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The whole point of trying to mineral walk is to aim for a surround, yet going back and forth in the mineral line opens the real possibility that you'll be fighting in a choke which is the worst thing to do.
I never recommend in the guide to mineral walk.
And I don't think mineral walking opens up the possibility of fighting in a choke... protoss do it just fine when fighting 6 pools. You just don't fight when mineral walking, and you know... you getting the whole surround is a great thing, and if you dont get it, just mineral walk some more. I'm sure you are capable of mineral walking just fine.
The guide is actually very simple, read the In short, sans explanation of the why sections at the end of each 6 pool variation. It's literally 2-3 steps to beat each early pool variation that requires very minimal micro. What's complicated, is the understanding, and what to do when things don't go perfectly (yes, holding it is easy, but maybe you forgot an overlord, maybe you forgot your pool, maybe you let the spine finish).
I'm sure I'll get complaints from belial as I did earlier in the post when I showed replays of how some thing he tries to do can be defeated. Also worth noting is the focus on 6 pool when in fact the 7 pool is much stronger.
Ah, now I remember you. So, you messaged me on battle.net saying you wanted to test some things out with me, not that you didn't believe me or wanted me to prove anything to you - you asked me to help you. You asked me to execute certain defenses, against the early pool you would execute, to see how it would hold up. Then, you posted the replays as 'proof' that my guide doesn't work, when in those exact replays, I do the exact opposite of what I say to do in my guide.
At the time, during the games, I figured you just wanted to test some things out, see why certain strategies worked or didn't. But then, you post the replays here and wave it around saying you proved something. I gotta say, your a douchebag, and anyone can watch the replays as realize that duh, of course they didn't work out, it's because I wasn't following my own guide.
Pull drones, a move outside the mineral line, win. If they dance away it's just letting you get your pool up.
It makes no sense why you think a-moving in the open is better then mineral walking through an opponent and getting a full surround, and not everyone has GM level micro like you do, you have to realize that this guide is written mostly for lower level players.
There is actually a lot more in-depth stuff that I did not cover - how to beat certain early pool variations without cancelling the hatch, how to tell the difference between 6, 7, and 8 pool timings, and how to beat early pool variations by using micro over decision making.
There are plenty of ways to beat 6/7/8 pools, but none of them are easier to pull off then the ones I wrote, and none of them are as guaranteed, and all of them require some degree of micro.
Also, you can't just 'a-move' if the opponent brings all his drones, nor can you a-move if the opponent goes infinite ling, as his rate of production is the same as yours and he has a 8 ling head start on you. This guide talks about an easy way to hold 6/7/8 pools, without having to rely on micro - not everyone is GM like you and is able to pull off your level of micro. Yes, it's surprising how bad low masters, or platinums, or whatever is, but I came up with a guide that not only allows low level players to beat early pools, but higher level players to beat early pools more convincingly.
By the way, I do talk about the differences between 6/7/8 pools, but the major differences in such builds are the decisions you need to make based on pulling drones or not, and making spines or not. You can't react to a drone all-in the same as infinite ling, regardless of 6/7/8 pool timing, but you do react to a 6 pool drone all-in the same as you would react to an 8 pool drone all-in. If you get into the minutia of 6 vs 7 vs 8, it would be wayyyy longer of a guide, so I came up with pretty general strategies that handle pools by variation rather than pool timing. Yes, I could talk about how to beat a 7 pool infinite ling by keeping your hatch, while against a 6 pool you must cancel it, but it's much easier to beat both variations using the strategies I came up with.
I encourage you to please read the guide more in-depth.
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^ Yes people, if you are GM level, or even low masters level, just micro. Otherwise, use the easy, micro-less, guaranteed strategies in my guide.
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I retort you are a troll for when you messaged me on bnet to help you practice, and then you post the replays as 'proof' that my guide doesn't work, when I don't even do what my own guide says to do because you told me you wanted to try out new things.
A-moving in the open doesn't work against all variations of 6 pool. It doesn't work against spines, it doesn't work against drones.
I'm glad you agree with me now though that you can hold all variations of 6/7/8 pool with hatch first. Your earlier posts claimed you could not, I'm glad you are now admitting you were wrong.
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No worries, I'm over trying to help and contribute to the people reading guides like this. I'll just keep the strats to myself and win more because of it. Everyone - Do it belials way, thanks for the wins.
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Hello there
I'm having a big trouble against 8 pool + double spines. The opponent is droning the same time. So, i have to fight, but i loose a lot of drone.
At the end of the fight, i have 5 drones, he has 14.
I used bosswalk & mineral walk. But the point is : i loose so much drones i cant win...
Do you have any idea ?
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Replay please. You should be able to win with a straight up a-move since he's not reinforcing.
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No problem. Here you'll find it !
