint, but carefully used, they could effective. I don't know if it would work in high level play, but as a protoss player, I don't like ravens or auto turrets. BTW turrets get effected by the building armor( making them have 3 armor) and the Hi sec auto tracker( making them have 7 range) ........... and with durable materials....... they can last for over 240 seconds | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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sSoda
United States95 Posts
On December 19 2011 05:32 Zergrusher wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2011 05:11 sSoda wrote: I'm sorry to say that ravens, although they are cool, aren't very useful at high level play. They cost too much gas and are instantly countered by feedback. Also, when I'm on three base, I never have a problem spending gas because ghosts, medivacs, and uprgades are all very gas heavy. People always seem to think that terrans don't use ravens enough, but there is a reason almost all high level terran players don't make them. science vessels would like to talk to you about what you just said( and yes it took a while before people used them) and scan is ez but 1 raven could save you reasons to scan, and can do so much more You're forgetting that in bw there was no need to make any other air unit besides the science vessel to make. In sc2, constant medivac/viking production is really important and ravens aren't a good enough unit to swap on a techlab and use 200 gas. People are also saying that terrans tend to float gas but I never have problems spending gas on three bases. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 19 2011 06:22 sSoda wrote: You're forgetting that in bw there was no need to make any other air unit besides the science vessel to make. In sc2, constant medivac/viking production is really important and ravens aren't a good enough unit to swap on a techlab and use 200 gas. People are also saying that terrans tend to float gas but I never have problems spending gas on three bases. you don't have to mass the ravens. just get like 2-3 | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
I think what you should do more than anything is try to position the turrets to give you a wall to one side so your bio is more protected from direct engagements and the Zealot-wrapping takes a lot longer to reach the bulk of your army. Say in your series of screenshots you set the turrets down near that cliff by the Nexus in a blocking fashion, it'd draw a ton of attention and eliminate a lot of Zealots' usefulness, because it's now both a target and a barricade. Also, researching building armor and Raven energy would help this strategy out quite a bit. Overall, I think Terran players need to be more creative with floating buildings and restricting Zealot movement when they are fighting Zealot/Archon armies. It's a battle that is all about surface area, but Terran players routinely engage in wide open fields instead of the way they would against, say, a huge pack of Zerglings. | ||
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Janders
Mexico222 Posts
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sSoda
United States95 Posts
On December 19 2011 06:38 Zergrusher wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2011 06:22 sSoda wrote: You're forgetting that in bw there was no need to make any other air unit besides the science vessel to make. In sc2, constant medivac/viking production is really important and ravens aren't a good enough unit to swap on a techlab and use 200 gas. People are also saying that terrans tend to float gas but I never have problems spending gas on three bases. you don't have to mass the ravens. just get like 2-3 You actually think you can just pump out 2-3 ravens? how can you keep up production of vikings if they go heavy colossi and if you don't get at least 3 medivacs for your army, you're going to lose. The only way you could possibly get out 2-3 ravens would be to get a second starport entirely. Ravens just aren't a good enough of a unit, too easily countered by feedback. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Someone here said it, and used Demuslim as an example (Love that guy) Yes the stim a marine or marauder trick is very effective for first engaging the protoss. If you get a few steps and volleys off of a studder ball and have them not close in, you successfully whittled them down. Sure, auto turrets do the same thing, and are free in a sense, the ravens are not. It's rare to even have a starport with a tech lab in TvP if you are bancheesing. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 19 2011 06:47 sSoda wrote: You actually think you can just pump out 2-3 ravens? how can you keep up production of vikings if they go heavy colossi and if you don't get at least 3 medivacs for your army, you're going to lose. The only way you could possibly get out 2-3 ravens would be to get a second starport entirely. Ravens just aren't a good enough of a unit, too easily countered by feedback. soo...... why not just 1-2, or even use banshees more? since there light units stalkers don't do bonus damage to banshees, and they can cloack......... ya know honestly why don't terrans use hellions all game round VS zerg? since mutaling usually uses alot of lings. why not get some BF hellions........... with a reactored factory. to roast those lings? its like....... " why composition? when i can eather go 1-2 unit comps?" its interesting how strong sky terran, with tanks is, also its not about going straight "bio" or "sky" or "mech". Compositions are deadly, for a reason, terran has the msot variation possible and unlocks all there tech routes very quickly. its like Asking a scrin player why doesn't he make gun walkers VS orcas and rifle squads....... ok you see my point. i mean if terrans tier 1 unit(s)( marines and marauders) can beat the snot out of tier 2- 3 units. why not? I'm just mildy shocked, its like why wouldn't you build sniper teams VS alot of Nod rocket squads if your GDI? speaking of sniper teams, lets talk ghosts..... EMP medivacs and banshees in TVT( i wish lockdown was back honestly, but the raven and the ability) snipe HT's in TVP. use nukes, or hey just build more ghosts for more EMP( sicne now EMP has the same radius as storm now) and VS zerg snipe queens, BL'ds, Infestors..... and ultralisk.... which is really game breaking VS zerg and remember how the infestor and HT got nerfed of the games progression but peopel still learned to use them?? snipe is probally next and probally will cost 50 energy instead of 25. but can still be used well, unlike how NP got gimped and is rarely seen nowadays. and since snipe is concidered a spell it ignores armor of bio units( aka all zerg) it only costs 25 energy for a range 10 45 damage no cooldown shot( A ghost like all SC2 casters have 200 energy(mana) max so do the math). | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
soo...... why not just 1-2, or even use banshees more? since there light units stalkers don't do bonus damage to banshees, and they can cloack......... ya know honestly why don't terrans use hellions all game round VS zerg? since mutaling usually uses alot of lings. why not get some BF hellions........... with a reactored factory. to roast those lings? its like....... " why composition? when i can eather go 1-2 unit comps?" its interesting how strong sky terran, with tanks is, also its not about going straight "bio" or "sky" or "mech". Upgrades dude. Terran upgrades are specific. Infantry only does infantry. Mech only does mech on the ground. Air only does air. Also, edit posts. Don't multi post. One - you can't type for shit. Two - you're not saying anything that needs to be bumping this thread Back to the point. Hellion vs any race all game take too much baby sitting. Hellions don't win in straight up fights, they win when micro'd and kiting. And terran T1 don't "beat the snot" out of anything once the other race matches upgrades with stim shells shields and medics. Charge/collsai, sling speed + upgrades and mutas? Look at late game, what walks over marines? Slings. Chargelots. Both T1 units. What stops them from 'running over'? Lings? Tanks. And lots of them, and micro studder steps and concave spreads. Chargelots? Bigger concaves and backing/kiting them for a looong time. | ||
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