Please notice i dont 15 hatch but 14 pool... So holding this should have been easier... But i just got owned ^^
http://drop.sc/193159
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On June 07 2012 19:47 Insoleet wrote:No problem. Here you'll find it ! Please notice i dont 15 hatch but 14 pool... So holding this should have been easier... But i just got owned ^^ http://drop.sc/193159
1. Your mineral walking was weird. You didn't select every drone, causing you to lose 3 drones right away.
2. I never recommend mineral walking. You would have had more success with Belial's Drone Floral Arrangement of Death.
I talk about double spine pools in my guide. At first you did what I said not to do - a-move, and pull 4 drones to attack the morphing spine like you would against a single spine. But then, you do Belial's Bosswalk.
It seems you just have a little bit of indecision here, that's all. There were a few minor mistakes, you could have easily held.
For example, because of him making 2 spines, he could only afford 8 lings. You easily crush his force with an a-move, and just when it looks like you are about to win, you select half of your drones to focus the spine. Suddenly, it goes from you owning his lings, to losing another 5 drones.
Then, when his spine finishes, you have a queen and a ton of lings. But even though you had enough to take down the weakened spine with your lings/queen, you chose to continue fighting with your drones, losing another 3-4 to the spine.
You weren't that far off in holding, just some minor problems and decision making. Need to be more confident.
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Ok thanks ! I'll try do hold better next time so 
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Belial asked me to post this replay of me holding off a 6-pool going Hatch First. (So yes, I have a good reason to necro this!) This is an "Infinite Ling" 6-pool. It's a very low-level game, but should be useful to Bronze-Gold players: If I'd been more decisive, I could have saved the hatchery as well. I use Belial's Floral Arrangement of Death to come out ahead, then just pump lings while maintaining a drone advantage, eventually closing it out with a ling/bling attack.
http://drop.sc/236588
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Really nice guide, will definitely use this, hate losing to 6 pool/6pool drones all in while 15 hatching on ladder, so annoying!
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^ What a douchebag. Thanks for bringing that up.
Here's a revised version of this guide I did. A lot simpler, a lot cleaner, and imo a lot better. I wasn't really sure how to post it so I posted it as a post in someone else's thread. Maybe I'll edit the OP:
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/SC2Z_small.png) vs
Hi. I'm a 1500+ Masters Zerg, who also wrote:
This is a new guide on how to beat all types of 6/7/8 Pools with Hatch First, as well as a few types of 10 Pools. The other guide was way too long, and too wordy. This is an update
6/7/8 Pool Drone All-in
+ Show Spoiler +Build Order+ Show Spoiler +
7 Pool, Drone
6xLings
Send All but 2 Drones when Lings nearly finish
@140 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick 4xLings, send last 2 drones
Send out a drone to put a spine in his base, then base trade when he arrives.This is because you want to plant a spine in his base as your last building, as spines can walk off creep without losing health, and if you screw up, you can force a stalemate by not killing his hatch. An extractor works, but a spine makes things much easier. When he arrives at your base, run to his base via mineral walking (If you defensively drone stack, then right click another mineral patch, then right click a mineral patch in his base or at another base before they arrive to the currently destined patch, they will stay stuck as 'one drone'. Rally lings, careful not to lose them. If you get out with 4+ Lings, you will win a straight up fight easily. If you get out with 2+ Lings, you will need to micro If you get out with less than 2 lings, you will lose without superior micro. Force a stalemate, or bumrush his last building, his spine, if he lets your drones get between him and his spine (15 drones will kill a walking spine quicker than 10 lings+6 Drones can kill the 15 drones) Getting enough Lings out: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-245929.jpg) Focusing his spine down because you didn't get any lings out: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-246521.jpg)
6 Pool with Mass Lings (with 0-2 Spines)
+ Show Spoiler +A 6/7/8 Pool with Lings rallied and may or may not have a Spine. If he doesn't make a spine, make 2 spines in your mineral line, and defensively mineral walk to protect it, as you will win any battle inside the mineral line with a full surround. But most people make spines, so: Continue droning up, make an overlord, Cancel Nat.
Pull 4 Drones to focus 1 spine at a time, and be extremely aggressive in the open, you will easily win. If someone does a 6 Pool with Spine, attack. Do not be afraid to be extremely aggressive - the opponent will not have enough lings or units to beat your army. Aggressively attack toward him, and then pull 4+ drones to attack the spine. If he makes 2 spines, be even more aggressive, as no ling reinforcements will be on the way, and you can definitely win the battle. The key here is really, really, really being super aggressive with your drones in this fight. Micro is also important. Use hold position on hurt drones, and if you just have a few drones attacking and able to be attacked (like going through a choke), box over them and mineral walk them to retreat them to the back of the line. Never engage in a choke. As you can see in this replay, I'm extremely aggressive against the 6 Pool Double Spine, and just absolutely crush his army, taking any chance he backs off, to kill his spines. Don't pull 4+4 drones per spine, only pull 4 drones at a time to focus a single spine at a time, and then with the rest of the drones, attack (if you pull 8 of your drones away, you won't win a fight). Simply work one spine down, then the other, and if he runs away, pull the fighting fleet of drones to attack the other spine. The reason you can't, say, just put X+1 spines in your mineral line and defensively drone stack and pool lings and wait until the spines pop, so you can re-root and engage, is because a 6 pool + Spines can actually focus your hatch down before your spines finish, and that just sucks. PS: If anyone is dumb enough to just attack your drones, defensively drone stack (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) and kill all his units. Sometimes you'll run into stupid people who will just a-move into your drones, and you defensively drone stack and they'll lose everything to it, even when they have a spine on the way (at which point you can just overwhelm that spine quite easily). Zero Spines ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-245922.jpg) 2 Spines http://drop.sc/240313
10 Pool Baneling
+ Show Spoiler +CheckPrime first showcased this as an anti-hatch first build, and after Nestea's 10 pool, this has since fallen out of favor. Still deadly, but beatable. Build Order+ Show Spoiler +
- 10 Pool
- 10 Gas
- Overlord, Extractor trick
- Constant Lings, Morph Banelings at opponent's base
- Morph 3 Spines in Mineral Line, a little bit spread out so baneling splash doesn't wipe all of them out easily (he shouldn't go for them, but if he does)
- 2xQueens
- Spread your drones very wellYou actually need to micro pretty well to beat this, as in spread your drones like a boss (you should see him morphing banes and start working on splitting right away). It's okay if you lose half your drones, with 2 queens, 2+ spines, and a hatch, you should be immune to further aggression.
10 pool Speedling
+ Show Spoiler +Nestea used this against DRG. It failed, because it can be easily held off. No one has done it since. Build Order+ Show Spoiler +
10 Gas, Drone
10 Pool, Overlord
Speed, Pull from Gas
Queen, Lings
2 Queens
Mass Lings when you see he's clearly 10 Pooling (Pull drones if necessary)
Block the rampSo how can you tell it's a 10 Pool that's pooling speedlings, and not, say a 14/14 all-in? Send that overlord you sent to his nat, to check into his main real quick. If a Queen is there, it's a 10 Pool. Or, if you see Lings flowing across the map ~3:00 (a 10 pool finishes around 2:50) without drones backing them up, and he isn't morphing banelings in your base. It's pretty easy to beat this. Now that you know it's a 10 pool speedling, you'll want to make a spine in both your main and nat (if he sends his initial lings immediately over, this is important, as well as when the speedling mass comes). Pool lings at your ramp, where him having speed won't mean anything, and hold position with your queens there, and eventually bring the spine from your nat, to your natural, when you see you can clearly hold the ramp. http://drop.sc/239613 Masses up http://drop.sc/239614 Attacks straight away
10 Pool Plain
+ Show Spoiler +
Curious does this from time to time.
Just defensively drone stack while getting Queens, Lings
If he only sends lings, do not run around in circles around your hatchery like Lalush did vs Curious. Instead, defensively drone stack in a recessed mineral patch (Belial's Drone Flower of Death) until your Lings, Queens pop. Pretty straightforward. Don't cancel your natural, just pull your drones and queens to save it if he goes for it. This type of 10 pool is pretty silly.
10 Pool with 8 of 12 Drones Pulled and 1-2 Spines
+ Show Spoiler +For a long time, considered the way to beat Hatch First with a BO win, and recently, seen as beatable. Well, what recent pros have been doing, like Jaedong vs Soulkey, would actually not work if the 10 pooler puts a spine in the natural of the opponent asap, and then the 2nd spine in the main. However, never fear, there's a way to beat it. Build Order+ Show Spoiler +
- 10 Pool
@125 Minerals, Double Extractor Trick, Drone scout for Hatch First
- 8+ Lings
- Send 8 of 12 drones when Lings are about to pop
- Make 1 Spine at each base of opponent or 2 Spines
You lose
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holy shit he's charging money for it. I have copyright over what I've posted, that's grounds for legal action.
-_-
edit: lol it's a straight rip, the parts about belial drone flower of death are straight in there. people must be like "who's belial? shouldnt it be shokz drone flower of death?"
and what do you mean you always thought shokz was full of it? does he have some history? ive never even heard of him.
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It looks like he's ripped off a couple people's guides, but on the other ones, at the bottom it will says "Source: link". wtf
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Wow, Shokz really is an ass 
What I would do with the revised guide is to edit the OP, put that as the main guide, but at the bottom put your old guide in spoiler tags with something like "Really in-depth look at 6-pool variants" as the label.
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Sir,
i lose 100% of games like this (early pool + 1 spine). The reason is the pool doesnt finish early enough to fight the lings arriving and I just lose mining time/drones. (This is from 13 drone scout, 15 hatch). My drones don't seem enough to fight the lings and the spine.
I may post a replay soon.
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EPT
